idrjoe_sandiego

Model A owners beware:If you have purchased inner tubes within the past 24 months, some are splitting apart without warning. I just checked out the tubes I have on my Model A and it turns out they could be some of the bad ones. Please see my thread on the Dodge Brothers forum for complete details. Be sure to click on the pictures to get an enlarged view of the damage. Here's the link: http://forums.aaca.org/f143/warning-defective-inner-tubes-286287.html

Before you just scrap it, eBay it. I haven't had much luck with selling on this forum either. Of course, this is an informational forum and not a classified ad.

Just a quick update: this thread has been up for just under two weeks and has over 1300 hits. I personally have reports now on over 40 tubes that have split apart. These are not "anecdotal" reports. We are way beyond "anecdotal". They have carried "made in EEC" or "made in Denmark" or "made in India" labeling. Interesting side note: the term "EEC" (European Economic Community) hasn't been in use for over 20 years! It has been largely replaced by the EU designation (European Union). >> NEWS FLASH DIRECT from the "Don't hold your breath " DEPARTMENT:With all those hits and all those defective tube reports I have received to date, NOT ONE PERSON has reported to me that their tire/tube vendors have contacted them to inform them that there might be a problem here.

Hi Ken-PM me for the details-forum will not let me post any specifics. Thx, Joe

Hi Joe (Mr. President)- just got the most recent DB news in the mail and noticed at least one of the companies in question advertises in our magazine. Apparently they appreciate our business and will pay for print, but won't publish any apologies/regrets/recall notices. To DodgeKCL-I appreciate your research into this problem thru your tire dealer contacts. This loophole to have no required id's on inner tubes obviously is being exploited as we speak. I did find a tidbit on the NTHSA website which kind of relates to what you said re: motorcycle tubes. They state that, "the agency is not currently aware of any safety problems associated with motorcycle tires." The website, however, has tons of stuff on defective automobile tires. They say nothing specifically about motorcycle tubes, but your experience agrees with their statement at least as to motorcycle tires.

Although I started this thread in the Dodge Brothers Forum, you Chrysler guys need to know about these potentially dangerous inner tubes that may be already on your car. If you haven't heard about it yet, get the details by clicking here:http://forums.aaca.org/f143/warning-defective-inner-tubes-286287.html

About eight months ago I purchased some tires and tubes for my 1932 Packard, but fortunately haven't installed them yet. OK, so big deal. Well, it turns out that the Packard tubes were made in the same place where the DEFECTIVE tubes for my 29 Dodge were made. These foreign made tubes will SPLIT APART without warning! For photos and all the details please check my thread in the DODGE BROTHERS forum or click on this:http://forums.aaca.org/f143/warning-defective-inner-tubes-286287.html

In fairness to Steve Moskovitz, he is absolutely doing his job. I can assure you through his public postings here and also in the private messages he has sent me, that HE IS ON IT. He not only has a big job monitoring the forum but also must walk the delicate tightrope of protecting the interests of the AACA and its members from lawsuits,etc. I appreciate and applaud Steve's efforts thus far to contact the vendors involved and get to the bottom of this. I can also assure you I have only one agenda: the SAFETY and WELFARE of our colleagues in the Antique Car Hobby. That said, I hope that shedding a little light on the problem might encourage the vendors involved to do the right thing. Of course, I am not holding my breath. Only they, the vendors, know how many ticking time-bombs were sold and to whom.

This is a warning to all that have purchased inner tubes for your collector car in the past 24 months (see disclaimer in red). Your tire dealer will probably NOT contact you to advise you of this. I, however, cannot sit by on the sidelines waiting for an accident that might be avoided. Sometime In the past 24 months several of the major collector car tire dealers may have been selling defective inner tubes that WILL SPLIT APART without warning! I personally know of more than two dozen cases where this has happened. The evidence suggests that these tubes in question usually will say made in Made in Denmark or Made in EEC (the EEC includes Denmark). Don't expect your dealer to send you a notice. You will probably receive NO RECALL NOTICE from your dealer- consider this your NOTICE. I would recommend if you have purchased tubes in the past 24 months, be proactive. Start with taking down a tire and see what is on the label of the tube. Don't be surprised when you find little or no labeling on them. If you happen to discover you have these tubes, I would urge you to stop driving the vehicle until you replace the tubes with better products. Some of us are looking into motorcycle tubes or industrial tubes. If anyone would like more information than I can supply here due to forum rules, please PM me. Also, anyone with a similar experience, do not sit idle, let the community in on your story. The life you save could be your own. In Fairness: Two of the companies contacted are not selling these tubes anymore and have made refunds to consumers as requested. At least one of the companies have not sold "the first batch" of these tubes in over a year. One company is now using tubes from another source and the other company believes the manufacturer has corrected the problems and has tested the new tubes in this country without failure. According to all sources there are NO vintage tire tubes being made in the US. Joe's assumption that ALL tubes marked EEC or Denmark are faulty is not based on hard facts, only anecdotal information. What is known is that some tubes were bad and that the sellers feel the problems have been resolved. You need to make your own decisions on what you have and how you have installed your tube and talk to the sellers if you have a concern. Tow of the major tire dealers have been contacted and have willingly discussed this problem with us and assured our club that the product being sold now has been tested and are quality products. Please see all the details including photos of the suspect tubes at my thread on the Dodge Brothers Forum: http://forums.aaca.org/f143/warning-defective-inner-tubes-286287.html

Don't worry about using the 12 volt jumper packs as they work fine on the 6 volt cars. Just remember to check that all your light switches (e.g.,headlights, dash, etc.) are in the OFF position BEFORE you engage the 12 volts. Ask me how I know!!!

I'd like to publicly apologize to the forum, because, unbeknown to me, I was in violation of a Forum rule that says you can't mention vendor names in your posts (I frankly don't even know where these rules are listed). In any case, I broke the rule and have been notified by Mr. Steve Moskowitz, whose job it is to monitor the forum. To keep my butt out of hot water, Steve edited my posts here on the DB forum and erased my parallel thread on the general discussion forum. What follows is his letter to me and my reply. <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJA7%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Originally Posted by Steve Moskowitz <o></o> Joe, The rules of the forum are explicit. If this forum is to stay alive we cannot allow the mentioning of names. You simply can say in the post, "Want to know more, send me an email." What you do in private is fine by us. You have made a lot of allegations about what ***** is concerned about or not. I can tell you that one other forum user had a not so nice visit from an attorney and is lucky he was able to get by with a public apology. It is no longer a matter of being right when it comes to the legalities of slander. Your post serves as a warning for people to make sure they are getting a quality product but you can be assured that I have made these edits in YOUR best interest as well. <o></o><o></o> MY reply: August 3, 2010 <o></o>Steve- My sincere apologies for the violation, as I was unaware of the "names" rules. Quite intentionally, I did not spell out the vendor’s names at first. The outpouring of horror stories educated me as to the gravity of this most unfortunate problem. Ultimately, a frequent forum user, who was upset that I had failed to provide the names of the companies involved, led me to expose the vendors. This, I now know, was in violation -- I understand, you are just doing your job. I thought that the idea of these forums was to share useful information and exchange information for the good of the order of Antique Automobile Owners. Apparently, the AACA is so concerned about their bedfellow vendors/sponsors that they are unconcerned about the safety and welfare of its membership. It seems anymore, that it is always about the money. If the AACA truly cared about its members, it would suggest strongly to those vendors/sponsors (some of whom have now admitted their guilt to you) that they (the vendors) send out a recall notice to all customers who have purchased this defective merchandise. Additionally, these vendors should send out the recall, with a refund check covering the cost of the defects, shipping charges AND the cost of reinstalling a quality replacement product. Failing that, the AACA should DROP their sponsorship at once. AACA should decide whether it cares to be part of the solution or to be part of the problem.<o></o> I understand your need to edit the posts if in violation of forum rules. But I have come forward, in the interest of the SAFETY and WELFARE of the folks on this forum. I cannot, however, understand why my thread warning the forum members about these defective inner tubes on the General forum was eliminated in its entirety. After all, someday YOU Steve, might be touring with a fellow AACA member who has a blowout caused by known defective tubes causing injury to YOU or YOUR car.. Really, I don't want to be the new Ralph Nader, but to sit idle in silence when a colleague might get hurt, is unconscionable. <o></o> Joe

I have a parallel thread running on the general discussion forum section. For the benefit of those here on the DB forum One forum member had an interesting reply. My answer follows. No problem Jim. Its about time these sellers get proper exposure. I masked their full names at first because I didn't realize just how many people have been victims. Many of them have chosen, for whatever reason, to Private mail me to tell their story. I encourage everyone to make it known what dangerous products are being sold. __________________

Tom and Cindy Myers of the Dodge Brothers Club sell an excellent product. <cite>www.myersearlydodge.com</cite>

Thanks Steve! And what a great summer it has been finally driving the Phaeton after being garage-bound for so long. Not that I don't enjoy the restoration, but cruising around in this slice of history is a whole lot more fun. It is interesting to see how this inner tube problem has made 'round the world. Thanks to you folks in Oz for sharing your misfortunes. Maybe it isn't my imagination after all. And as for the increased weight of the two tubes-that is an amazing difference. I'm still working on the facts surrounding the necessary labeling of the tubes. Answers to come-stay tuned. Joe

Hey Jerry- Sounds like you are going original-you're the man! For the rest of you struggling with this decision-this is only the 8th year Pontiac was produced. I have a 1929 Pontiac Roadster. I guarantee you will get more attention on the street or at a show with your original car. They are rare birds and so very cool. As for the your body man who has done a bunch of rods and is pushing that idea...when you are a carpenter, everything looks like a nail.

Doug, unfortunately, I don't know where they were vulcanized. There is little or no info on this tube. Normally, like on a tire, you would expect to see a "maximum inflation pressure", a load rating, a date code, a speed rating... but there is NOTHING. In fact on the "made in Denmark" label, this is easily wiped off the tube. It's not even cast into the molded rubber. One could EASILY change this "MADE IN XXX" stamp to any XXX you wanted even after the tire was manufactured. I am going to start some serious investigation here. If anyone has any info on what labeling, by law, must be imprinted on an inner tube, Please speak up.

Lenny, I would take that bet to Vegas (that the rest will go). Not IF, but WHEN. They say DENMARK, one split already...if it looks like a duck...Play it safe, my friend, get rid of them. It's not worth taking the chance. You might have noticed how quick they are to replace them. DodgeKCL - you make an excellent point. Certainly one which merits serious investigation. I have also been looking into something called "Industrial Inner tubes". Will report back when more is known. I just got back from a big car show here in SO CAL- the DA Phaeton took first place for 1928-1931 vehicles. And there were a mess of them there in that class. No FLATS either. Now that's a Good Day!

EEC EUROPEAN ECONOMIC COMMUNITY The EEC (European Economic Community was formed en 1958 after the Treaty of Rome by six countries, Federal Republic of Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France and Italy. Their goals were to achieve a new age of peace, democracy, cooperation and economic union and prosperity between the European nations and citizens after the WWII. In 1973 Denmark, UK and Ireland join the EEC, in 1981 is Greece the new member and in 1986 Spain and Portugal. After the treaty of Maastricht in 1992 the EEC became the European Union due to the more ambitious goals in the post cold-war Europe where the political unification looked a realistic possibility.

Anyone can make a mistake, but when it comes to safety, there is no excuse for the story I am about to tell. Normally I am not that vocal, but when it comes down to product SAFETY issues, we need to speak up and be heard. If not, one of us, one of our family members, or one of our classic cars might fall victim to sellers of DEFECTIVE merchandise. At the end of last year my Dad and I purchased six brand new wide whitewall tires, complete with new flaps and inner tubes from a well known seller of classic car tires: **** Classic Tire Company. The tires and tubes were mounted and balanced. Less than one week later, three of six tires were flat. The wheels hadn't even been mounted to the car yet. The very next day, a fourth suffered the same fate. We broke the wheels back down to discover the four inner tubes had 12-16 inch splits in them, all in exactly the same place-centered on the valve stem. So Dad phones a sales rep at **** Classic Tire who kindly and quickly offers to replace all six tubes. Dad asked if they wanted the old tubes back. He said, "No, we don't want to pay to have them shipped back, but next time you are in the area, you can bring them in." The defective tubes were labeled "MADE IN DENMARK". **** Classic Tire Co. promptly shipped out the new ones, which also were "MADE IN DENMARK". Shortly after installation, the tubes began to blow again. Four tires had 400-500 miles on them and the two spares had zero miles. Last week, one of the new batch literally blew while I was standing next to the car. I had driven about three miles to a friend's shop to show him the car, and about a half-hour later, as I was about to leave ....PSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTT!!!! the right rear tire flattens in a matter of three seconds. Thankfully this didn't happen on a busy California freeway- who knows what disaster might have happened. Its bad enough for **** Classic Tire Company to sell this dangerous defective crap, but to KNOWINGLY CONTINUE to sell it...??? It's likely that this seller knew about the problem since they didn't even want to see the defective ones. What company sends out warranty items without seeing the defective items? And what company worth their salt would not investigate the cause of the defective items before shipping more of the same defects?? I feel that this should be reported to the Department of Transportation and a recall be issued to warn the public of this problem. Needless to say, I am done with **** Classic Tire Co. I know that at least one of our fellow DB club members has had a similar experience, however, I don't know where his tubes were purchased or manufactured. If anyone has a similar story, please share it with the forum community, as it could be a matter of LIFE or DEATH. Please see the pictures: the dates on the photos indicate whether from the first batch or second batch. The splits always originate just adjacent to the valve stem. One more thing, does anyone know whether an inner tube is required to have a date stamp like a tire? If inner tubes are exempted by the DOT, this law should be changed.

I also have both front and rear seats (seats and backs) with original springs. The seats are in excellent shape, however are covered with unoriginal fabric.

I have a parts car for sale. If interested please see the following threads: I'd like to give the forum guys first shot before it goes on eBay. http://forums.aaca.org/f194/1929-dodge-da-sedan-parts-car-285896.html http://forums.aaca.org/f194/1929-dodge-da-sedan-parts-car-285897.html

OK-- Last of the cars! Then, early Saturday morning, we said our goodbyes to all our great friends in the Dodge Brothers Club, we packed the Phaeton on the trailer and headed out to stay with friends in North Carolina, before heading back to beautiful San Diego. Awesome trip!! Thanks for watching-Joe

Bored yet?

And more cars

OK OK here's the cars.