Lets get back to basics

[Guest windjamer]

Maby I am wrong but having judged or watched the judges for the past five or six years I think as judges we need to get back to basic,s I was tought judge with your eyes,make a mental note of items and do your writing away from the vech. At our own show in Binghamton a judge opened the car door of a vech. sat on the door sill and started writeing a book. I dont mean to find fault, we have the best system you could have but its not nessasery to embaris the owners. Do we realy have to see how many pts we can take?? Ok Im sorry if I steped on toes, Ill get off my soap box. Hershey is coming, Judge outhers as you want to be judged.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Dick,

What response did you receive from the Team Captain or other officials at Binghamton after you observed the stated scenario <span style="font-weight: bold">2 weeks </span>ago? Hopefully, you said something at the time so constructive criticism would have benefited the judge in question. On the other hand, did the vehicle owner possibly grant permisssion to the judge? Just curious.

Regards,

PJH

[Guest windjamer]

PJ, Idid not speek with the team in question. I did make a point to walk over to the class I spoke of and (look over)the cars. I was wareing one of the judges hats I rec at hershey so the owner of the car came over and spoke with me.He asked if it was normal to sit on the door sill and make a report. I told him that the judge may have had problems with his legs and maby just forgot himself for a moment. AS FOR THE TEAM i WOULD NEVER QUESTION A FELLOW MEMBER THAT MOST LIKELY FORGOT MORE THAN i KNOW,but I will bring the subject up at Hershey school.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Good idea to bring it up, Dick. Would serve as a reminder to all.

My car was judged at 26 AACA Meets and in every case the interior judge would request permission to touch the car or ask that I open doors, etc.

Regards,

PJH

[Bhigdog]

I had my 55 Buick at a non AACA show one time and came back to it to find a judge sitting in it trying to put the top down. It made for an ugly scene. I have never had a bad experiance with judges at an AACA show.........Bob.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Judge outhers as you want to be judged.</div></div>

I understand what you mean, but that can be a dangerous and unfair way of judging. Case in point a judge I had on my team that wanted to be liberal about letting points slide because his car wasn't perfect.

Only certain members of a team are allowed to touch the car and only under certain circumstances. Others should keep their hands, and other body parts, off of the cars.

[Guest windjamer]

Susan I did not mean to imply that judges should be slack,if its wrong its wrong I will be the first to deduct pts.,but we need to remember brand new cars are not always pergect when they leave the factory. Im sure you have been judging much longer than I, and have much more exp.but you have to admit we restore our cars to a MUCH beter condition than they where when new. Still SOME judges expect all cars to look like the 50000 doller over restored mustang siting next to the car next door. If adoor has a minor scratch I might take a pt. Not 4. As for judg outhers, At grand nat. in Buffalow my wife left a small ceramic trinket on the floor of the car. The team capt. (A Lady) told her to take it out befor judging this saved us a pt. or two and was vary much apprecated. At our show the class I judged had a first timer in it. He had the whole front seat back seat and trunk covered with mags. and literature.I asked him if he wanted a word of advice.(Got in truble for that once Learn quick) He said he would and I told hom to look at his car and remove anything that didnt come with the car. I think he rec a second. Not bad.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Susan I did not mean to imply that judges should be slack,if its wrong its wrong I will be the first to deduct pts.,but we need to remember brand new cars are not always pergect when they leave the factory.</div></div>

I knew you didn't mean to slack off on the judging. You just mean to judge fairly like you would want done to you, right?

And you are very correct, new cars right off the showroom floor have things wrong with them. At the judging school at New Bern, N.C. we were told to go out after class and judge a new car sitting there from a local dealership. Point made.

Im sure you have been judging much longer than I, and have much more exp.</div></div>

Maybe, but that doesn't mean that I, or any judge, know more about cars than you do. Credits are not the level of knowledge that a judge may have, they show that people went to judging schools, CJE classes and judged or worked in administration. That is all they stand for. I started in Sept. of 1990.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...but you have to admit we restore our cars to a MUCH beter condition than they where when new. Still SOME judges expect all cars to look like the 50000 doller over restored mustang siting next to the car next door.</div></div>

Sad but true. To some the over restored car is the standard. That is why the folks in judges training need to keep reminding all judges that is not the case.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At grand nat. in Buffalow my wife left a small ceramic trinket on the floor of the car. The team capt. (A Lady) told her to take it out befor judging this saved us a pt. or two and was vary much apprecated.</div></div>

That is part of what a team captain is supposed to do. Walk around and look for those kinds of things to help the owners with. If they don't see an extinguisher, ask if they have one. Maybe it is still packed in a box of stuff they brought along. Especially the new folks just starting in the hobby of showing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At our show the class I judged had a first timer in it. He had the whole front seat back seat and trunk covered with mags. and literature.I asked him if he wanted a word of advice.(Got in truble for that once Learn quick) He said he would and I told hom to look at his car and remove anything that didnt come with the car. I think he rec a second. Not bad. </div></div>

That was nice of you to help them out. I have made it a practice to offer the previous year's judging manual to someone new to the hobby of showing. I tell them that there may be a few minor changes and that they can check out the new manual on-line here if they want to. But that it will give them a general idea about judging and how it is done. Who knows, maybe it will inspire them to get into this end of the hobby. I have said it before, the judging process is not a secret, only the scores are.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My car was judged at 26 AACA Meets and in every case the interior judge would request permission to touch the car or ask that I open doors, etc.</div></div>

Peter, I had one issue the very first meet that we came to (Johnstown - 2001). The interior judge was laying across the floorboard inside of our truck looking under the dash. That has never happened since, and now that I know the rules, if it were to happen again, the Team Captain would probably see me turn on my old "Drill Sergeant" voice, and if immediate action wasn't taken, the interior judge might be suddenly experiencing some severe prostate issues.

There have been cases where the team captain has opened the doors to our vehicles when we haven't been around. In those cases it was an issue where my dad and I were both judging, I cornered the Team Captain judging our vehicle at judges breakfast, took them out to the vehicle, identified some issues that might be questioned, and GAVE him permission to open the doors. To the casual observer, they might have thought that the judging team was going through our vehicle, but unless they were around earlier, the Team Captain was given permission at an earlier time.

During this time, between judging and showing vehicles, I haven't seen any issues pertaining to this other than our first time out.

With Judging School being required once a year for everyone, I don't see where this dead horse needs to get beaten. Where the issue lies is where the Team Captain, and judging team need to police each other. If that isn't being done, then the Chief Judge needs to be notified, and the Chief Judge needs to take action with the entire team. If the Team Captain isn't taking action, then a member of the judging team should by-pass the Team Captain and go to the Chief Judge.