1991 wheel/cap color refinish question

[KDirk]

Does anyone know if there is a standard paint code (PPG, DuPont etc.) for the silver paint used on the 1991 stock rims? The 91 I just bought has some peeling of the clear coat on the center caps, and I would like to refinish them to match the wheels exactly. I may also eventually repaint the rims or buy professionally refinished rims so matching the color on the center caps is a must. Hopefully, this is documented somewhere and I won't just have to guess what color silver to use.

Thanks,

KDirk

[Barney Eaton]

I have two paint code numbers that I have given to several people that post on this site. They promised to try them and report on which was correct for our cars (1991)

As of this date, I still have two numbers and don't know which one is correct.

[KDirk]

Barney,

Could you PM me those paint codes? I will not be able to try them till spring (don't have a paint booth, will need to do it outside in good weather) but I definitely need to do something - the left rear center cap is all yellowed/delaminating due to clear coat failure, the others are all average at best and the rims are also showing their age (mostly just tired looking on the painted portion). Might repaint the rims if they are all true and have no hidden defects, otherwise I'll buy reconditioned ones.

It is my intent to really make this car top notch all the way around, inside and out. Right now it is better than any other Reatta I personally looked at, so I am have a big advantage. That said, my over bearing perfectionism is already coming into play, and I've had the car only 4 days (oh boy).

Gonna go get the stuff for a tune-up this weekend - O2, plugs, wires etc.

BTW - did you get catch info I posted on this car for the database? I can email it directly if you prefer.

TIA,

KDirk

[Guest MauiWowee]

One the issues we have as owners of '91 Reattae are the wheels and caps. They are very hard to find. The only other year/model with these wheels are the select sixties. As Barney said, the exact code of silver is still unclear. Mine are in good shape, but I would repaint them once we have the correct code. As far as the caps are concerned, someone here refinished some a while back, I don't recall who.

[Roadster90]

Maui,

No other model in the GM line has the same style wheel?

[KDirk]

Hmm,

I'm almost sure I've seen these rims om another Buick - maybe the Regal of early/mid 90's vintage? Maybe they weren't stock, and got swapped on. Obviously, the center caps would have been different but GM almost never makes a rim for just one car, excepting a lot of the Cadillac alloy wheels, which seem to be exclusive to the brand, if not a specific model or trim.

Hopefully, Barney can PM me the paint codes he has and I will be able to settle the question for the common good. I might also talk to a place that does wheel refinishing and see if I can persuade them to tell me what they use to match the factory paint. There's gotta be an answer to this somewhere.

KDirk

[Guest MauiWowee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nic walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maui,

No other model in the GM line has the same style wheel? </div></div>

Sorry, to my knowledge no other car ever had these but the Reatta.

[Barney Eaton]

On the paint, cannot find the service bullitin with the paint numbers, I think I loaned it to a local that was also going to get the paint.

1992 and possibly later Rivieras used the same wheel on the "touring" option. Their wheels may not have had the fake rivets but the color was the same.

[KDirk]

Barney,

I take it this was a GM service bulletin? If so, I will talk to the service dept at my local dealer and see if a copy can be tracked down. I would like to resolve this, not only for my own benefit, but for all others here who are having the same problem. If you get the TSB back, or otherwise find this info please do pass it along.

Thanks again,

KDirk

[Guest mongeonman]

1989 Lesabre t-type had the same wheels but not the same cente caps.

[Guest MauiWowee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mongeonman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1989 Lesabre t-type had the same wheels but not the same cente caps. </div></div>

No. They are not the '91 Reatta wheels.

[Guest MauiWowee]

All I can find is this obscure reference to the '93 Riv...............

"What's New for 1993

Gran Touring model gets larger wheels and tires from defunct Reatta."

[Guest MauiWowee]

I finally found it. I never doubted you Barney. This however was still a rare wheel. The 1993 Riviera production was cut short in Dec. 1993, and there were no 1994 Rivieras due to the early introduction of the redesigned 1995 model. The Gran Touring option was probably on few cars.

[KDirk]

Maui-

Ah, yes. This is what I was thinking of, not a Regal as stated above, although I somehow think I saw a Regal GS around my neighborhood a few times with these - probably swapped on for one reason or another. How deep did you have to dig to find that pic? I know several years ago there was someone I worked with who had a Riv with these rims. I remember thinking they were pretty sharp at the time. Didn't know then that they were nearly inobtanium.

KDirk

[Guest MauiWowee]

Yes, I had to dig DEEP for that pic. But now we know there may be additional sources for these wheels, as well as perhaps the illusive color code.

[KDirk]

Maui,

For future reference, there is a place that I've purchased refinished rims from before and was very satisfied with the quality. Lakeshore Wheel and Tire in Michigan sells virtually all GM alloy rims professionally refinished. Their site shows the 91 Reatta rims in both silver and optional white both with and without the "rivets" for $135 a piece - not a bad price at all IMO.

I may buy these rather than paint the rims I have. Still need to paint the centers though.

KDirk

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MauiWowee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I had to dig DEEP for that pic. But now we know there may be additional sources for these wheels, as well as perhaps the illusive color code. </div></div>Can't you take a good wheel with the correct color to your local Dupont automotive paint dealer and have him scan the wheel for the correct color. They now have a scanner that is a hand held portable device that scans the color and then downloads the data into the paint mixer computer. They get the color matched so close that I can't tell any difference.

OR is getting the correct paint code necessacary in keeping the car absolutely stock?

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

My reasons in not doing the computer match - at least not yet; I'll find that paint code if I have to bust some heads - are:

1. The wheels are no longer true original color due to age and exposure. While my rims are fairly clean, they will probably not get a perfect match to new condition rims this way. Since I will probably by professionally refinished rims, but cannot buy factory new center caps and will repaint them, the match is critical so as not to be obvious.

2. The computer color match is good, but not as precise as they would have you believe. I used to work as an equipment painter for an outfit that refurbed copiers and duplicating systems and we tried this approach to match the color of the factory finish on the machines.

Always had to tweak the paint mix manually 4-5 times after scanning to get it dead on. The counter guys at the paint shop all cringed when I would put in an order for a new color on a model we hadn't done before, because of the trial and error. Of course, we were dealing in neutrals (beige, grey, tan etc.) so the subtlety of the shades made matching harder still.

Note that this was semi-flat lacquer based finish on both metal and plastic, and we would replace some parts with factory new panels, others would be repainted so any difference was obvious when they were reinstalled on the machines.

Anyway, since the paint on these rims is metallic, this makes it even harder to maintain consistency. Yes, I am being anal-retentive but that is my nature. Something worth doing is worth doing right, as the saying goes.

KDirk

[KDirk]

OK,

I have a copy of the subject TSB in hand after spending some time searching alldata.

Actually a TSB with 3 attachments, as follows:

#53-17-03A / May, 1996 / Re: Aluminum wheel refinishing.

Quoting here:

"Color selection

If the wheels being painted were previously clearcoated aluminum, we would recommend using Corsican Silver WAEQ9283 for a "fine-aluminum" like look or Sparkle Silver WA9967 for a very bright look."

My take on this is that the original color of the 1991 Reatta rims should be Sparkle Silver, as these were painted to begin with, not clear coated aluminum (i.e. machined finish). I will investigate further with my paint supplier to see if I can make a definitive match before I commit to one color or the other.

The 3 attachments cover different product lines - DuPont, PPG, and Spies-Hecker respectively. Each has a different cleaning/priming procedure and the paint/drying process differs a bit for each.

Since these rims would not be the easiest refinish job (actually two different colors involved with the back outline inset between the painted portion and the machined beauty ring) I plan on having the rims professionally refinished and redoing my centers myself.

Hopefully, others here will find this info useful. I will report back when I have actually done the paint work sometime this spring hopefully.

KDirk

[Barney Eaton]

I think you found the same refinishing sheet that I had.

The question is which color is correct for our wheels.

I tend to agree that the WA9967 is probably the correct color but without trying both, we may never know.

Over time, I have purchased several cans of GM silver touch-up paint and none have enough metallic.

One interesting fact..... the wheels color and hub cap color on 1991 Reattas is not a perfect match. I suspect this is because the wheels were done by one vendor and the hubcaps by another.

I would suggest you give the hubcaps to the wheel refinisher and have them both painted at the same time. The company I used had no problem with that and did not charge extra.

I am sure I posted this elsewhere, but when I got my wheels back, the refinisher had painted over the black (fake) rivets and I had to correct that. Since there was clearcoat over the entire wheel, I did not want to attempt chemical removal or scratching the paint off the rivets.

I simply repainted them black with a small brush.

The black "stripe" was another challange. the refinisher painted over that also and did not replace it. After several attemps to duplicate the factory look, I ground the sharp tip off a hypodermic needle...polished the end to be very smooth and filled the needle with black paint.

By laying the end of the needle in the groove, and carefully "pushing" a small wave of paint ahead of the needle, I was able to make them look like the factory stripe.

[KDirk]

Barney,

Thanks for the tip on the black stripe application. I was trying to figure a way to replicate that if I did my own paint work. When you had your rims refinished, did they paint the entire outer surface including the "beauty ring" that is factory finished clear coat over machined aluminum? Seems a bit odd, but if the aluminum was corroded I guess that's the only way to hide it.

At any rate, I will research the paint color further and will post my findings once I have an answer.

KDirk

[Barney Eaton]

Yes and No

The wheel people deal with minor and major damage, so they start by check the wheel to be straight. If it has curb damage etc, they weld aluminum over the damage.

The next step...they have computer controlled machines that trace the wheel contour, then take a very small cut off the entire outside surface (of most wheels) which restores it to the original appearance, and if there was any welding, takes off the excess weld.

In the case of wheels like the 1991 Reatta wheel that has paint and machining.... if the painted area is scratched , they can use bondo or if the damage is deep, weld it up.

Because it is going to be painted over, it is prepared like any body part.

In the case of the Reatta wheel (1991) after the wheel is repaired and ready for paint, then the entire wheel is painted, then they machine the outer lip and that remove the paint in that area, giving the wheel the original machined finish at the outer edge.

I did not think about discussing the rivet problem with them, I figured they were in the business and had a system, which I was wrong. If I had it to do over, I would talk to them about some way of covering the rivets before they were painted...... simply putting tape over the hole would work because, when they go to the machining step, the machine would peel off the tape and the rivets would look like they came from the factory.

[Guest craig hewitt]

barney are there aftermarket center caps for 91 i thought i saw something about that before i bought three of them i mean cars craig hewitt in mi

[Guest MauiWowee]

It should be that easy.

[Barney Eaton]

Not really aftermarket..... I make a "clone".

I take a production GM hub cap from another car that is the correct diameter, height, and color (GM used the same color on other wheels) I machine a hole in the center that takes the Reatta "R" logo......BAM, I have a 1991 Reatta clone.

Attached is a photo of an original and my "clone" and without turning them over, you cannot tell the difference.

[KDirk]

Barney,

Very slick! Are you willing to do this for a price? I ask because I wouldn't mind having some spares (1 or 2) just in case. I could track down the emblems and would gladly pay you to do this if you were so inclined.

I am wondering how you get the sunburst off without damage though. These are applied to the center with silicone or RTV and the color layer is only protected by a thin layer of silver paint on the back to prevent moisture intrusion. Pry 'em off and you can easily pull of the protective paint and the internal color; using any chemical to soften the adhesive would also be disastrous to the emblem. You must have some magic trick!

Please disclose your technique!

KDirk

[Barney Eaton]

Getting the emblem off is tricky, I have never had the backing come off the emblem. I suggested in anoter posting to soak the caps in very warm water and it was reported that this helped.

On the 1988-90 style wheel you must pry from the front, it would be nice to have 3-4 hands but start with small screwdriver and carefully lift the logo. (Carefully means you may need to put tape on the hub cap and even the screwdriver to avoid scratching or denting the cap)

As you get a gap, slip in a larger screwdriver or plastic putty knife/paint scraper... I have a 1" plastic putty knife that I have cut in half...making it a 1/2" wide.

On the 1991 style, there are two holes in the back. Using a dull round rod, push on the emblem from behind.

For installing the emblems, I exclusively use clear silicone rubber sealant. It sticks like crazy and never gets hard..... something like epoxy is too brittle and cannot take the road shock.

[Guest craig hewitt]

are the centers the same as a 88-90 and what hub cap are you using i have spares and would like to try for myself looks great