LINC400

Looking at it now, it looks like someone sawed the roof off of a 4 door 1958-60 Mercury or Lincoln including windows and slapped it on backwards, and the fact that it is a different color than the rest of the car does not help lessen that image. However, this car was built in 1956, before Linc and Merc had those roofs. Wonder if it would have been better without that image in your head?

They screwed up way more than that. Shortly after the young pilot, Dean? announces it is 1963, they show a 1964 Chevy and 1967 Lincoln multiple times plus some others including a 1969 Mustang! Really, how hard can it be to just not use anything made after 1963? They have to pay for the wrong cars the same as they would for correct ones.

AACA is one of the few places that HPOF is recognized. But still, I bet a lot more of the comments regarding the wagon were because of people having fond memories of owning or parents owning one. Not because it is unrestored. Plus it is probably a much less common sight than a Model A. No offense, but just about every AACA or stock car show I have been to has at least one if not multiple Model A's. Maybe not phaetons, but still lots of A's around.

I attend everything. Cruise nights are fine for a little socializing and something to do other than sitting home. Local car shows are actually where my car gets no attention. Rat rods, goofy customs, and muscle cars rule there. I don't attend too many of those. Concours are nice, but not fond of the price and the fact that my car will never be accepted. You see top notch stuff, but I like a show I can actually go to with my car. AACA and other club shows are nice. I attend a lot of those type shows, but still overrestored is more likely to get the attention and trophies. One small cruise night I go to, the cars have never gone more than 20 miles from home. Mine has gone from Chicago to Detroit twice in the last 2 years. I'd rather be able to drive it like that than just collect local trophies. But still, whenever my car does attract attention, it is generally because of the color and interior, not because it is 90% original.

My car is a 1976, so 36 years old. Aside from 2 very annoying nickel sized rust spots, I think it still looks pretty good with its dents and scratches. However, the guys criticizing my car at the cruise night were supposed "car guys" with their own cars. In fact a Lincoln collector I know also has a 1976 Givenchy. He was telling me how he had it all redone, new paint, new vinyl top, etc. I was not happy hearing this thinking my car would now look like crap next to his. Finally got both cars together. He tried, but the paint color does not quite match and does not look as good. Vinyl top does not look quite correct either. Yet it would probably get the trophy at any show due to mine having rust and dings, and his not. I still prefer mine though (actually I think he did too, at least the paint color). Original condition is getting some attention, but is still not widely recognized yet. Plus, as I said, it still doesn't seem to count for 1970's cars. Add to that the confusing use of the term. Some mean not customized, while others think 1/2 the car repainted 20 years ago and replaced interior at the same time still qualifies as original. Even at survivor shows, IMO a 90% original car that looks good should get the trophy over a 60% original one that looks a little better. But that doesn't happen. And it is just odd in the hobby that an original car starts a big uproar over preserve vs. restore, but not many seem to have an issue with street rodding that same car (outside of AACA that is).

At a recent cruise night, some people asked me if my car was the original color. I said not only is it the original color, but it is the original paint. After that they had to walk around my car and point out every single flaw it had. It was not being officially judged, this was just some guys being jerks. I really don't care about trophies. I've gotten a couple, and was excited when I got them. After that, they just sit around and collect dust. But it is very annoying when your car is ignored because of some overrestored trailer queen or never leaves a 10 mile radius from home car. Or when your car is ignored because of some ridiculously customized thing that you wonder if it is even legal to drive. Another thing is that original 1970's cars are not considered a big deal, but for 1950's and earlier it is. Well those pre-1950's cars would not be still original at 60+ years old if they weren't when they were 30 years old as well. Also I don't get the big deal about HPOF should not be restored or repainted, but chopping, cutting and channeling is a different story. That increases the value.

Lincoln

As far as body, paint a little thin in spots, few minor rust spots and dents are ok. Major rust, damage, etc, should just be repainted. My car is the original color, which apparently cannot be duplicated with current formulas/chemicals, so it will not get repainted for a few spots and dents. However, I know of a 1957 Eldorado Brougham, black paint dull and spider cracked, was in an accident and repaired in the 1970's and has black paint cracking off the mint green replacement fender. He is "keeping it original". It should be repainted IMO. Basically the older it is, the more forgiving of flaws, but if it looks like something pulled out of a junkyard or swamp, it should just be restored. Same deal with interior, a few flaws ok. If shredded, just reupholster. Most annoying are claims of "all original, so it is being preserved" when it was repainted in the 1960's and reupholstered in the 1970's. That is not original. If it doesn't look good, just restore it.

If you are using anything 15 years old or older as a daily driver, it probably had way more color choices than what is available today, so that is really not a fair comparison. Also if you have repainted your daily in non-authentic colors, that is not a fair comparison either. When you buy new, you are stuck with what is available. I don't think too many people would pay $30,000+ for a brand new car, and then have it repainted just to change the color.

True. Try finding a domestic full or mid-size 2 door. I refuse to buy a 4 door. But I was limiting the comments to color, the topic of the post. Even blandmobile 4 door appliances would be a little more interesting in vivid colors.

This is not going to be accurate as far as seeing if people want more interesting colors for 2 reasons. 1. For the last 10+ years, color choices have been much more limited. So if I buy a new car, even tho I would want some exciting color, it is not going to happen if all that is available is shades of gray. So if I buy a gray car, that does not mean it is what I wanted. In fact both daily drivers are rather bland colors. But we complained about the bland color choices when we bought them and were not happy about it. 2. Purple, Pink, Coral, etc. are far more adventurous color choices than plain red as would be classified by your chart. Same with bright aqua, lime green, chartreuse, etc. not being the same as a dull dark green.

So according to this list, I exhibit "wholeness"? What is that supposed to mean? I guess it's better than half a$$ed?

Building 1000 of a fleet car, and ordering a single one in a special color is a bit of a difference. I can see working with a fleet buyer to secure those and repeat sales, but for one car? Besides, most fleet/commercial cars I see are now repainted, not painted from the factory that way. I recall the post about the Buick with Cadillac paint. However, I think that was a 1970? Things have changed since then, and they didn't even want to do it back then.

I have heard that they did this in the 1950's, '60's, and '70's. However, there were the same lack of colors when we bought our 2006 Monte Carlo SS new. The dealership told us there was nothing they could do about it, and how other customers took brand new cars and had them repainted elsewhere. If it is not a regular color, I highly doubt that GM is going to stop or hold up the computerized production line for one order. I doubt anyone would pay for how much that diversion would cost, surely a lot more than $325.

There are 2 posts on this same car. More suggested it on the other post.

Yes, but right now its most interesting feature is its extremely low mileage. Once you start driving it, especially on a regular basis, that goes away.

OK, so this car is not a big ticket item, and will not be worth a fortune. And it is not anything highly collectible or desireable. But still, it is a less common 2 door version that looks to be in pretty good shape with only 8,400 miles on it at 32 years old. Seems a shame that the only thing anybody wants to do with it is drive into the ground as a daily driver instead of preserving it as a very low mileage original. So much for HPOF.

No, but I want to see pictures of the 1959 Chrysler hearse.

Hopefully there is more to AACA than Hershey. Hershey is great if you live near there. But many people live in the midwest and on the west coast. I have been there once in all the years I have been interested in antique cars. It is nice, but will not be a regular event for me considering the distance, and the fact there there are many good shows much, much closer to me. I bet many people from the midwest and west coast have never even been to Hershey. So it is kind of a turn off if Hershey is promoted as the only big event, and you can never get to it.

There is no reason why a 1978 Thunderbird cannot be used as a daily driver. I had a 1979 Cougar (the Mercury twin), and used it as a daily driver for years, as well as 1978 and 1979 Continental Mark V's which are even larger. If you are familiar with the car and get used to driving it, the size will be no problem. It has a short wheelbase for its length, and excellent handling for its size. However, some people are not capable of handling anything larger than a Honda. I did not have much luck with the 302 V-8 though, and would not recommend one that is over 100,000 miles. They are also rather slow. If it is a 400, it should be no problem. I've never owned one with a 351, so I don't know how those are. The worst thing would be 11-15 mpg city/hwy with current gas prices regardless of engine size. They all get about the same. But gas would be much cheaper than payments and insurance on a new fuel efficient car. I also would not recommend it if you live in an area with snow and salt in the winter. It might look good now, but several months of snow and salt will bring lots of hidden rust to the surface, and it will look terrible in no time. If you live in an area without snow and salt, no problem.

I would be interested to see that. I don't see how it should take multiple pages to explain what an orphan is. For the Chicago area shows, it is a manufacturer no longer in business. A discontinued division, or discontinued model name. I disagree with the discontinued model names of existing divisions part. But I guess they have to put that in to get the Corvairs in there (since they host one of the shows). But then as stated, it makes no sense that they allow some model names, like Falcon and Nova, But not others such as Eldorado Brougham or Continental.

All Imperials are recognized, even though pre-1954 and 1981-83 are actually Chryslers. Continental Mark II is also, but no other years. As I said earlier, it is rather vague as they allow Falcons and Novas here since those names are no longer made. I disagree with that. Yet they also refused to let in a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham. Eldorado Brougham was discontinued after 1960. And even regular Eldorados are no longer made. So it makes no sense in some cases. One show was allowing only pre-1959 Pontiac, Olds, Mercury, and Plymouths to keep the showfield from being overrun by 1960's muscle and high production cars. I thought this was a good idea as I do not want to go to an orphan show that looks like any neighborhood cruise nite. But I think that idea was dropped because too many people complained.

I think that the "we need to attract younger people" mindset is highly overrated. I bet in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, etc. the average age of AACA and many other clubs as well were in the senior citizen age group. Reaching out to educate younger people is fine. New technology such as online forums, facebook pages, emailed magazines, etc. are also fine. But I do not think that clubs should be changing what they stand for in order to allow modifieds, customs, or cars that would otherwise not have fit the club just to possibly attract new younger members. This will upset more current member than it will attract new younger members. I am nowhere near senior citizen age, and I like stock vehicles. There are very few clubs for stock vehicles only. So if they started allowing rods and customs, I would no longer be interested in them. There are way more clubs that cater to rods and customs than stock preservation. So if that is what some people are interested in, they have more than enough clubs to choose from without changing the ones that recognize stock preservation. Also, I think the Chicago Museum of Natural History is a good example. It was built in 1893 and retained much of its original interior. Display cases were solid wood, mahogany or walnut or something, in excellent original condition. the museum itself was a historic artifact. Now they have painted many of the display cases in pink, purple, and bright blue with cartoon characters all over because they think they need to appeal to children more. Amazing that for 100 years, children could be educated and learn things there. But now they cannot unless it is presented in the form of a cartoon. I think this is a big mistake in that children will not be able to relate to anything unless it is presented in simplified cartoon form. In the same way, I think it is a mistake to change clubs just to maybe appeal to some younger members. On the other hand, many of the people on this very forum state younger members are needed, but then insult post -1970's cars in stock form that some younger members collect as used junk - not real antiques.

There are shows like this in the Chicago area as well. Orphan is rather vaguely defined at each show. Even though Ford and Chrysler are still around, Edsel and DeSoto seemed to fit in quite well with the orphans. You are not going to find parts or support at your local Ford or Chrysler dealer. But with the recent demise of Plymouth and Oldsmobile, and now Pontiac and Mercury, the lines are getting a lot more blurred. I really disagreed with Corvair being considered an orphan since not only GM, but Chevrolet is still around. But the Corvair club hosts the bigger and better of the 2 shows, so you really can't tell them they are not allowed at their own show. The other is sponsored by the Oldsmobile club.

Yes, it was indeed intake manifold gaskets. Not cheap, but not as much as I expected.