Guide & B-L-C

[Grandpa]

Forum Members,

I would like to know what the relationship was between the Guide Lamp division of GM and B-L-C. From the 1930s through the early postwar years, Guide and B-L-C offered identical (or nearly identical) accessory fog lights and driving lights. In some cases, the light model numbers are same (between Guide and B-L-C), except for a suffix letter. I have a pair of 1941 Guide foglights and a pair of the same design fog light from B-L-C. I have found that the parts are identical, except for the company names. Here are a couple of possible explanations: (1) B-L-C was an over the counter name of Guide for auto parts stores. (2) B-L-C made some Guide lights under contract and also produced the same light under their name.

To add some confussion to this story, in some models of accessory lights, both Guide and B-L-C sold the same light with and without the oval shaped ID tag on top of the light shell. Here is a possible explanation: (1) Guide and B-L-C lights sold through a GM dealer's parts department (or dealer installed) carried the oval shaped ID tag. Guide and B-L-C lights sold though auto parts stores did not have the ID tag. With or without the ID tag, the lens was marked Guide or B-L-C.

Do any forum members know the story?

Thanks,

Grandpa

[Mark Shaw]

This won't answer your specific question, but it does have some interesting history:

http://www.motorera.com/history/hist11.htm

[Guest Olds1932Conv]

BLC is for Buick LaSalle Cadillac. Guides were on Oldsmobile. I am looking for a pair of the 7 7/8 lenses or guide driving lights .

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Guides were on Chevies as well!

Cheers

Grant from 2007

[Grandpa]

It seems unlikely to me that Guide lights would only be offered for a particular GM car, such as Oldsmobiles.

I think that Guide offered lights under the B-L-C (Bright Light Company) brand to increase sales through various retail outlets, perhaps at a lower price than what GM auto dealers would charge. The attached pictures are of the new for 1941 Guide Nighthawk light (Guide no. 859-C) next to the B-L-C counterpart (B-L-C no. 859-A). The illustrations in the Guide installation instuction sheet for the Nighthawk light covers several GM brands, including Buick and Oldsmobile.

Also attached are pictures of an NOS B-L-C S-M5 spotlight. The original box seems to be marked as: "WARDS, BLC QUALITY, SPOT LAMP, ....". This spotlight is identical to the Guide model S-16 spotlight, except that the plastic handle & switch wheel are a brown color rather than the ivory color used on the Guide spotlights and the B-L-C chrome bulb cap (removed from the spotlight shown) doesn't have the Guide or GM logo. The Guide S-16 and B-L-C S-M5 spotlights were offered from the late 1930s through the early postwar years.

Grandpa

[Larry Schramm]

Guide was a division of GM and did the lighting for the car divisions. I do not know when it was acquired, but probably when Billy Durant was running the show and buying up everything in sight to support the auto manufacturing / assembly operations.

Guide I believe sold parts under different names to be able to sell in the aftermarket. Not the same as AC Sparkplug where that division used its name on their products.

The other division that was like that was the Dayton Electric Laboratories Company. That is what is otherwise known as DELCO. They supplied as a division of GM a lot of the electrical parts to GM assembly operations and also sold in the aftermarket.

[allcars]

Here's perhaps the real answer to the Guide/B-L-C mystery. Quoted below are two timeline entries, from Charles Bullock's excellent online history of Guide Lamp (The history of Guide Lamp, Division of GMC), that explain why Guide and B-L-C lamps made for circa 1936 to 1942 cars are essentially identical. In a nutshell, "B-L-C" is the mark of Brown-Lipe-Chapin, a Syracuse, NY GM unit that operated under Guide Lamp from 1936 to 1942:

(begin quote)

1936 Guide continued to grow and expand. In January 1936 the Brown-Lipe-Chapin Co., Syracuse, N. Y. was named a plant of Guide Lamp.

Originally established in 1895 to make a two-speed bicycle gear, the company had been connected with General Motors since 1910. The Syracuse plant turned out lamps, bumper guards and hub caps for the eastern section of the United States.

1942 (July) Brown-Lipe-Chapin plant was made a separate division. They immediately converted to war work to manufacture machine guns for the

armed forces. Guide Lamp was then at its all-time peak. The division was the world's outstanding; producer of automotive lamps and was also the manufacturer of many metal stampings and die castings for GM cars and others. (end quote)

The description of Brown-Lipe-Chapin products during the 1936-1942 is reported, in nearly the same language, in the 1958 General Motors Corp. 50th Anniversary "Forward from Fifty" press information book.

Edited March 25, 2012 by allcars (see edit history)

[Grandpa]

allcars,

Many thanks for the above post. Was the B-L-C brand offered as a lower cost afer-market light?

Grandpa

[shanezwarg]

Is there a way to tell the years, makes, styles of the lights? Between years? Example I've seen them with tear drop shapes like trippe seniors, and I've seen others that look like the junior lights, kinda flat on back? Is there a book or web sight with any kind of part number break down? The Hollander interchange doesn't even show lights. I see people on eBay advertising them, 37,38,39,40,41, but I know in 40 they are not round, there kinda square.  I'm more interested in earlier lights, 1933 and up. Blc or guide witch may be the both gm accessories. Wonder why guide is worth so much more? At least on eBay lol.  Blc to guide are double the cost? I'd love any info to help. Like grandpa... Shane zwarg 509-981-0972, can us 19@yahoo.com. Thank u

[Grandpa]

From what I have observed, the accessory lights made by GM's Guide Division and GM's Brown-Lipe-Chapin Division (B-L-C) are identical, except for the name.  Sometime postwar, GM changed the name of the B-L-C Division to the Guide Division; I guess to have a Guide factory on the East Coast.  As for desirability today, the Guide name lights (with Guide lenses) command higher prices.  Also, some prewar Guide light models can be found with and without the oval shaped ID tag on top.  The lights that have the oval ID tag on top seem to be a bit harder to find.

Grandpa

 

[nzcarnerd]

Seems BLC has a long history   -    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._E._Lipe_Machine_Shop   -    .There is a lot of interesting reading here   -    http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/index.htm   - which illustrates the complexity of the industry.  I gather BLC got into lights by making zinc castings. I wonder if Henry Winfield Chapin was any relation to Roy D Chapin of Hudson fame.

[Cpt2na]

I have a set of BLC lights, they are 5 3/4” with a part number of 859-A. They have the oval tag as described above. Am I reading correctly that they are actually older than the Guide lights. They had a set of the Guide lens’s that have a part number of 5931958. Would the correct lens’s have a part number of 924877?