Guest windjamer Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Just rec A copy of Auto Auction Shopper/Used Car News. March 3,2008.An article about forging papers and turning a 20,000 doller Chevelle into a $200,000 ls6. Should be required reading for all trusting buyers. Wish I could figure a way to make it public w/o trying to type it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Dick,A national publication is explaining to used car dealers how to swindle a buyer by blatantly misidentifying a vehicle by changing a title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 NO NO NO The article says what SOME SELLERS are doing, they did not name or specfy dealers or indiviguals (GOT TO BUY A DICTIONARY) Headline reads Forgery artists finding ways to falsify classic automobile titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Ohh.... wasnt clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I saw an ad a few months ago (in a car-ad publication) that was renting some kind of jig to do "genuine" serial number stamping on 1960's American vehicles. Do you think that was for re-doing faded or damaged body tags on show-quality cars, or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Jeff I am just a little cynical,But when it comes to car dealers I look only in bright sunshine and cary a five cell flashlight. Its hard to find a honest one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 windjammer...There is an excellent article in this month's "Sports Car Market" magazine pertaining to title issues. The article by John Draneas discusses title washing. The whole point being made is there are some very unscruplous people out there. When buying a collector car , especially an expensive one; with venues such as this one it is advisable to take advantage of the knowledge base available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Last July, we bought and are now restoring a '56 Lincoln Premiere convertible, for resale. The car underwent a color change in 1989-90 when it was last "restored." It went on to win big LCOC awards, before being acquired by a wealthy man for his wife. Wifey didn't like it, so the lovely Lincoln languished outdoors in Southern CA and deteriorated. The new body tag on the door-frame reflects its current color, Taos Turquoise with corresponding turquoise and white interior, with one flaw. The data plate shows the interior code for '57, <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> '56, and underhood on the firewall is a data plate showing its original Amethyst color.Making new data plates correlate to a color change is nothing new, and we're absolutely right to <span style="font-style: italic">thoroughly</span> inspect any old car before purchase. I use my Red Books and other dealer/law enforcement & insurance books to determine whether a car's ID (be it VIN, Serial or Motor Number) fall within the ranges used when the cars were produced, or nearly new.They don't have anything to do with color/trim changes, but can alert me (and the many others I've assisted on the Forums) to a <span style="font-style: italic">red flag</span>, or something else fishy. (As an aside, I made the data available to the detective investigating the stolen '37 Packard 120 ragtop that was recently, thankfully returned to its owner. The detective was grateful for the added info, as he didn't know where to look for numbers on frames, engines, etc.)The data therein has also helped me clear up glaring errors in VIN's of a couple of important area collections that have limped along for decades without proper documentation of the car's identities. We really need to bear in mind that number locations changed frequently, until the advent of universally recognized VIN's.<span style="font-style: italic">Caveat emptor</span>, indeed!TGAn earlier thread on <span style="font-style: italic">Red Books</span>...http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/65813/Number/267030 (third post down.)(Without going to the trouble of assembling such a collection, a good alternative is to carry a copy of <span style="font-style: italic">The Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1805-1942</span> with you when buying a car; it contains most Serial/Motor numbers and locations, as well.) I don't leave home without them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ex. reply TG thank you. I dont have a printer at home but im going to work early just so I can copy and print this info. Hmmm Hope the kids got the coffee made. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 You'll note that they are talking about a Chevy which in the musclecar world has the least amount of factory documentation you can get after the fact (like none). Fords have Marti which gives you the original build sheet for your car. Pontiac has the PHS documents.The difference in price between a LS6 with loads of documentation and one without is significant. Plus, there is a lot more to passing a car off as a fake then forging the title. If somebody buys a 6 cylinder Chevelle with a LS6 Title just because of the title they deserve to get screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 So if your wife, girlfrend or member of your famly lacking knowlage buys an item and gets screwed (your words) then thats ok.?? I think not. I believe good people need to help each outher. I like a buck as much as anyone, but I think a honest reputation is worth more than a fast buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Messing with a title for the purposes of fraud is a crime and I would hope that anyone that does that gets prosecuted.However, spending thousands of dollars on something that you know little about makes you foolish, and no, I don't have much sympathy for the buyer in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Pete, just wondered if you rec. copy of that artical I mailed to you. I thought it confermed a lot of my suspicioun.Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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