1935Packard
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Posts posted by 1935Packard
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That's a cool story, AJ. If you have the one original one, that's worth using it (but watching it carefully!).
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AJ, as you know, I've been thinking a lot about the mascot or no mascot question on my '35. Just bought a bale-wire radiator cap for it, actually. (As an aside, yes, it is silly for a grown man to be thinking about this, but hey, it keeps us off the streets.) My 2 cents: On a car as rare as your Stearns, a correct mascot is really cool, and you should lean in favor of using it. It's different with a more common car, as people who know pre-war cars know the mascots of Packards, Cadillacs, etc. But a correct mascot on your Stearns is a neat indicator of how different your Stearns is; it invites people who see it to realize it's a very rare car and to notice what is different. My 2 cents.
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3 hours ago, edinmass said:
What did I drive Friday? Mostly all work related……1936 Duesenberg JN
1935 Auburn 851 SC
2003 Ford Focus
2018 Bentley Flying Spur V-12
2018 Toyota Prius
2003 Buick Centery
Wow, a PRIUS? Ed, that's awesome. Good for you.
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32 minutes ago, alsancle said:
90% of the wealthy guys that are new to collecting cars make incredibly poor decisions. Many don't want to pay for independent advice because they think it looks easy. Or their advisor is someone that doesn't necessarily have their best interests at heart. Weird, because typically they are very smart in their world.
In fairness, if you are coming in cold it is hard to know who to trust if you are looking for help.I might extend that to the not-so-wealthy guys too. Lots of ways to screw up when you're buying an old car.
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4 hours ago, West Peterson said:
Which is all mentioned in the story. It is not being touted as a "lost and found or discovered" Duesenberg, as anyone who has studied Duesenbergs knows very well that the fate of all Duesenberg J models (but for maybe one in Europe) is known. The featured Duesenberg was put away in 1966, garage doors sealed, and it never saw the light of day until last October. That's almost 60 years. Randy Ema, who has seen all but two of the existing Duesenbergs, had NEVER seen this one.
It's an excellent story, I really enjoyed it. And in a great issue. The magazine just gets better and better; bravo.
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2 hours ago, Grimy said:
Orin, try being behind someone **on a tour** with those damn flashing LEDs and you won't want to be friendly to them at the next waypoint! My bicycle lights have an option of steady beam or flashing, and I often use them in the steady mode NOT on a tour but on conventional roads, especially where the average speed is 70 or better.
I wouldn't use extra lights on a tour; I save them for busy roads like highways. But then I don't drive my prewar cars much on highways, either!
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5 hours ago, alsancle said:
In Massachusetts it is illegal to drive with your hazard lights flashing.
This is from the AAA website:
In most cases, hazards should only be used during an emergency, such as if your car has broken down or you have to pull over to the side of the road. This helps warn other drivers of a temporary hazard. Using your hazard lights while driving on the other hand, can distract or confuse others on the road. Many states prohibit the use of hazards while driving. If you truly feel conditions warrant the need for hazard lights, consider stopping and waiting out the weather, as the low visibility may make driving too dangerous.
Yes, that's what the AAA says. But if you ask the drivers on the road — the ones who pose a threat to you as you're driving— they think hazard lights mean, "watch out, I'm going slowly, and I want you to see me, so be careful around me." That's why people put on their hazard lights in a big storm, even if AAA says you're not supposed to. Anyway, I'll drop it, but I think they're a good idea for safety given the realities of what people actually think.
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1 hour ago, alsancle said:
I think you should only user flashers if you are staying way under the speed-limit. If you are keep up with traffic I think they are a distraction to other drivers. I would suggest something that mimics running lights instead.
I do carry a set of magnetic flashers to put on the car in the event I get stuck on the side of the road.
At least around here, you're *always* going slower than other cars on the highway when you're driving a 30s car. Modern cars are going 70+. I can do 60 or maybe 65 in my 12, but it's uncomfortable (and having to come to a sudden stop is scary). I'd rather do 55 and just let everyone else doing 70+ go around me. And for that, flashing lights is useful.
As for going the same speed as traffic, I think it's still good for safety to have flashers on a 30s car. Modern drivers have no earthly idea of what is obvious to us: Our cars have terrible brakes compared to modern cars, and bad steering compared to normal cars, and they're slow compared to normal cars. What scares me the most is the dingbats who do dumb things like going along side you and honking loudly to say they like your car, or trying to film you and not paying attention to where they're going, or driving just a few feet behind you, or cutting you off as they race to make an exit. Flashing lights tell other drivers, "treat this car differently, it doesn't have the same abilities as other cars." At least around here, that's not a bad message to send.
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6 hours ago, 32Mac said:
Very interesting. Thanks for the education. I have to believe that anyone buying the most luxurious, high-end Buick at the height of the depression, one with all of the extras, including wizard control, would have probably ordered the trunk and the larger lights, as well as whitewalls….but who knows? Maybe not. Unless I had the original invoice, which I don’t, it’s impossible to say.
I can completely understand the desire to look more original and appropriate for the period….and that includes removing the turn signals, even though it’s not a bad safety feature to have, although nowadays it seems no one uses their turn signals anyway, so I guess I’m not losing much by removing them.
Thanks again for educating me.
I think safety is always a good reason to do something, as that's the Achilles Heel of our antique cars. One thing I have done, when I have to take a 30s car on particularly busy roads, is slip on flashing bike lights to the trunk rack, one on each side. In effect, it's like having 4-way flashers visible from the rear, enough to signal to everyone to get out of the way. And they slip on and off in about 10 seconds. Here are the ones I use:
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2 hours ago, 32Mac said:
Showing my ignorance here, so feel free to set me straight. I am always willing and ready to learn. 😁
It's really just about fashion. As Bloo says above, there's a certain trend now towards more understated looks on 30s cars — understated colors, blackwalls, no extra lights, etc.— on the thinking that it's more likely matching how the cars looked new. That's in contrast to the fashion 20-30 years ago, which was to have more bling — whitewalls, extra lights, extra chrome, etc. This forum happens to have some vocal fans of the understated look. But it's kind of like the width of neckties, all in the eyes of the beholder.
Oh, and good for you for meeting up with Ed. He's good people, as they say.
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I think if it's optional, it's fine. I'm not so enthusiastic if it's a requirement.
Part of the "problem," I take it, is that we're so darn enthusiastic about helping. Someone somewhere in the world signs up for an account and writes, "I have an old car, seems antique. What is it worth? What should I do with it?" And then like 20 of us follow up with these long and details replies welcoming them and asking questions about it to give them guidance. Meanwhile, the poster is never heard from again....
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On 6/20/2023 at 4:19 PM, Su8overdrive said:
A late friend, owning a long succession of chiefly Gallic high end cars of the '30s, '40s, whose Delahaye took Bauble Beach's 2000 Best of Show, said they were better real world cars than Bugattis, and he'd owned two of those, a Type 57 and postwar continuation Type 101. But that comment could be ascribed to many makes. Most Delahayes were powered by a light/medium duty six-cylinder ohv truck engine, the equivalent of a French GMC, and with few exceptions, retained mechanical brakes through the end in 1954. This same fellow rightly remarked in the late '90s that it was "all over" for the big, boxy "Classics (a nebulous term)" of the early '30s, the only premium prewar cars holding their value being those with "swoop;" Lincoln Zephyrs and Continentals, Cadillacs, Buicks, Packard Darrins and Clippers, so custom bodied barouches like Delahayes held their own, style selling cars in the day and since.
For perspective, Hill & Vaughn's president, Raja Gargour, remarked in Road & Track's 1991 Salon of a straight eight ohv '37 Delage D8, the more premium and powerful offering of the Delahaye/Delage partnership, that he found it "less satisfying than a Packard" of the era, likely referring to a One-Twenty. But the six-cylinder Delahaye Type 135 was a sound, relatively affordable chassis for various ever sleekening Moderne stylings, hence their popularity today.
Ettore Bugatti drove a Packard Eight on long, fast Continental business trips. Ralph Stein preferred Alfa Romeos to Bugattis.
What hurts Delahayes today is that this hobby was more fun before the advent of nest-feathering auction house press release pomposity and janitorial d' non-elegances having little to do with the prewar European affairs at which cars judged solely on line, form, presence, perhaps driven to the hotel grounds in the rain the night before, a bit of mud still in the tire treads.
For greater perspective on Delahaye, Monsieur 1935 Packard, consider the schizophrenia in the CCCA. The most widely owned car among members is a 1941-47 Cadillac Series 62, sharing every piece of sheet metal with Pontiac, tho' offering HydraMatic, so you've got "Classic" golf carts. Yet the single most heavily posted CCCA forum thread is of the overrated, overblown Mercedes 500/540K, so there's a good deal of Walter Mittyism. However, if you can drive a well fettled Delahaye owned by a content, honest owner, you might abide it. Less the comic opera rear overhang and front fender skirts, such examples strictly for children of wealth on Paris's flat streets and the level Route Nationale. Their commonly fitted Cotal pre-select transmission, akin to England's Wilson unit, both more reliable than the 1936-37 Cords' four-speed version of the 1935-36 Hudson's Bendix "Electric Hand," enables you to drive as fast backwards as forwards.
Thanks, Su8overdrive., for the practical perspective. if they're stunning to look at, but not very useful as actual cars, that's not all that desirable to own. And it does seem notable that the only ones I have seen at CCCA events are a show car or two that was brought on and off the trailer.
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Another shot today, maybe better lighting.
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5 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
I think minimalism can be taken too far. Blackwalls, great. De-accessorizing, sure. But when you start removing one of the most iconic pieces of the car, well, I think that's a mistake. It was there when it was new, it's factory-made, and the cormorants weren't an aftermarket or rare accessory like a Lalique so I don't think it's showy or excessive. It belongs there. This is a top-of-the-line Packard, not a Model A Ford. It can be subtle but you don't need to erase what it is in the quest for peak subtlety.
Interesting perspective, thanks. If I knew the car came knew with a cormorant, I would stick with whatever it came with. The hood ornament on that 1951 picture isn't an original cormorant, though — if you look closely, the "wings" are post-war, so it was either a post-war cormorant welded to an older base or maybe some sort of JCTaylor-esque aftermarket thing — so it's lost to time what came with it originally. But fair point that it's not "showy" to have the cormorant on there.
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Thanks, AJ, Matt, glad you like it.
One more change I might make is to replace the cormorant with the "bail" radiator cap, for a real minimalist look. Hard to find, it seems, and I like seeing the tall cormorant when I drive. So maybe *too* understated. But if I can find one to buy, I'll try it out.
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I've owned my '35 for 16 years. During that time, I have always had whitewalls and only kept the original wheel discs on the spares. It has looked like this:
I needed new tires, so I decided it was time to switch to a new look. I have this picture of my car in 1951 (a family picture), with blackwalls and all the wheel discs on:
I decided to switch the car back to that. It's amazing what a difference it makes to the appearance. Here's the car on a ride today, with the picture made black and white to better match the 1951 photo.
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A color version is here:
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Still getting used to the new look, but on the whole I like it. Cosmetically (and this is all cosmetic, of course), the challenge is that the fenders are black, so you sort of lose the tires under the fenders. But I like the change of pace. And it makes AJ happy, which is something.
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4 hours ago, edinmass said:
Better yet, just buy a Pierce Arrow…….since the beginning of the club EVERY Pierce was accepted…….. because Pierce Arrow exclusively manufactured fine motor cars……….not so with most of the others……..But just try to buy a 1939 Pierce Arrow or one built after that. They won't even run!
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3 hours ago, Su8overdrive said:
Zeroed in on a Delahaye yet? Saw your question but haven't been on this site in a couple years.
No, still a dream. I'm a little worried that keeping it on the road is a bigger challenge than I need, too. So it's on the short list of "maybe somedays" but nothing likely to happen soon.
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I disagree; I think seat belts are marginally helpful. I think main role is helping the driver stay in control during a turn, preventing an accident from happening in the first place. Without a seatbelt, it's possible to slide over and lose your grip on the steering wheel or lose the placement on the pedals, with potentially very bad results. A seat belt helps the driver stay in control by keeping the driver in the driver's seat. (I would attach a lap belt to the seat, not the frame, for the hinge point reason vintage suggests.)
But as for the the type, I would just do a normal belt, not anything with a special kind of buckle. But I don't think the design matters much; it's just a question of taste, and they're all non-original anyway.
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Everyone knows there are lots of debates on what cars are CCCA eligible. This post is about a different question: The completely and unnecessarily confusing way the list of CCCA-approved classics is written. Take, in particular, the Packard entry. Here's the CCCA's list of eligible Packards:
All 1915-1922 6 and 12 cylinder models, except model 116; All 6, 8 and 12 cylinder 1923-1934; All 12 cylinder 1932 through 1939; 1935 and 1936: all 1200-1205 models, 1936 all 1400-1405 models, 1937 all 1500-1502 models, 1938 all 1603-1605 models, 1939 all 1703-1705 models; 1940: all 1803-1808 models; 1941: all 1903-1908 models, plus 160 and 180 Clippers; 1942: all 2003-2008 models, plus 160 and 180 Clippers; 1946-1947: all 2103, 2106, 2126 models; All Darrin Bodied, other custom bodies please apply
If you read this closely, it's a total mess of a description, and it would be very understandable for someone to have no idea if their car or another car was included. It should instead read something like this:
1915-1922 all 6 and 12 cylinder models, except model 116; 1923-1934 All 6, 8 and 12 cylinder models; 1935 all 1200 and higher models; 1936 all 1400 and higher models; 1937 all 1500 and higher models, 1938 all 1603 and higher models; 1939 all 1703 and higher models; 1940 all 1803 and higher models; 1941 all 1903 and higher models, plus 160 and 180 Clippers; 1942 all 2003 and higher models, plus 160 and 180 Clippers; 1946-1947 all 2103, 2106, 2126 models; All Darrin Bodied; other custom bodies, please apply.
I would think these sorts of non-substantive changes would be easy to make. They should be, to help members understand what cars are included and what cars are excluded.
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On 7/1/2023 at 6:45 AM, bryankazmer said:
The Olds-based LaSalles and 61 Caddy set up the main discussion - the 120. i don't see how it won't come in after the LaSalle/61.
I'm not sure. For the most part, the 34-40 LaSalles and Series 61 have the look and feel of the more expensive Cadillacs. (Maybe less so the '35s and '36 LaSalles, but they're very very attractive in their own right.) The 120 is unmistakenly a Packard, but side by side it's pretty different from the senior models. Maybe that's a thin reed, but it might be enough to keep them off the list....
Edited to Add: My only half-joking answer to which cars should be CCCA-eligible is based on how hard it is to find parts and how expensive they are. If the parts are impossible to find and cost you an absurd amount of money, it's CCCA-eligible. Otherwise, there are other clubs for you where the members can commiserate about other things.
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1 hour ago, 30DodgePanel said:
Is this the thread you were thinking of?
I think it was an earlier one in 2020 specifically about instrument panel lights.
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We had a thread on this a few years ago, I think, although I can't find it right now. Anyway, '34 Packard:
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14 hours ago, edinmass said:
61 SERIES Were not CCCA approved, as they were the low tier cars that shared body parts with other GM cars, I think the CCCA watered down the standards again, and allowed them in, but I recommend checking first if CCCA events are important to the new owner.
I believe the lastest is that every Cadillac from 1915-1947 is a CCCA car (plus the Series 75 in 1948). Also, all LaSalles are in.
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What a difference blackwalls & wheel discs makes (on a '35 Packard)
in Packard
Posted
For the few interested in the cormorant vs. cap mascot question, I did find a bale-wire cap and tried it on the car. (It's a little rough, but I figured I'll get it chromed later if I decide to use it.) I decided that the fans of the cormorant in this thread are right; the cap is just too plain. Especially with the silver paint, it just gets lost. I also have a goddess of speed, so maybe I'll use that as a compromise; my sense is that it's a little less grand than a cormorant. Choices, choices. choices.