Buicks Rule

What it will probably take is someone with the time to donate who will attend many area car shows, set up and publicize meetings, and send out snail or email reminders to those who have shown interest. Dave--if this is something that you can find time to do, it might be a good time to step forward. For any chapter to get off the ground there has to be at least one person willing to make keeping things functioning a large part of his/her life. Good luck.

Reliable, common and cheap cruise control.

Dave, The gold and green 58 4 doors are Supers-just like the white one. The rear quarter window shape and lack of rocker mouldings make it a Super, even though the nameplate is not visible on the rear quarter/trunk.

I-25 Ramada Inn area 10 east 120th avenue? Southeast corner of freeway and cross street/exit ramp.

Keith, I seem to recall that as chapter coordinator, you HAVE to attend the National Meet, regardless of when or where it is. I could be wrong but I think it's in the SOP's. So, it's good you're planning on making the trip.....

Actually, the Antique/historical/street rod vehicle plates in AZ are solid copper, not copper colored, with red letters. They also add $25 PER YEAR to your registration fee so they aren't super popular with the speeding/racing crowd and probably won't end up changing. The 1973 issue regular plates were kind of an orangy paint with green letters. There's still a few around as the next issue was in 1980-red with white reflective letters. The sun usually did a good job of cracking the orange paint so most that are still on cars are wrinkle finish by this point. Oh for those eastern states that charge a one time fee for antique/collector cars and provide permanent plates. Of course the new car folks here get to pay 3% of the MSRP as a license fee-regardless of how much you actually pay for the car, the MSRP determines the license fee forever. The fee does reduce a bit each year. After about 10 years , a $24,000 car will have a $100 license fee.

Employee pricing--sounds almost like underpricing Toyotas in the 70's to gain market share and convince the $ conscious shopper of their quality, longevity, low repair incidence/cost. Before you can get repeat customers-you have to get CUSTOMERS. Funny--the employee price has been available for quite a while for people who work for the right company. Work for a company that does a lot of business with GM/FORD/CHRYSLER--you got it--you get the special employee price--and have for years. Work for the right charity/nonprofit--you get a special deal too. Wonder if that includes some of the automotive journalists that are decrying this new marketing ploy? What are the employee pricing policies of Toyota/Nissan/Honda? Do their employees pay list price or do they get a deal too? Is it on the order of 30% like the big three? Do they extend this 'courtesy discount' to the employees of major vendors/companies that do a lot of business with them? When Sloan went after Ford in the 20's, they did it by offering a superior car at a low price. Then the customer came back to Chev/Pont/Oak/Olds/Buick for their next car.... Just like the Corolla customer in the 70's went back for another Toyota because their first one IMPRESSED them. And, who probably had no qualms at all about buying their first Lexus when Toyota decided to go after the high $ market. Walmart hasn't become the juggernaut it is by selling at the maximum price the market will bear. I have exactly the opposite view of Matt on this. GM/Ford/Chrysler have finally realized that they are going to HAVE to deal with the fact of life in the US ( outside the ivory tower of Detroit/UAW hourly rate/union state/union benefits ) that price sells, and that most of the country does NOT have the hourly rate/benefits that UAW and auto management earns. They've got the quality up. They've got the fuel mileage up in most CARS. They've got solid product that should be long lived and relatively trouble free as most platforms are older builds so they should have the bugs worked out. Tooling is paid for. Cut the per unit profit down---sell, sell, sell and create a base of satisfied customers that in 5 years or so will be IMPRESSED with the service they have gotten and will return to that manufacturer or at least stop there first when they go shopping. Maybe this is the first step in rationalizing this whole pricing issue whereby the 'employee' price and the regular person price will become closer over all. AKA employees no longer get such a ganga and the MSRP/Sticker becomes a more rational $ figure as well. Reality is they are making money at the employee price. Maybe not a lot per unit but they ARE making money. And, they are making sales. Lots of sales. If the cars are as good as they should be, they are building a foundation for repeat sales in future years.

Ryan, I would post on the other forums as well. Buick has a Pre-War forum as well as a general. It sounds like you're looking for first hand information but you might also want to consider some other options. 40's era opera singer James Melton was an early colletor. His book "Bright Wheels Rolling" not only talks about his first family car but also the chase in later life trying to find and buy the first he remembered his uncle purchasing. I think it was a White. The book was published in the 50's but I'm sure some bookstore or library in the LA area has a copy available. As I recall, he purchased quite a few early cars from their original owners and recounted some of the stories in the book. The book was the story of his auto museum/experiences in the hobby so.... Good luck. Sounds like a very interesting project.

Ryan, What about people whose first car, albeit used, was from the 1900-1930 era? There may be quite a few folks still around whose first car was a Model T or other car from the Twenties, even though they got that car in the 30's-50's. Good luck,

You may not want to do that. Going with a 65 hi-po 300 cast iron head motor and working switch pitch can give amazing performance and better economy if you're driving it a lot. Speaking from experience, the 11 to 1 300 gives up very little to the later hi-po Buick 350/THM 350 combo. However, the 350/350 is good for 10-14 mpg. The 300 is usually good for 16-20 mpg. In my experience, the drive is actually better with the 300 and switch pitch than with the 350 and THM 350. BTW--the throttle link and shifter on the 350 is cable operated while the 300 uses levers. I don't think the original throttle link will bolt to the 350's intake manifold.

STAR was part of the Durant Motors empire that was started by B Durant after his second ousting from General Motors. There is a Durant Forum that is part of this one. You might try posting there.

Wanted Right front wheel opening stainless moulding for 65 Skylark. PM me through the forum or email schoen@noao.edu

Yes. It does OK IF and only IF ALL rubber parts in the fuel system are replaced with NEW not NOS rubber parts that are designed to survive alcohol fuels. This means ALL hoses, gaskets, that come in contact with fuel. The EPA mandates alcohol for part of the year in many locations so those of you that drive to distant events may find yourselves running 10-15% alcohol without realizing it. The sign for partial year usage of oxygenated ( alcohol ) fuels is about the size of the octane label--usually--and is NOT necessarily on every pump even though the fuel is the same for all pumps. Also-alcohol is a fantastic solvent. It will release all the years of built up crud in the gas tank plugging fuel lines, fuel filters, and even fuel pumps. The straight 8's run a low enough compression they probably won't care once the rubber issues are solved. The nailheads don't seem to be bothered by it even the higher compression ones--but mileage does drop. MTBE is FAR, FAR worse mileage wise and pollution wise.

Asphalt. On a hot, steamy day a grass field can be a steam room as the humidity rises from the ground. Plus, no worries about mud, loose ground, getting stuck.

CARS in NJ has reproduction Buick tri-shield mats. Black with white shield/ring. They look good, are correct and fit. The 'custom' rubber mats offered by another vendor with GS or Skylark on them don't fit anything well and really don't work on the 65's with the floor mounted gas pedal.

Make sure it's full of fluid. Dyna won't go if she's low. And, Dyna can be surprisingly thirsty if she's gone dry from sitting.

Dave, I would like to see GM move to the next generation alternative fuel vehicle. Frankly, although not fancy, the 3.8 has amazing performance and truly amazing gas mileage while remaining long lived, easy to drive and relatively easy and relatively inexpensive to maintain/repair. Rather than spending engineering time and $ building another gasoline engine that produces LESS POWER, LESS TORQUE and uses MORE FUEL than the 3.8, GM should be spending the time and $ developing next gen hybrid OR Hydrogen OR CNG or WHATEVER. I just don't see the postive in producing a new engine that uses MORE fuel than the engine it is replacing and makes less power/less useful power doing it. BTW--my in town driving is truly in town. Lots and lots of idling with A/C on ( AZ you know ), yet we're still doing better mileage and performance wise than most Accords/Camrys/Taurus. MY expectation when an engine is taken out of production is that the NEW powertrain produce MORE power, MORE Torque and use LESS FUEL doing it. That is NOT the case with the 3.6 in the LaCrosse vs the 3.8 in anything else. I just don't see it as a step forward when the replacement powertrain appears to be inferior to the one being replaced--especially in FUEL mileage. Hope you enjoy your new car. Wish I could have afforded my Riv new, but I purchased it as a 5 year old used car. In the time I've owned it, it has earned my respect for its performance/engineering/luxury and fuel economy. Those who know me, know that is NOT easy for a car to do-particularly a FWD six cylinder. The last gen Riv's were truly worthy of the name Riviera and the name Buick. My Riv's previous owner moved over to a Caddy CTS. He wants the Riv back as the Caddy has not been a positive experience.

Dave, Try pulling up the crash data for the 95-98 Olds Aurora. That shared platforms with the Riv. The Roadmaster shared--ummm--absolutely nothing with the Riv.

Oh why not! The auto press and others simply won't acknowledge the quality of the 3.8. Funny--we're in the midst of an oil crisis. I'm driving a 98-99 Series 2 Supercharged 3.8 Riv. In town gas mileage is ALWAYS 22.9-24.0 mpg and highway is ALWAYS 28.5--30.0 mpg at constant 75 mph. ALWAYS. Yet, Dave@Moon's government fuel economy website dramatically underestimates this. It has plenty of useable power, luxury and most importantly in the time of $50 fill ups, goes a long way between fill ups. Thanks to messing up in the 70's with wildly unrealistic mileage claims that NO ONE could actually achieve, the auto manufacturers aren't believed when they mention this attribute yet it is one that BUICK ought to exploit. POWER, PERFORMANCE AND FUEL ECONOMY---What a novel idea! I've also driven rental LeSabres with the 3.8 that were happily giving 33-35 mpg highway again at 75 mph. Gottah have those multivalve, overhead cammer engines that need 6 gears, lotsa revs and a 4.0 to 1 drive ratio to make'em move to keep up with the imports ( and make the automotive press happy ). Too bad they use more fuel while they're doing it. Glad to know that the last BUICK I will be considering will be made in 2009. Wonder if they'll have a convertible by then. Oh well, as FORD says, Mustangers have more fun! Yeah-I know--A Prius gets better mileage. But my Riv gets better fuel economy than many, many much smaller cars.

Just remember to send deposit checks with those letters. Just like when one of us sells a collector Buick, it's a lookie loo phone call until money changes hands.

Sorry W, The folks I mentioned had no problem with dealer or dealer personnel or treatment. They were ready to write the check--UNTIL they SAW the CAR in the flesh. I'm sure the dealership experience didn't help the issue as it sounds like confusion. You can't sell a dream like it was a toaster. The pricing issue is an issue. Regardless of actual quality, GM is perceived of building lower quality cars. To re-gain a young customer base they are going to HAVE to either learn from Sloan and their own history and build a MUCH, MUCH better car for a few extra dollars ( see Chevy vs. Model T ) OR if that's just too much ancient history then check out Toyota/Honda in the seventies. Build it decently, sell it cheaply and convince the customer that it was a great value--then they'll come back, and back, and back, and back..... I too have looked at the GTO in person. Can't even get interested in it enough for a test drive. It's boring on the outside, boring on the inside and is powered by a generic Chevy 350---YAWN!! Can't wait to see the new drop top Mustang. Might even buy one. Nothing in the current GM line says buy me. And a 10 year old Holden that looks like a 92 Grand Prix with a nose job isn't going to do it. New Magnum also looks cool and it's got a HEMI. Anybody wanna make a bet as to which of Ford or GM innovates their way out of junk bond status through quality products? I'm a seeing lots of Mustangs out there on the roads. Don't think I've ever seen a GTO on the hoof--but plenty have been stacked up on dealer lots. Oh well-wait and see. Maybe Buick will be allowed to build SOMETHING with 2 doors, a drop top, a decent price entry point, decent performance options.

Yeah guys, this is a GTO with a PR write up and a nose job. Seriously--how many of you would be willing to write your dealer a check for $5000 TODAY and have him/her hold it until 2007 to reserve your car. NONREFUNDABLE unless GM declines to produce the car. Didn't think so. A whole bunch of folks made the same promises about the new GTO, some even placed orders. Then when they saw the car in person, they walked away from the built car. That's just gotta make dealers jump for joy at the prospect of another GM GTO fiasco.. GM has a part of this too. $38500 is priced TOO HIGH! At $18,500 it would sell like bunless hamburgers at an Atkins convention. And, it would sell to YOUNG PEOPLE ( the ones that buy "hot" Hondas ) who would suck up the insurance bill $ to get the performance. At $28,500 it moves into the young family category incomewise. Sorry guys--fighting a child safety seat into/out of the back seat of a two door car submarines that purchase in about 36 seconds. At $38,500 the only people who can afford the car can afford other marques that have retained much more of a performance cachet than Buick ( or GM ), or are GM Employees/Retirees ( who buy the silly car for $30K and wonder why no one else will pay nearly $40K for the same car.....) Ford's got a winner with the Mustang--mild at $20K and wilder cost more. I'd still by a Mustang CVT or even coupe before buying this Holden. Chrysler same thing with the 300--mild to wild brackets about $10K in price. T-Bird had the same problem. Take $10K out of the price and a lot more people who would like to own a 2 seater would have bought it. But at $45000 it's market was restricted to older folks who wanted a toy.... What GM needs to hear is build a performance car that provides MAX GO, MAX BUILD QUALITY for MIN $ and they'll have a winner.

Try www.autocolorlibrary.com Shell Beige is probably the 65 color desired. It will have also changed over the years so you may have to take the car to a paint jobber and have their techs match by eye.

Lamar, HA! and HA! again. Even if it weren't April 1, trading BOTH cars was waaaaaayyy over the top. One maybe, and probably NOT Buttercup. I understand the supercharged Chevy V-16 under the hood, and the Slim Jim make your new toy quite the fun car to drive. Just remember, they call it the Slim Jim for a reason. Only 4 speed tranny in the whole world that behaves like a 2 speed. Oh well too each his own. I understand from the Packard folks that those 56 Clipper taillights are very expensive. Have fun and to all Aprils a happy Fools Day

If you are going through the restoration to create a numbers matching car in all other areas, then you probably want to paint it the color on the data tag. If it's already "not a numbers matching" car in terms of Engine/Tranny/Accessories then pick a color you think is cool from the original factory 1970 colors and it will probably be OK. Some folks will pay a premium for a numbers matching car but those that do will want ALL the numbers matching before spending the $$. Others have the mindset that the car is still just fine if it is built 100% as the original buyer COULD have ordered it, even if the interior color/exterior color has been changed to one different--but still available from the factory-- than that originally applied to that car. Resale Red has been way over done but many folks still like a red convertible. But at a show, being one of 20 red GS convertibles does kind of cause a loss of impact--blends right into the crowd. Hope this helps,