Problem Removing Starter on a '67 Electra

[Rob Gray]

My '67 Electra would not start (battery is fine, no click when turning the key). I ordered a new solenoid for the starter and proceeded to start to take off the starter. My problem is that one of the three bolts that secure the starter (the one behind the starter) I can't remove after hours of trying. I have the car up off the ground a few feet, but there is not a lot of clearance. This makes it tough to get at that upper bolt and get a wrench on it.

Does anyone have any hints on getting this removed? I don't think it would be too tough if I had the car in a real shop, but doing it with the car on the ground is proving tough.

[JohnD1956]

Do you mean the wires to the solenoid? If so I would take out the starter bolts and then using a rag to offset the back, tilt the starter foreward and let it rest on the tie rods so you can get to those solenoid bolts. Expect the battery cable stud to break the plastic housing on the solenoid.

Be careful on putting the wires back on the solenoid too. Many times the clearance is tight and one of the small wires will twist around making contact with the battery cable nut. when this happens nothing will seem out of the ordinary till you try to turn off the motor and discover you can't kill it with the ignition switch. If this happens choke the old girl ( push up on the choke butterfly rod outside the carb) to kill the engine.

[Rob Gray]

Thanks for the response! I don't have a manual for this car yet (it is in the mail), but by the feel of the back side of the starter (I'm working blind on this) there is a third mounting bolt. With the first two bolts removed, I can pivot the starter back and forth, but it is still secured. I already removed the wires from the solenoid. Your response makes it sound as though there are only two mounting bolts on the starter, so I'm not sure what is up. I'll try it again next weekend. Thanks again for the response!

Rob

[TexRiv_63]

I have no specific experience with this car, but on other GM cars I have sometimes run into a third bolt supporting the side or end of the starter opposite the bell housing bolts, usually with an L shaped bracket and attaching to the engine block, usually hard to get at. I have had good luck with a ratchet end box wrench as you don't need much room to swing it. Good luck!

[Guest brh]

Rob, ya gotta drop the pan covering the flywheel. There should not be a third bolt, but that stupid pan will hold the damn thing in, starters have to go down then out. Sorry about the bad news but the good news is its only 4 bolts. Put the two bolts back in the starter, just to hold it, drop the pan then the starter.

On second thought there is a third bolt on some starters, it should be visible as it goes from the block to a bracket on the starter. I have run into this a time or two. Only way is to unbolt it from the block, if memory serves you cannot get to it from the back.

[JohnO]

Assuming it has the original 430, I have replaced the starter on my 68 which should be the same. There are only two bolts (which use a 9/16 socket) securing the starter to the engine. The bolts are different lengths. The starter is very close to the exhaust.

My sequence for removal is as follows.

1) Take off the cover (4 bolts)for the cover. I think they take a 3/8 socket. It is in front of the starter and covers the torque converter.

2) I like to loosen the starter bolts a little in order to get better access (drop the starter a little) to the wires going into the solenoid.

3) Disconnect all the wires

4) Undo the bolts and take off the starter.

[Smartin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexRiv_63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no specific experience with this car, but on other GM cars I have sometimes run into a third bolt supporting the side or end of the starter opposite the bell housing bolts, usually with an L shaped bracket and attaching to the engine block, usually hard to get at. I have had good luck with a ratchet end box wrench as you don't need much room to swing it. Good luck! </div></div>

I've seen the same bracket more than once on these cars. Check for one above the starter!

[Rob Gray]

There definitely are three bolts with the third one in the position mentioned by a few folks in this thread. As far as I know this is the original 430 in the car. Maybe this is specific to the '67 model year. I had removed the flywheel protection pan and that helped allow the starter to swing more and freed it up somewhat. What makes this tough is that it is tight to get at and there is no visual or room to put my other hand in the space to guide the wrench to the right spot. This one is fun!!

Thanks for all of the responses! They are very much appreciated. I'll try the ratchet end box wrench suggestion.

[Rob Gray]

I heard from a guy who said that having the third bolt in is a likely indication that the starter has never been removed. He said he worked on the cars from that era for years and people never put that back bolt back in when putting the starter back on. That is likely why many folks only see the two bolts when removing their starter. I got the wrench noted above from Pep Boys, so I'm gonna go at it again this weekend!

[TexRiv_63]

I know I never put back the third bolt! Good luck.

[Rob Gray]

I got it off with a box end ratchet wrench with an articulating elbow. Had to buy a special wrench to get it out! lol... Anyway, got that job done finally.

[Rob Gray]

Ok, my lack of mechanical experience is showing. Got the starter off, took it to Pep Boys and it tested fine. I figured the solenoid had been stuck, so I put it back in and tried to start it. It turned over twice, and then nothing, not a click from the solenoid or anything. Tonight I took it off again, put the new solenoid on the starter and reinstalled the starter. It turned over twice, and then dead again. Any ideas? It just seems odd that it will turn over fine a few times after reinstalling the starter, but then it is dead. I'm perplexed.

[JohnD1956]

Have you tried giggling the shift or moving it to Neutral to see if it starts?

[Rob Gray]

I tried jiggling the shift, but have not tried neutral yet. I'll give that a try.

[Guest simplyconnected]

Rob, I'm sorry you went through all that work, but your problem sounds like a loose connection. That connection could be at the starter brushes, or anywhere in your wiring.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob Gray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...It turned over twice, and then dead again...</div></div> Take the back plate off your starter and look at your brushes. If they have lots of length left and and the commutator segments look ok, put a little grease in the bearing cup, and put it back together. If the brushes look short, or you see black 'witness' marks from arcing, replace the starter.

Go through your terminals, starting at the battery. Recheck all your ground wire terminals and connections. I bring mine from the battery to the closest bolt to the starter (on the engine). There is no such thing as, "too big of wire." Use minimum #4AWG stranded copper. Home Depot and Lowe's have it.

The very best wire is 'welding cable,' (available from a good electrical supply, usually one that services welding factories). Instead of the usual 19-strands, it has hundreds, (which makes it super flexible).

I made a set of 12-ft jumper cables out of #1 welding cable, and they have lasted over 25 years. They don't balk or get warm, ever.

[Rob Gray]

Thanks for the input Simplyconnected. I'll dig into it and see what happens.

[Guest brh]

This may be a really dumb suggestion, but if true will save ya a lot of time. You are assuming your battery is good because the soleniod does not click. By letting the car sit, you are giving the battery a rest so to speak. Thats why first crack out of the barrel she gives you a turn, then goes dead. This would not be the first goofy battery problem I have seen. Turn your headlights on, then try to start your car, if the lights go dim then brighten (when ya let off the key), you have a problem leading to and including the starter. If the lights don't come back too good after trying to start the car, you have a bad battery. And last but not least if there is no change in the headlights you have an electrical problem before the starter, because juice is not getting to the starter to put a drain on the battery. Hope this helps.

[Rob Gray]

Thanks for the suggestion brh! I'm going to look at it tomorrow. I'm relatively certain it is not the battery because the first thing I tried when it first would not start was jumping the car, but that did not help. I also ran a few tests on the battery like the electric windows and headlights and they seemed fine.

[Dick's '67 Electra]

I know it's a 15 year old topic, but the bolt on the solenoid just attaches the solenoid to the starter. Two bolts attach starter to engine: