Status of '29 645 Sport Coupe Restoration Project

[34PackardRoadsta]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I would switch out the reflectors to prove to myself, but It's just Too much Trouble. </div></div>

Ah, but you know you will. Curiosity always gets the cat .

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Maybe I'll try it after I get the bumpers completed.

I ran the battery down trying to get the lights adjusted this time, so I need to let it recharge a little anyway.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I got the welding completed on the bumper bars and smoothed the welds with grinder. They look Good and the end holes even line up like they should.

But now the problem is that even New steel is Not smooth enough for plating, so now I'm Back to Sanding Again.

At least there will be less sanding than the Old bumper.

I'll harden/temper them after sanding.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The cost of Chrome-plating is getting Rediculous!!!

Today, I got a quote of $700. just to do the 4 bumper bars.

And that's with me doing most of the sanding work.

That's about double what is was for the last set I had done.

I realize these need to look good on the back side also, but doubling the price because of that, is just Too much.

We are still negotiating a price, so maybe I can get them down some.

[Restorer32]

$700 for 4 bumper bars is cheap.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$700 for 4 bumper bars is cheap. </div></div>

If you are trying to make me Feel better, It's Not working!

I'll be sure to show your comment to my wife, when she sees the Bill. Or maybe I should Hide the Bill, and Not let her know. LOL

[34PackardRoadsta]

You could tell her you bought jewelry, but by the time you got it home it had metamorphosed into bumpers .

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Somehow I don't think that would work this time, Since it didn't the First few times I tried it.

[West Peterson]

I see many show cars where the back of the bumper is painted metallic silver, sometimes black, and sometimes chassis color. Although not correct, it looks pretty nice. The metallic silver shows up the least, as long as you use very small metallic particles.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, I considered that, after hearing the cost, but I just couldn't Sleep at Night, knowing I didn't do the 'Best I Could'. Hey, it's Only Money.

[tbirdman]

Negotiating with a plater...hopefully they won't raise the price on you

Have you tried sending it out of the country like Canada or Mexico?

The cost of plating is another reason why people should restore the more expensive car you can as they can afford as the cost of plating and paint (for the same quality) costs the same on a cheap car vs. an expensive car.

Or you can use West's suggestion and use Arkansas chrome

Ken

[West Peterson]

Hey. Next time you're at Pebble Beach, take a close look at the backs of some of the bumpers of the "best restored cars in the world," and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Tom M]

How can the back not get chromed?

Is it not all dipped in the same vate?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: West Peterson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see many show cars where the back of the bumper is painted metallic silver, sometimes black, and sometimes chassis color. Although not correct, it looks pretty nice. The metallic silver shows up the least, as long as you use very small metallic particles. </div></div>

So that is why the back of my bumpers aren't shinny

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can the back not get chromed?

Is it not all dipped in the same vate?</div></div>

It All depends on how Clean and Smooth the surface is, before putting it in the Vat. If the bare metal is not polished, it won't look good. The first layer of copper will only fill in very shallow scratches and defects. Or at least that's all the platers are willing to do, with their expensive Copper.

[West Peterson]

Also has to do with the electrode that goes into the vat and where it is positioned. In order to plate the inside surface of items, you have to have the electrode going into that area. For a flat bumper (mostly) like yours, though, it shouldn't be that big of a deal getting the inside nice. However, I don't think that the back-side of the bumpers was done all that well from the factory, so you also run the risk (ooooohh) of over restoring.

[34PackardRoadsta]

How about wrapping the metal with aluminum foil? People are always commenting how nice and shiny my hat looks.

T

[Restorer32]

The problem is, the back of the bumper sucks up just as much copper, nickle and chrome as the front. Only cost differential is the polishing labor. Material cost is the same whether it's left rough or is made purty. I suspect you don't save as much as you think doing the sanding and polishing yourself.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I suspect you don't save as much as you think doing the sanding and polishing yourself. </div></div>

I've been dealing with the same guy for years. In the past when I took parts to him I got quotes for both in the unsanded and after I sanded. There is always a big difference in the cost. He wanted $475. to do the 2 original bumper bars, before sanding, and $350. after I sanded them. They were in very Rusty, pitted condition.

What I do is straighten and fill any dents, grind and sand to get out the pits, then they do the final polishing.

I don't know if all platers will do the same deals, but he does.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the back of the bumper sucks up just as much copper, nickle and chrome as the front. Only cost differential is the polishing labor. Material cost is the same whether it's left rough or is made purty. </div></div>

Yes, I agree, It's only the smoothness that makes the difference. The distance from electrodes doesn't matter, since both the front and back are covered with the same amount of plating metal, as long as there's not something blocking the flow around it.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about wrapping the metal with aluminum foil? People are always commenting how nice and shiny my hat looks. </div></div>

Is it on your hat to keep out the Cosmic-Rays, or to Block CIA mind control ???

[34PackardRoadsta]

Cosmic rays????? Ah, crap, another thing to worry about.

T

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Oh, I forgot to mention, sanding your own parts, to be plated, Does cost time and effort.

But it IS very 'Good Excercise'. And Excercise is a Good Thing.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Well, I only got him down to $660. on the 4 bumper-bars plating.

Guess I'll be eating less Steak for a couple months.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I still have not found anything that describes how the '29s headlights change light pattern and focal-point, when switching from high to low beam, since both filaments are in the same place with no moving parts ???

Oh well, I guess it's Just Magic!

[34PackardRoadsta]

My understanding of Fresnel lenses isn't great, but I am pretty sure you need to make sure the position of the bulb relative to the center of the lens is correct and that the lens is in the correct orientation. Any chance you lens is sitting the housing at a wonky angle?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I understand that, It's how the beam moves and changes shape is the question? The reflector, bulb or lense Does Not move or change, so how does the light beam move and change ?

The only thing that changes is the Brightness of the bulb.

[34PackardRoadsta]

If the filaments are only slightly separated, you can still get differential refraction. So, nothing needs to move if an extra source of light is added but slightly displaced vertically from the first source of light. Look at the light that works and see if the lens is any different in position relative to the filaments.

[jrbartlett]

To help understand how it works, imagine a straight line from the low-beam filament through the center of the lens, and extended out 100 feet. Now, imagine another line, from the high-beam filament, extending through the center of the lens and out 100 feet. The filament ends of the two lines would only be what, 1/8th inch or less apart? But out at the other end, 100 feet away, the difference would be multiplied many times over. Have you verified that one filament lights up when the switch is on low beam, and then goes out while the other filament lights up when the switch is on high beam? Both filaments should not be on at the same time. Incidentally, on the '29 Super 8 sedan we had when I was a kid, the switch sequence was off-park-low-high. On the '29 roadster I have now, it is off-park-high-low. In the latter case, I think then restorer connected the wires wrong.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Even tho the lense changes the final required shape of the beam greatly, the shape of the beam changes with the lense 'Removed'. Beam change is effected by brightness Only, when lense is removed.

The filaments are Very close together and are side by side (vertical not horizontal), so the position of the filaments can Not move the beam up and down. Filaments positions in reflector could Only effect movement left and right, and they Don't do that.

[Tom M]

Just buy some halogen bulbs and you should be good to go

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just buy some halogen bulbs and you should be good to go </div></div>

Hey, Great, I never even Considered That!

Naw, I could Never do that.

Like I said, I never drive them at night anyway.

I was just curious 'How the Dang Thang Works ?'

And determining how complicated things Work is my Favorite Hobby.

[jrbartlett]

I will see my '29 roadster this weekend, and will pull a lens off and check the orientation of the filaments.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Okay, I've also found that there is another difference in headlights used on Standard-8 than the ones I'm using on the 645, which I think are Super-8 headlights (I got them on eBay).

The difference is the way the reflector mounts. In Standard-8 the reflector is held in by several spring-clips in bezel-ring and in Super-8 the reflector is held onto the outer housing by 2 finger-clip (1 at top and 1 at bottom).

The Super-8 type is much easier to disassemble and since the Standard-8 is very difficult, (with the dang V shaped spring-clips), I haven't taken mine apart to compare it.

BTW- the lights on my 626, change high & low beam positions, on both sides, like they should.

[jrbartlett]

Checked out my roadster's headlights today. The filaments in the bulbs are horizontal. The top one lights for low beam, and the bottom one lights for high beam. Only one filament is on at a time. With the lens off the headlight, the light pattern appears circular. It flattens to a horizontal shape when you put the lens back on. The bulb is a 50/32 candlepower (for high/low beams). If I remember correctly, I found some 50/50 candlepower bulbs at Hershey a few years ago and use them in my Auburn.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Thanks for the Info James.

How is the reflector mounted in your lights? With spring-clips in bezel or to the outer housing at top and bottom?

I'm starting to think the lights I'm using are not really from a '29 Super-8 Packard. Even tho they fit the bracket-bar and have same shape externally, I'm finding too many differences internally. But they Do work Okay, except that one is different than the other for some reason.

I'm certainly not going to buy any more lights, since I just had these rechromed, so I'm not gonna worry with it anymore, for now.

Maybe someday when I don't have anything else to do, I'll try again to figure out what's happenin'.

[jrbartlett]

Sorry, I did not look at the reflector mountings. Is it possible for you to rotate the bulb socket on the reflector?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

No, the sockets are mounted to adjustment assembly and can not be rotated 90deg, Only 180deg. I Know the problem with the right one is not bulb filament orintation, since they are both the same orintation.

When you took the lense and bezel off, did the reflector stay on the housing or did it come off with the lense and bezel?

If the reflector came off with the lense, then it uses spring-clips, like the lights on my 626 are made, which I know are original.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I've not been able to find Bolts for the ends of Bumper-bars. (The ones that hold the upper and lower bars together, with a spacer in the middle). They have a very flat rounded head with screwdriver slot. (1/2" to 9/16" bolts)

(I called Henry Yeska and he didn't have any).

I could grind and modify the head of ordinary bolts and have them plated, but that's just too much work and money for the small change in looks.

So I've desided to use SS threaded rods (all-thread) with SS nuts and chrome covers, on both top and bottom.

Unless someone knows where I can get 4 of them, that look more like originals and don't need plating, at a desent price ???

I really like having the Stainless-steel bolts and nuts tho.

[jrbartlett]

Why not use a stainless steel bolt, then grind down the head and saw in a scredriver slot? Then you could polish the stainless. I've done this on some smaller applications than the bumper ends.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I checked at a local bolt supplier that has SS bolts and nuts, (that's where I got the all-thread rod), but they didn't have any the correct size and length in stainless. That's another advantage of the all-thread, you can cut it to any length you need.

If I found some, it sure would take a lot of work to make those heads look good, but I may try it later. Only experienced Packard owners will know the difference anyway and there's very few of those around here. That may be another thing I'll leave for the Next owner to correct.