carbking
-
Posts
4,683 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Content Type
Forums
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by carbking
-
-
Daryl - lost your phone number.
Please call 573-392-7378
I found the adapter.
Jon
-
1 hour ago, Buick35 said:
Thanks for the information.Are the Holley 94s any better than the Strombergs? And how hard at they to find?!
Ask 10 folks this question and you will probably have 6 one way and 5 the other (someone will change their mind).
Personally, any Stromberg is preferable to any Holley.
In the case of the EE-1 (Stromberg) versus the AA-1 (Holley), the Stromberg has a brass mechanical power system; the Holley a neoprene vacuum power system. The mechanical power system may be mechanically tuned. The vacuum system relies on engine vacuum from an engine different than yours. Backfires can be murder on neoprene power valves.
And the AA-1's are common as dirt! (maybe for a reason
) I have at least a hundred of them, including one (a model 59) mechanically and cosmetically restored on ebay at this time.
Jon
-
1 hour ago, BlueDevil said:
I looked at the MB-1's and the bore is 1 3/16"??? I wonder if that is enough to feed 3 cylinders?
The Stromberg and Zenith design flow more per thottle bore than the SU's.
My records sometimes conflict, and other times things actually change.
I am showing the early Chrysler 72 to be a 219 CID, and later changed to a 249 CID. I am not QUITE that old, so must rely on bore/stroke information published in period publications.
A single Stromberg MB-1 fueled a Paige 249 CID 4 cylinder.
Its larger brother, the MB-2 fueled a number of different 312 CID engines.
And the Zenith HP-5A fueled a number of different 303 CID engines.
If you plan to actually race this engine competitively, probably either the two of the MB-2 or the HP-5A would be superior to the MB-1.
A pair of the MB-1's would probably only lose a few ponies, but some would be lost.
Individual intake extensions should set the carbs out far enough for exhaust clearance.
Keep us posted.
Jon
-
1
-
-
While the larger engine Buicks were still stuck with Marvels only, Buick started using the Stromberg as well on the 40 series beginning in 1934. Two different Stromberg type EE-1 were used; one with a standard air cleaner, the other with a heavy duty air cleaner.
In 1936, Buick added Stromberg as a second vendor on the larger engined Buicks as well.
Jon
-
2
-
-
The key in the question is 4400 feet.
In 1940, the major passenger carburetor companies in the USA (Carter, Holley, and Stromberg) specified different calibrations for most of their carburetors.
Carter
Sea level ~ 4000 feet - standard calibration
4000 ~ 6000 feet - 1 size lean
6000 ~ 7000 feet - 2 sizes lean
above 7000 feet - 3 sizes lean
Holley - parameters were sea level to 5000, 5000 to 10000, 10000 to 15000, Stromberg the same as Carter
Holley and Stromberg effected leaner calibration by using smaller orifice jets.
Carter effected leaner calibration by using thicker metering rods.
Please note these are some fairly wide altitude ranges, and as mentioned in the article, susceptible to the daily weather.
So a racer that is attempting to maximize power on a given day at a given track, where horsepower increments may be critical if even 1 percent, the racer is going to calibrate his/her carburetor right before EACH RACE!
But for the average enthusiast driving a street car, breaking into a different range for a few miles, is NOT going to be a big deal.
So back to my first comment. If 4400 feet is the maximum that vehicle is going to see, find something else to worry about.
But if one is going to live (not pass through) an area where the altitude is around 5000 feet, one might consider a leaner calibration.
What is MORE CRITICAL than too rich a calibration is one that is too lean. Take the same 5000 feet altitude from the previous statement. If the vehicle then takes its owner to an ocean beach, the engine is going to be too lean part of the time. Again, passing into a range where one is slightly lean is not going to be a huge problem, but if moving, then the carburetor should be recalibrated.
Not an advertisement, but a statement of fact: as we have the capability of fabricating metering rods, we have sold hundreds of metering rods for Carters as early as the early 1930's, and as late as the 1970's, to residents of Colorado. It slightly improves power (due to spark plugs not fouling), but it will improve fuel economy and reduced ignition maintenance. And since Carter used the metering rods for calibration, much easier than either the Strombergs or the Holleys, as the carb does not need to come apart.
Finally, one needs to consider the effects of ethanol. E10 is about 4 percent leaner than gasoline. So this change will enter into the range. We suggest to folks that live in Colorado that live at 5000 feet (1 size lean according to Carter) and using E10 to just keep the standard calibration.
Jon
-
3
-
4
-
-
The original valves had a groove at the top, and a clip that Rube Goldberg would have been ashamed of, that attached the valve to the hinge assembly. Thus when the float dropped, so did the valve. When it worked.
Jon
-
1
-
-
George, no I have never seen one, but can offer a bit of information:
I have a copy of the same ad you posted from 1905, and here is an article from 1906:
Jon
-
1
-
-
Without pulling one apart, I don't remember if the design was used in 1922; but the later Cadillac (Johnson) carburetors utilized a two float pin mechanism with an embedded hinge that allowed the float to almost move straight up and down (when there was zero wear, and the design worked). This allows the float to have more volume, hence more buoyancy, as chunks do not have to be cut out of the float due to dropping at an angle. The float pins were held in place by the side of the bowl.
Just one more reason to love these carburetors
Jon
-
1
-
-
In addition to the Chrysler designed BBR's made by Carter, Stromberg offered several different versions of the BXVES-3 for these applications.
There were 4 different versions Stromberg indicates were for O.E. use from 1949 through 1952, and 2 additional versions sold only as replacement versions for the applications from 1941 through 1948.
The Stromberg was basically an adaptation of their standard type BXV carb, and (opinion) is light years ahead of the Chrysler designed BBR. The only downside to the Stromberg is they were apparently used on fewer vehicles, so today are scarce and expensive.
If I owned one of these cars, it would have a Stromberg.
Jon
-
Actually, there are 3 of the electro-magnet assemblies used on Carter carbs.
The 2-terminal pictured is part number 213-11s, and was used on 12 different type BBR single barrel carbs.
The 1-terminal pictured is part number 213-12s, and was used on 3 different BBR single barrel carbs.
A second 2-terminal not pictured is part numbe 213-14s and was used on on several WCD 2-barrel carbs.
Carter does not show any interchanges, or one superseding another.
There was also a Stromberg used on some applications.
As to the function, I will leave that question to those who know more about transmissions than I.
Jon
-
1
-
-
15 hours ago, m-mman said:
Naw, my cars were all originally shipped with Ford-Motorcraft 2 & 4 barrels and that’s what they remain. A good carb that can sit for long periods, wake up with a prime and run without complaints. 🤓
They are still Holleys, just different.
Autolite/Motorcraft bought carbs from Carter, Holley, and Stromberg and added their tag. I don't know who built the Autolite 1100 (single barrels), but I have Holley sheets with Holley part numbers on the 2100/4100 carbs.
Jon
-
1
-
1
-
-
Sounds like a very interesting project!
Jon
-
What is the configuration of the intake ports?
Can you do 3 non-connected intake manifolds (each manifold and carb feeds two cylinders)?
Jon
-
I cannot say what is possible in fuel economy with the Riv. I have never really tried to find out.
A long time ago, a good friend had a "mechanic" rebuild and install a Buick dual quad on his wife's '66 Skylark, with the progressive linkage. The guy had no idea what he was doing with the linkage, and the car would barely run. My friend brought it to me, and I fixed the linkage to work the way it was supposed to work. Car was still a dog in city driving (have no idea the rear end ratio). He was about ready to sell the car (convertible) and I then suggested lets try some different carbs. I took off the factory AFB's and replaced them with a pair of 400 CFM AFB's and set up the linkage up as 1:1.
Car literally became alive!
On the highway, she was able to obtain around 19~20 (before ethanol); but in town she probably didn't get 7~8. She certainly did not follow gungeey's advice with the egg! Probably would have needed a couple of dozen to get home from the store!
I don't think the rear tires lasted very long either. Oh, and if you like song lyrics, she was not an old lady, she wasn't from Pasadena, but she sure had fun.
M-mman - if you replace those romantic Holleys that fall in love with every gas station with Carters, some of the FE get good mileage!
Jon
-
3
-
-
Major brands:
Stromberg L, LB, LF
Stromberg MB
Stromberg OS, also OF (Ford), OD (Dodge)
Zenith HK
Zenith HP
Others
Rayfield
Schebler D, R
Kingston
Smaller carbs
Holley NH (Ford)
Kingston
Aftermarket
Air Friction
Not sure from memory when Riley made his first carb, think it was later.
There is probably a Winfield in this category.
Those from memory, surely there are others.
The Stromberg and Zenith are the most expensive, and by far the easiest to work with; and (opinion) the "cream of the crop".
The Kingston L4 and Holley NH are probably the easiest to find and the cheapest, and by far the most difficult to work with.
Many to choose from.
Once you have made your decision, patience will be your best friend, and money your second best friend
Jon
-
3
-
-
No problem.
573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time).
Jon
-
1
-
-
WOW! 2 new in 2 days, I am on a roll!
Updated 7 May - acquired the 641s off of ebay.
Updated want list:
Numbered 257s, 262s, 586s, 638s, 640s, 2035s, 2212s, 3377s, 4403s
Coded 4A1, 6A1, 6B1, 6B2, 6C1, 6C2, 6D1, 6F1, 6J2, 6J3, 6K3, 6N1
Surely someone has some of these squirreled away.
Will buy, trade for, whatever; and I have some pretty good trade bait!
Jon
-
1
-
-
Updated 6 May - acquired the 6K2 off of ebay.
Acquisition of different models REALLY slowing.....
Updated want list:
Numbered 257s, 262s, 586s, 638s, 640s, 641s, 2035s, 2212s, 3377s, 4403s
Coded 4A1, 6A1, 6B1, 6B2, 6C1, 6C2, 6D1, 6F1, 6J2, 6J3, 6K3, 6N1
Surely someone has some of these squirreled away.
Will buy, trade for, whatever; and I have some pretty good trade bait!
Jon
-
Mick - there are 4 distinct "generations" of the Carter YH:
(1) Corvette and Nash
(2) Mid to late 1950's marine
(3) 1960 to mid-1964 Corvair and marine
(4) Mid-1964 to 1966 Corvair
There are some other "oddballs" (Clark Cortez motor home, Latham Supercharger, etc.) which I don't remember the generation, but 2, 3, or 4.
IN GENERAL:
Most parts from 1 are interchangeable with each other, but NOT with 2, 3 or 4 (a few parts like jets, diaphragms, and fuel valves are interchangeable with 2, 3, and 4). Floats and metering rods are NOT.
Most parts other than actual castings and throttle arms, from 2, 3, and 4 are interchangeable.
So if you use the Nash carbs, and need a float, you either have to find an additional donor Nash carb, or compete in price with the deep-pocketed Corvette folks. Also, be aware that the USA FLAPS kits have an incorrect bowl cover gasket for gen 1 carbs. I do not know what you have available in Australia. Better kits with the correct gaskets are available (mail order) here in the USA.
The marine versions of the YH got a horrible reputation on the Great Lakes 60 years ago, as "mechanics" would rebuild using the cheap FLAPS kits with the solid needle and seat, and the carbs WOULD leak. Not the carb's fault because the "mechanics" used the wrong parts, but guess who got the blame!
The gen 3 and 4 carbs have been in demand for decades due to the popularity of the turbo-Corvairs.
And "leak tubes" on all carbs are a great idea.
Jon
-
1
-
-
Mick - I have not personally done a Buick (that I remember) in this fashion, but have helped several others with selection and calibration.
The easiest (at least here in the USA) YH carbs to find in quantity (you will NEED to use 4 matching carburetors) are Dearborn Marine from the mid to late 1950's.
The tag numbers are 2617s and 2618s. The 2618s superseded the 2617s. These TWO NUMBERS may be mixed or matched.
The needle and seat SHOULD be the original Carter style spring-loaded version.
The jets and metering rods SHOULD START with the original calibration for the carburetors, then as necessary, one may "tune" from there.
Most of the folks were have helped do this have done individual manifolds for each of the carburetors.
EDIT: got called away from the computer. First, apologies to the moderators, as this is a restoration forum; you might find additional results at the "jalopy journal" website. As to linkage, most folks try to fabricate a "rotating bar" with individual adjustable linkages to the individual carbs. This allows synchronization of the carburetors. Once this has been accomplished, linkage to rotate the bar will then allow all carbs to act together.
Remember: the key to making this work is to start with 4 identical carburetors (or the 2617s/2618s mentioned above). Trying to use mis-matched carburetors is a certain increase in Bayer sales
)
Jon
-
Marvel lists the carburetor for this application as a 10-517.
Jon
-
2
-
-
5 hours ago, StillOutThere said:
The car is now marked sold.
I have no problem whatsoever with someone driving their collector car with any temporary replacement FAR more efficient paper element air cleaner. These cars came with oil baths after all. Guessing, as nice as that car is, that the factory air cleaner is in a box on the shelf or in the trunk.
Car looks to have been a great bargain at the asking price.
A paper element air cleaner is NOT necessarily more efficient than a properly maintained oil bath (in fact, it may be less efficient); but it is CERTAINLY far less maintenance, and a wee bit less messy.
Jon
-
3
-
-
If you should go ahead with a Carter YF, the one for the 240/250/300 is too large for the DG. A better choice would be a YF from a Ford 200 CID 6. The one for the larger Ford would work fairly well on a Dodge DK or a Chrysler CD.
Like the Strombergs I mentioned in my earlier post, specification sheets AND parts are readily available for the YF series.
Jon
-
1
-
-
Stromberg produced a number of BXV-3 carbs and at least 1 BXUV-3 carb in the late 1930's calibrated for the Dodge engine.
For all of these, specifications AND parts are readily available.
I have not personally used one of the Daytona carbs (nor do I plan to). One guy on Stovebolt loves his that he put on a 235.
We have sold a couple of replacement Strombergs to folks that DIDN'T love theirs.
You might ask the vendor selling these for a complete specifications page so you could compare the specs to original, and also ask who sells rebuilding kits? Floats? Etc.? Bad gas happens.
Jon
-
1
-
) I have at least a hundred of them, including one (a model 59) mechanically and cosmetically restored on ebay at this time.
Pump Fuel Stink?
in Buick Riviera
Posted
But if you DO change more than 1 item, and something goes wrong, it is ALWAYS the carburetor, because it sits right up on top where it can be seen!
Jon