Buicksplus

From Buick's Rule: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously folks. READ THE FREAKIN RULES. They're online. Some of what people are fussing about just ain't gonna happen based on what the BCAMD folks are planning to do. </div></div> I thought I did read the rules: Some of them were printed in the recent Bugle. it says non-Buick powered cars can be shown but will receive a mandatory deduction. That tells me you are going to see plenty of SBC at your rod shows, though it may be hard for them to win anything. Can't imagine BCA turning away folks for having Chevy engines in their rods -- especially when that's the engine of choice for most rod hobbyists. That Buick engine rule may affect the winner's circle at shows, but don't be shocked when hundreds of Chevy-powered Buicks show up at your event.

RE BUICKS RULE comment on no SBC's: my eyes aren't what they used to be, but that engine on the Bugle ex-sedanet cover car looks like a gussied up SBC to me. Am I wrong? It does not appear to be a nailhead, though it has Buick looking valve covers on it.....Maybe it is a 400. No mention of how the car is powered in the article. So SBC's will be turned away at the gates? I thought about 98% of street rods have them, I think you'll find that tough to do. I do like DM's idea of going to a rod show with an original, I might just try that, might be fun. I can't keep up with them on tours though.

Dear Reatta Man: Please don't confuse the issue about encouraging street rods to the BCA with nitpicking about orignal floor mats, tires, mirrors, hose clamps or paint textures. Speaking for myself, I am mainly interested in original type cars, but have never been a fan of the unending arguments over trivial details as to how these cars were produced originally -- though I think those who do care perform real service in preserving the integrity of the marque's history. I prefer to stick to the big picture: I am confident no Buicks left the factory with chromed up blown small block chevy engines, Mustang II front ends, flame jobs and the like. No one claims that they did. The issue is not the color of the floor mats, it is whether or not street rods should be encouraged and celebrated by the BCA. They are going to come to the meets anyway, and rodders are going to be treated cordially by me and most others in the club. And talk about changing the subject! Yes, there are more important things in the world than whether or not rods are encouraged by BCA. But I thought rods were the subject of this thread. There, I'm sure you're convinced now! All the best and don't forget enjoy your Buicks out there.

Am I hearing that we need to embrace street rods in order to save more parts for original old cars? This sounds pretty far fetched to me. The continuing loss of old car parts to crushing or just plain rusting is part of the hobby and always will be. What fun would this hobby be if we could get parts at Wal-Mart? Remember Lady Bird Johnson's attack on junkyards all across America in the 60's? That had a very strong effect on drying up parts availability. Yet, we still have old cars on the road today. Personally, I find with the internet, it is easier to find parts than ever. I might add the hardest car I ever had to find parts for was a relatively new '62 Ford convertible. Look for trim for that car, practically impossible to find. I don't think I could find much from a rodder either, too new for them to bother. BTW, I really have no problem with "modified" cars which are Buicks that may have alternators, air conditioners, or even engines or transmissions from different years -- changes made to make the car more servicable or maybe to give it a chance to stay on the road a bit longer. My problem is with street rods with their Mustang front ends, chopped tops, fat tires, severed frames, small block Chevy engines, 9" Ford rear ends, etc, etc. These cars may have parts of Buick bodies. Many of them are very beautifully and cleverly crafted. But most (not all) of them are no more Buick than a BMW. I don't go to Buick meets just to see 400 point restorations. I go to see, hear, and smell original Buicks of all years and condition. The BCA is a great club and has many more young folks than most collector car clubs -- probably because the club celebrates Buicks all the way from brass to the 90's. Personally, I do not think embracing street rods will strengthen the club. It will weaken its base and most of the rodders are going to stay away anyway.

Hey big fella: Where have you been on this here internet? Most of these threads hash over old topics over and over and over again. No harm done. What's the problem, are you a little short of disk space? What's wrong with a little controversy? Gosh, if we can't talk about out the issue of how to deal with street rods in a collector car club in an open forum, where can we? I guess you think there is no controversy, and those who are less than thrilled with the concept should just get out of the club and go on their way. Asked and answered, as our attorneys like to say. This thread seems very civil to me, it's just car nuts taking a break from their garages and expressing their opinions. The main value of it all is to make it clear that this is a sensitive issue for the BCA and most car clubs. Please leave the thread alone, it will eventually drift to the bottom along with a lot of other interesting and important discussions.

Biguy: I have not bought any gears myself, but I did look at the web for machine shops that claim to be able to make them. Here is a list. Custom Gear Manufacturers I am sure that manufacturing a gear is not going to be cheap, especially in limited quantities. There are special tools, heat treatment and alloys needed for a gear with the durability needed for an automobile transmission. I would think an individual gear might cost $1000 to $2000 . But you need to ask them for real quotes, using your worn gears to copy. Your Jackson probably has simple spur gears, they are relatively easy to produce. Good luck, saw a Jackson touring car on a VMCCA tour back in '99, perhaps it was yours. Lovely car. Very few of them around now...

This fellow has repaired a couple of my mechanical temperature gauges and they have worked fine ever since: Services: TEMPERATURE gauge problems? We have good, reliable repair service that is guaranteed; still no electrics or motometers, a large selection of used early gauges is available. Roy Martin, The TEMPERATURE Gauge Guy, 172 Laurel Hill Dr, South Burlington, VT 05403, PH: 802-862-6374. There are several other vendors listed in Hemmings that do this sort of work too, but I have been pleased with Martin's work....

I happen to share Tommy's concern about the attention modifieds are getting in this club, but I do not plan on leaving the BCA over the issue. Not yet, anyway. Like Bill Sonneberg, I can deal with one issue out of 12 Bugles that is devoted to another hobby than the one I have. I can also deal with 10% of the show cars at meets being highly modified, hey the public loves them and some probably think they are actually Buicks. It's not about workmanship either, everyone knows that some modified cars have incredible workmanship and creativity. The problem is that modified cars represent the opposite of preservation -- their objective is to alter what was originally produced as a Buick -- the end result is different mechanically and asthetically than what Buick intended. Can we all be friends? Of course we can, we're all car nuts! But it isn't easy to find much common ground here. Somehow I think if the rods stay at 10%, they will probably go elsewhere, to one of the many clubs where rods are king. If the rods go to 50%, will the preservationists be comfortable with that? I doubt it. See you on the road Tommy, I look forward to meeting you again in one of your original and mostly unrestored old cars. Bill, lover of original Buicks.

This thread is so old this response will probably be wasted. But anyway here is a link to PPG chips for 40 Zephyr's. Note that not all that many production colors were offered for these lovely cars... 40 Lincoln Paint Chips The site Autocolorlibrary.com offers many scans of historic paint chips you can see on the web.

I have taken out grease stains with automotive paint prep wax and grease remover. It acts a lot like lighter fluid, and is rather mild so not much danger to attack the dyes or sizing in the fabric. I use PPG Acryli-Clean DX330 that you can get at any automotive paint supply store. Dupont and other automotive paint folks have similar products. As with any cleaning chemical, test it first in an inconspicuous area. I dab it on with a clean white rag, and rub it in, turning the rag frequently. Once it evaporates, the stain is usually gone, but if not, try another application. If that doesn't work, put a cute stuffed animal or wicker lunch basket on top of the stain, you'll be guaranteed an award at your next car show. Just joking of course.... Good luck!

As mentioned by others, the 8cyl Packard is no slouch and spare parts for the engine are probably much easier to come by.....This striking convertible coupe (if I recall correctly, it is an 8) was on a recent VMCCA tour. Most folks don't even know or care which engine is in these beautiful cars. But just like T-birds or '57 Chevies, cars are worth much much more if they have rare factory features like superchargers or fuel injection. Yet once the hood is closed and the car is on the road, who can tell the difference?

T-bird: Your question is a good one and Chuck's advice is excellent! Regarding your Packard, the '34 is amongst the prettiest of all the senior Packards and the 12 makes it even more exceptional. This means you can probably expect this car to remain sought after by collectors indefinitely. My own view of collector cars as investments is similar to Chuck's. Although there are flames fanned by the likes of Barrett-Jackson and many of the big auction companies, most collector cars are at best mediocre investments. Especially when you consider the real costs of storing, maintaining, and preserving your treasure. They have poor liquidity and do real bad in recessions (remember those? Yes, we may have another one someday). Still, I doubt if your Packard will lose much value over the long haul, it may even appreciate a bit. And, if there is a Brad Pitt movie made where he tools around in a V12 Packard and gets all the girls in it, the price could skyrocket. But that is the unpredictable part. The predictable part is if you truly enjoy old cars and like the look and feel of this Packard, how can you lose? I would just make sure you research the car thoroughly to convince yourself that you are getting a car that you like which is mechanically and cosmetically sound for a fair price. Good luck! Bill Albuquerque, NM

Bruce: Suggest you monitor and join the Yahoo group "1927 Buicks" . Just go to Yahoo groups and search for 1927 Buicks. There are about 150 members of this group worldwide, and they can be very helpful in finding parts and services. Good luck these are great cars and lots of fun to drive and restore... Bill, 1927 Buick Model 51

Bill: Hang in there. I loved your story and thought you would make it. But you sure gave it a good try. Hopefully it will not cost you too much to get the car and you home or to Batavia. FYI we drove our LaSalle across the country this summer and had very little trouble. We drove our 27 Buick to Flint for the Centennial (about 3900 miles for us) and also lucked out. These cars do better the more they are driven. But disaster is always possible. I guess we do it for the memories, and you'll have a few from your trip. All the best, and keep these wonderful Buicks rolling. FYI, here are two blogs from our trips: LaSalle Trip Buick Trip

We do use ethanol in our area and I have experienced major problems with it in my 27 Buick. I haven't had any problems with disolving internal parts in the tank, carburator or fuel pump (vacuum unit), but the ethanol laced fuel boils so bad that the car is worthless for climbing hills on any day with air temps above 75F. I added a little diesel fuel to just get me home, that helped a little. If ethanol becomes that widespread, this car will only be operable in the winter. I live at around 6000 ft altitude, I am sure that doesn't help either. Hopefully, someone will devise an additive that will raise the vapor pressure of this "fuel".

LAWSUIT! Just check with FoMoCo for details...... Glad you are OK. The Buicks can always be mended. Bill.

Here is the contact info for the club president... Nickel Age Touring Club - Jim Callahan - 4382 Piedmont Ave. - Oakland, A 94611 - 510/658-5164 Good luck.... Bill.

Gary: Don't panic just yet. I have seen this sort of behavior many times from engines that have sat a long time. I think you have enough compression to get the engine started, once you get the ignition and carburation working. If you do manage to get it running, I think the low compression readings may improve with time. Valves do not seat properly, valve seats corrode, and rings stick when engines have sat for a long time. But running them for a while can do wonders to loosen things up. Get some run time (several hours would be good) and then check the compression again. I think you might find considerable improvement in the numbers. If not, then you can think about what else can or should be done to the engine. Bill.

Good for J446, that is quite an honor. It is a lovely car, love that unusual roof line on the top. I hope they don't nitpick her to death, after all you have actually driven this beauty.....

The B-J auctions have little to do with accuracy and much to do with hype and collecting substantial fees from buyers, sellers and spectators. No doubt the Speed Channel channels a bunch of the revenue into the BJ coffers as well. I finally went to the Scottsdale B-J year before last and found the whole display totally bizarre. This is show biz, not the collector car hobby that I have enjoyed and still participate in after 30 years. I didn't see anything sell for a reasonable price. I saw many cars selling for way above what any informed collector would expect to pay for these cars. You want a '54 Skylark? These are rare and beautiful cars, but I hardly think you need to pay 189K to get a decent one. If so, we probably have the bubble blown up by BJ to thank for that. Yes, BJ does offer beautiful cars. Most are extremely rare models, probably owned by a celebrity and restored by the Monster Garage or the like. It is a wonderful show, no doubt about it. But I tell my friends if they are interested in buying a collector car, stay away from these places. My two cents. From the grinch......

I think Buick definitely has a problem. The LaCrosse looks OK, but hardly qualifies as an exciting car. When is the last time Buick had some excitement in its line? Perhaps those, supercharged Riverias? The Reatta pushed the envelope. Face it, it's been years since there was much excitement in the Buick line. Buick's expanding move into sport utes looks dubious, surely this market is saturated, and fuel prices could burst this bubble. When the public looks at cars again, are they going to go to a Buick dealer? Only Cadillac seems to have much life at GM, at least they are trying to produce some exciting and novel cars. Chrysler with its 300 and Ford with the new Mustang and the Ford 500 have been a lot more effective in designing and pushing cars -- and putting features in them that might draw in new customers. I also don't understand GM's comment that it might need to eliminate some lines. Since all these Buicks, Chevrolets, Pontiacs are pretty much built on the same lines and share so many parts, it is not clear how much savings you get when you kill a line. Did GM really get a lift in its bottom line when they killed Olds? Bill

I would look for something that is either very complete or that has a good supply or reproduction parts. Unfortunately, many nice 60's era cars are very weak when it comes to repro parts -- except for certain cars like Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Etc. I had a '62 Ford Galaxie and could find almost no parts for this car, either used or repro. I think the pick up truck is a good idea, these are easy to restore and parts not too bad to find. I see many restorable trucks available for $1000 or even less. You might look at jeeps too, they are simple and you can buy just about anything they need. Consider going pre-war too, there are many older cars available and I find them relatively easy to restore and get parts for. The late 30's Buicks are particularly attractive, I see pretty good buys for those on e-bay often. Mainly, keep looking and the right car will appear. They always do, usually sooner rather than later. Bill Albuquerque.

I have jumped 6V cars many times with 12 V. I agree with turning off all the lights, radio and accessories. In addition, though, I pull off one lead from the 6V battery terminal and connect the jumper to the free lead. This eliminates the danger of battery explosion when current surges into the 6V battery. Once the jumper is connected, turn on the ignition and quickly crank the car until it starts. Do not delay or the 12 V could damage the instruments. As soon as the engine starts, disconnect the jumper and jam the lead back onto the 6V battery terminal. If you're lucky, the engine will keep running through this transition (keep the revs up so it will run on the generator during brief time the battery lead is not connected) and you'll be on your way. Good luck! Bill.

PPG issues extensive compatibility sheets with all its products, the dealers usually have racks of them. I have not used the chroma primer, but PPG usually recommends using an epoxy primer/sealer over primer-surfacers before covering with Urethane or Enamel topcoats. The compatibility sheet for the primer or the topcoats will likely tell you what's acceptable. I have used PPG and like it but it is sure expensive. I have not used Dupont products, but I think they are similar -- it comes down to what you are used to and which dealer you like. I tend to use PPG because we have a good local dealer who knows the product well and enjoys dealing with amateur car restorers. I did paint a car with Sikkens urethane once and found that paint to be outstanding, definitely easier to apply and buff out than the comparable PPG paint. But Sikkens is very hard to obtain in my town, there are no dealers for it. It is even more expensive than PPG too. Good luck and keep your respirator filters clean! Bill.

The book I have lists only the 2 dr Suburban ( no 4 door model) and says the production was 9489 units. Total Dodge production that year was about 150,000 units. Unfortunately, the value is probably not much, though there is always some interest in hemi's, and Chrysler's pushing the their new lines of hemi's has helped. Wagons are very hard to restore because they have unique parts in very short supply, and most collectors aren't too interested in them. I think that attitude is changing slightly, I do see more wagons on tours and shows recently.