'50 Rear brakes, axle seals, shocks, etc. Help

[Gary_N]

The right rear of my '50 locks up easily when hitting the brakes. When taking that side apart, I noticed a lot of "greasy" build up on the bottom of backing plate. So, I guess I'm leaking? So, if I attempt to replace the bearings and seals, is there anyway to get the axles out (which I assume I need to do) without a specialized axle puller? I doubt it so where would you find an axle puller for an old Buick? The manual also says replacing the races, if needed, requires grinding to the point of being able to crack them off. If there are no score marks on the races, should I assume they are still fine? I also assume getting new ones on means a trip to the machine shop?

If my pads are a little "slippery", can I scuff them up with a little scotch brite? I have a lot of pad left.

Lastly, are there rebuild kits for the lever shocks? I can't seem to find any. Trying to avoid paying $125 each for rebuilt units.

Lots of questions from the inexperienced one.

Thanks!

Gary

[sledheader 48381]

Gary; If your car has a torque tube [enclosed drive shaft] like my 47 getting the axil shafts out isn't all that hard. you'll need to remove the rear diff. cover, its full of fluid so put a drain pan under it, with the rear tires removed roll the wheels until you see a bolt that holds the pin in the center of the of the diffential gear assembly, this pin actually holds outward pressure on the ends of the axil shafts so the retainer clips that keeps them from sliding out stay in place. Remove the bolt slide the pin out and the square block that the pin goes through, remove the rear drums and push in on the hub end of the axil shaft, this should allow the clip to fall out our be removed, repeat on the other side.

On a 1947 the rear bearings are greaseable just like the front bearings, they can be removed and packed the same way, one thing to note is that there is a inner and outer seal, I recommend replacing them both, all these parts are available at Bobs Automobilia in Ca.

You can try cleaning the rear shoes with any brake cleaning product and before you decide to get those shocks rebuilt try filling them with a good quaility hydro. oil.

Don

[Gary_N]

Don:

Thanks. I already ordered the parts from Cars, Inc. I'm sure the '47 and '50 are the same. Nothing like getting help from those that have already done this kind of stuff. I wonder why my right rear started locking up all of a sudden? I think I'll just rebuild all 4's and hope for the best. I'm always amazed at how good the brakes are on my '50. Always have had a good pedal and no fade.

By the way, my bleeder screws are looking pretty bad. They look the same as modern bleeder screws. Could this be they're the same? Cars did not seem to have any. I didn't try Bob's.

Thanks!

Gary

[sledheader 48381]

Gary; Had to cut my reply short yesterday but one other thing, had brake issues with my car when I first got it as well, pulled real bad to the left I replaced the front wheel cyls and it repaired the problem. If you have already done this one other thing to ckeck is the rubber lines running to the cyls. themselves, they can collapse on the inside causing a restriction to the brake cyl.

I got my new cyls. through NAPA, Buick used the same part # from the 40's up to the 60's, if I remember correctly they didn't even charge a core on them.

Don

[Gary_N]

Don:

My lines are not rubber. Maybe they were changed. One cylinder in particular is very scored inside. I'm not sure if the location would have an effect on the smooth sliding of the internals but I would bet that it must. Kind a like it rusted from the inside. Thanks for the NAPA idea. I'll have to call them in the AM.

One thing is for sure, the axles slipped out way too easy. I was expecting a hard time there. I noticed that whoever worked on the rear end last did not use a gasket when the installed the rear end cover, rather using a ton of a rubber like sealer. I have a cork gasket that I picked up from CARS. I'm wondering what sealer I should use, if any, when closing up the rear. Also of note was that each of the 10 bolts were wrapped with teflon tape, as well as the filler nut. This can't be correct.

Gary

[old-tank]

Gary

When you get the gasket from CARS, glue it to the differntial cover with 3M weatherseal cement and then use some silicon sealer on the other side before you install. That is what was on before as a sole sealant and is used that way on modern cars...that is what the dealer used on my 97 F150 10 years ago. That skinny gasket from cars will not seal well by itself.

Teflon tape or any other thread sealant is not a bad idea...it will not leak badly without but seeps and is always messy.

If the shocks are only leaking and functioning well after filling try my tip: http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php?ub...true#Post428742

Willie

[Gary_N]

Willie:

Looks like my shocks don't leak at all. I think I may just leave well enough alone there. I'll pick up the cement and sealer you suggest. I will say that my rear end did not leak, and that's about the only place on the car.

Another question: Short of having a bearing puller, which I don't, is there any way to get the axle bearings out without wrecking them? Mine seem OK, but I wanted to change the inner seals, although they look OK as well? The outers were another matter.

I have noticed that the shock links I recently replaced don't seem to like more that one installation. In removing the brake back plate for cleaning, I removed the shocks and links. Couldn't get the shock arm side of the link off and the center portion of the frame side of the link pulled out. Look like cheap junk to me. Got these from CARS. I usually do well with their stuff. Just hate buying things twice. Wonder if there are better links around?

Thanks for your help!!

Gary

[old-tank]

Gary

The bearings are not very tight but you need some sort of tool to remove. I use a puller with the arms reversed and have the screw engage a flat piece of metal spanning the end of the axle. I have seen a slide hammer tool used that had expandable hooks. Most auto parts stores have tools to loan or rent.

I have a friend with a 54 that left out the inner seals and has had no trouble for 10,000 miles...apparently enough lube will get to the bearings unless racing a circle track. If the inner seal is still good just add some grease and replace the outter seal unless you think the grease installed was many years ago, in which case there may be compatibily problems.

I have not bought shock links from CARS...try Bob's Automobilia, since they seem to have better products ( and attitude ).

Willie

[critterpainter]

Gary:

The rear flexible brake line is located to the left of the back of the transmission. The lines connecting the rear wheel cyl's are metal.

Bill

[Gary_N]

Ah, I see. I didn't look that far up. Gary

[Gary_N]

Willie: The inner seals look good to me. At least a lot better than the outers. My manual has a pic of the slide hammer puller. That would be a good thing to have. I have some pullers that may work as well. But, I think I'll just replace the outers and lube up the bearings. I really want to modify the '50 anyway so the rear may not be there for long. My real purist project is my '54 ala Lamar.

I will try Bob's today. Actually, I've had the reverse of experience with both the suppliers. I guess it just must be the day you call.

Thanks!

Gary

[sledheader 48381]

Gary; When I replaced my front cyls. I also replaced my flex hoses. its something I usually do regardless of the type of brakes Im working on, it helps to avoid problems now and down the road.

If I gather what your involved with as far as your car it sounds like it may have been sitting a while , brake fluid may have detereiorated the rubber seals inside the wheel cyls., it does the same to the inside of flexable brake lines. I'd replace that rear one as well, what you want to remember is there is only one chamber in your master cyl.for the front and rear brakes if you develop a leak you lose all braking, unlike newer cars that have two seperate chambers, one for the

front and one for the rear.

As far as the rear bearings, the seals purpose is the same as in ft. wheel bearings, to keep the grease in the bearings. The oil in the rear axil does not get up to the bearings like new cars, if filled to the proper level the fluid should not get to the outer bearing, its purpose is to lub the rear diff. gears only. This is why its important to pack the rear bearings and replace seals, in the repair manual its says this should be done often, every 5,000 miles.

Don

[Gary_N]

Don:

Yoda sat for about 29 years. I bought the car 3 years ago. The seller put 300 miles on the car in 14 years. I've put about 1,500 on in the past three. Before the he sat in a barn for another 15 years.

Thanks for the help!

Gary

[sledheader 48381]

Gary; Double checked that timeframe for bearing repack, its not every 5,000, its every 10,000 front and rear.

Don

[Gary_N]

Willie:

I have a question for you: How "tight" should the outer rear seals feel when the axles go back in. I really had to really force the axles past the outer seals. I assume they should be snug, but these things scar me a little. It's hard to turn the axles by hand once installed.

Thanks!

Gary

[old-tank]

Gary

"Tightness" is very subjective when describing and responding. Anyhow the only way to tell for sure is to remove the axle shaft and seal and place the seal over the inner bearing race to see "what is happening" up close. I have encountered tightness to but attributed it to engagement of the splines. If it went in at all it is probably OK. You did have the lip of the seal facing inwards?

Willie

[Gary_N]

Willie:

I should have tested the parts before putting everything back together. I was assuming, and you know how that's spelled. Yes on the lip facing inwards. I think you're correct, if it went in, it must be OK. I have never had one of these apart before and it just seemed to hard to get the axles back in when it was so easy to get them out.

On another note, getting the brake springs back on was a major issue. All of my brake experience is with C5 Corvettes. It's been many, many years since I touched a drum set. Either I have the wrong brake spring tool (which seems impossible) or I'm just a moron. It took me an hour to get the right side on. I couldn't get the tool to work. Not looking forward to the left side.

Thanks for your help!

Gary

[old-tank]

Gary

One other thing, hopefully you installed fairly newly manufactured seals and not some 50 year old leather or rubber (junk).

On the brakes...by the time you finish the other side you will be an expert. If still having trouble post a picture of your finished side and of your tool.

Willie

[imported_buick5563]

Gary,

I had the same problem with reinstalling drum brake springs ( I was indeed a moron ) I was using the hook end instead of the spoon end. Basically get the spoon over the pin and stretch the snot out of the spring, letting it snap (up the tool) over the pin. I realize this is like a three year old explaining it, but I think a three year old may have designed it and not drawn a picture on the back of the box to explain how to use it.

Once you do it right, it takes all of the mystery out of it.

Mike

[Gary_N]

Mike:

The problem for me was/is the stretch. The springs I have must surely belong to Golds Gym since it was virtually impossible to use the tool correctly and get enough stretch to reach the pin on the backing plate. I actually had to use the tool the wrong way to get the spring on. And, that was really a challenge.

I think the mystery is over. I either have the wrong size tool or I'm in serious need of a BowFlex!

Gary

[imported_buick5563]

Gary,

A new spring set costs less than a BowFlex, attach them to a two by four and pull real hard, it should have you ready for the Auto Olympics in no time .

Hey BTW, what part of Maryland do you live in? I grew up in DC and still have a bunch of friends up there. (No car guys, though)

Mike

[Gary_N]

Mike - I'm near Frederick.

[Gary_N]

Oh, and I've now mastered using a brake spring tool the wrong way!