Classic Car prices on the way down?

[Constantine]

I've been following ebay auction results over the past couple of months and have noticed that bids on many good cars are not clearing the reserve price. The reserves are too high or are classic cars prices falling together with U.S. house prices and business/consumer confidence in the U.S. economy? What's happening?

[alsancle]

If you define "classic cars" as CCCA classics or highly desirable pre-1960 cars then absolutely not. If you define "classic cars" as muscle cars, or any old car with marginal collector appeal then yes.

To cherry pick a single example, the Stutz in the list below sold for twice the huge price it got 3 years ago. 350k vs 700k.

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=HF07

[1937hd45]

What is your deffinition of CLASSIC? Let's hope the overblown hemi, matching number, build sheet, only green one of 10,000 built, plad jacketed used car lot saleman crap is taking an over due dump.

[mrpushbutton]

RM does not offer the cars they sell with reserves, and they have been getting pretty good results on their auctions.

[Jay Wolf]

Several of the cars sold Friday at Hershey had reserves.

Almost all except the Swigert collection had reserves, but they met them and sold. A few dropped their reserve and sold.

[Constantine]

To clarify, the ebay auctions l've been following are of pre-1950s cars with a NADA guide value of less than 50K.

Speaking of RM auctions (which l haven't been following) there was a discussion on the Lincoln-Zephyr forum of how cheaply this car went for:

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=HF07&CarID=r176&Currency=

[Guest BJM]

Nope. Actually if anyone took the time to do a comprehensive, scientific study, you would probably find that in all offers at auction with reserve, whether live or on ebay, 85 to 90% end in no sale.

On ebay it happens regularly. I think, because sellers think there is a sucker out there that will pay what they ask. Some push the envelope.

The Binder DeSoto auction that just concluded in Iowa on Saturday yielded over $425,000 for 50 cars. It was NO RESERVE but I'm sure they didn't start at $100.

So, your observation that reserve auctions on ebay are not meeting with sold results, has - in my opinion and based on a 10 year observation of ebay - been the norm rather then the exception.

ebay doesn't really care, nor would they pay for the research into this matter as they want it as hush hush as possible. They get more money that way. They don't want to educate sellers on on-line market values.

I wondered for years how many of the cars listed in Hemmings actually sold in a given month. Granted, some are listed OBO, and for those with just a price, you can still haggle, but I really wonder what percentage of asking price is realized, again, scientifically. I think eyebrows would be raised.

I'm not in the hobby to realize gains on my cars, when I eventually put them up for sale. I offer them at a fair price, and usually lose money anyway.

I ran one with a reserve on ebay last year, and even lowered my reserve twice during the auction, and still it ended up not coming close to my reserve.

I understand reserve auctions - the concept that a seller is not willing to accept a price below his minimum, but is there too much greed in what a person sets a reserve at? Because of what has happened cyclically a couple of times in the past 20 years, is the mindset now "By god someone is going to by my car for what I saw one go for in Scottsdale!"?

I know one trend that will continue, fewer project cars are getting restored. It's too expensive. Joe Baby Boomer has the bucks to buy a completed car, nicely done. Fewer guys, and fewer guy's wives are allowing - are doing an older car restoration next to the family grocery getter. Subdivision laws are tightening up any loopholes that allow anything remotely "project" shape to exist.

So the guys buy a car done, I've even see them bring the photo portfolio of the restoration and proudly display it in the trunk at shows, next to the car they have never touched.

Also, have you noticed that Hemmings has added, probably in the last three years or so since the sale to new owners - a section for car dealers. Has anyone else ever thought "how the he** can these dealers ask these prices? Are people really buying these Camaros, muscle cars, (fill in the blank) for $55,000, $75,000 or whatever, all about 50 to 100% over normal market value?

Are the baby boomers just paying whatever to relive their youth? What a business to be in: buy a muscle car for $20,000 and turn around and put a $75,000 price tag on it. Again, like Hemmings and ebay, we will never know what these cars actually sell for - no study will ever be done.

So perhaps projects pricing will remain "flat" but even guys with projects will slap reserves on those cars, thinking by gawd I've had this rare four door Chebby 25 years, I am ready to retire.

I went to a no reserve outdoor project car auction in northwest Minnesota in late September. 400 cars and trucks, mostly, well, junk but there were 400 bidders registered.

The owner, ahead of time, was bragging how this auction was going to make him a millionaire. He had run a similar auction, with reserve, three years prior and stopped it early, as no cars were hitting the outrageous reserves he thought they were worth. "Just go home then" - he told people.

Now, with the land up for sale by his sister, he had to sell. No reserve. Again, about 30 cars in he threw a fit, started waiving his arms to stop stop!! when the auctioneer came over took him aside and told him no way, she was not going to stop it.

Collect cars for their beauty and nostalgia, not for profit and leave it in God's hands if you must sell, that you might make some money, otherwise this hobby will eat it's young.

[alsancle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RM does not offer the cars they sell with reserves, and they have been getting pretty good results on their auctions. </div></div>

RM will take cars either way assuming the car meets their auction criterion for that auction and that your reserve is not crazy.

In the last few years they have conducted a number of no-reserve estate auctions and have achieved huge sales results.