rocketraider

The GS guys around here used to have a bunch of shirts made up that said "Any idiot can build a Chevy... and most do!" Directly under that was "Go fast with class- Buick GS". Used to get the Chevy crowd riled up when they wore them to the dragstrip, but it made for some good racing once them C-car boys got mad enuff to quit polishing and put 'em on the track- even though they usually got beat.<P>My high-school best friend had a 71 Stage 1 that was the scourge of South Boston VA until his dad found out what he was doing with the car. Nothing could touch it except for one 68 Torino that had a built 429.<P>Even though I'm an Olds guy at heart, I always thought the Buick was the best big-block GM had. Apparently the General didn't think so- he gave all the V8 production to Chevy. I have seen too many BB-C with rods sticking thru the block to believe that was a good decision.

As is almost always the case... Ask the localities and smokers who were supposed to benefit from the tobacco industry lawsuit settlements.<P>A sad commentary on modern life, esp since we also have a thread on the kindness of people who obviously still have some core values and haven't been corrupted by the money chase.<p>[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

If you find this piece NOS GM, be prepared to bend over and not even be kissed for the favor.<P>Your best bet will be to find a good used part and have it replated. Several companies offer plastic chrome replating service. You can find them in Hemmings Motor News and the Olds Club's <I>Journey With Olds</I> magazine.

If you remove the thermostat, you have no restriction in the cooling system and therefore high flow. This means coolant does not stay in the block long enough to absorb heat or in the radiator long enough to dissipate it.<P>I personally consider it a bad idea.<P>Some race engines use an orifice plate in the thermostat housing to restrict flow but that's a different set of dogs.

Kevin, don't have a scanner but I can snail mail you copies of the stuff from the 1965 Olds chassis manual if you want. E-mail me privately and we can get things going.<P>I recommend getting a factory service manual. They're invaluable for stuff like you're trying to find.

The spindles are different. 1967-72 Toro/Eldo use the same disc brake spindles, and 1973-78 use the same ones. I <I>think</I><BR>a 1967 spindle will bolt onto a 1966.<P>To use the 73-later discs, you'll have to change the ball joints and tierod ends to those year parts.<P>I came real close once to scarfing a 1978 Eldorado rear disc setup for my 69, but when I ran the idea by a trusted friend who retired from Olds Zone Service, he made all kinds of faces and said I wouldn't like those rear discs at all... seems they were very troublesome.

What's wrong with getting the original Rochester 4GC rebuilt? Kits are still available and there's still old-time carb guys around to fix 'em. Look in Hemmings Motor News magazine and you'll find them. There's a fellow currently advertising 4GC rebuilding service in Olds Club's <I>Journey With Olds</I> magazine and has some RB in stock ready to bolt on. I suggest joining OCA if for no other reason than the magazine has an all-Olds classified section.<P>The Edelbrock AFB will bolt right up to the 1965 425 intake but you'll have to fabricate a new fuel pump to carburetor line and may have to fiddle with the throttle linkage a bit to make it work. Stock Olds aircleaner probably won't fit well either.<P>I think an Edelbrock 600 is a bit undersized for an Olds big-block. They're fine for a Chevy.<P>Holley lists a rebuilt original 4GC carb for your car on their website.

Have you tried a literature vendor for a sales catalog? Most of those had paint colors and interior trims listed, even on truck lines.<P>1956- that one had stacked vertical headlights, right? or did those come later?

All 1965-70 senior Olds (exc 65-66 Jetstar 88) used the same spindles for drum brake applications. Disc brakes were offered starting 1967, and all 1967-70 disc brake cars used the same spindles. So it stands to reason that a disc brake setup from a 1967-70 big Olds will bolt into your Starfire.<P>E-mail me privately and I'll give you factaory part #s and applications. This is an interesting concept.

You can put any small block Olds engine (260-307-330-350-403) in this car and all accessory holes and most brackets are the same 68-up. Everything else will fit too. You'll have to bolt the Toro front engine mount to the new engine. Since you're yanking the 307 anyway, why not get the most cubes for yer money and do the 403? 400-425-455 can be put in there, but it would be a chore.<P>You'll have to use yer existing exhaust manifolds unless you can find a set for a 1977-78 Toronado which had 403s. They have larger ports than the 307 manifolds and might require some custom pipe bending.<P>Get a harmonic balancer for whatever engine you put in the car.

If it's a 4-door sedan they don't open. All that opens is the rear door vent windows. Most Broughams had power-operated ones.

The Oldsmobile Club of America judging guidelines stipulate that the car should be presented "as it would have appeared in a dealer showroom". We take this to mean a car that was specially cleaned and detailed for maximum customer impact. Wow factor, if you will, which was important at Oldsmobile in the Wolfram-Metzel-Beltz years.<P>I can see how wording confuses people. As long as the car is presented in best light, and as authentically as possible, there should be no trouble in AACA or marque club judging.

With all that damage, I think you'll be better off getting a junkyard steering column. A loose steering wheel is not safe.<P>You can find the wiring diagram in the factory service manuals for your car. Starting around 1980 a lot of GM divisions had a separate electrical manual.

In the case of a Starfire (or any other low production car with a lot of specific trim items) I'm inclined to get the best car available to start with. It's less expensive and less frustrating in the long run, and I speak from experience with a 1964. I have realised I can buy a nice car for a third to half what it would take to restore the one I have to comparable condition.<P>That said- on a 62 you have the side trim to find, a leather interior that will have to be custom dyed to match the metallic finished original, and bumpers which are almost always rusted out behind the brackets. Plus these cars have a lot of unobtainium trim pieces that are not shared with any other car, even other 1962 big Oldsmobiles.<P>Then there's the mechanical end of it. The Starfire 394 is powerful but should it need rebuilding parts are expensive and cams have to be custom ground. They have SlimJim HydraMatics which are quirky and tough to find competent servicemen who understand them and will guarantee a rebuild. <P>I probably sound discouraging, but I am a realist and I know what it takes to restore one of these beauties. A rough Starfire would be an ambitious project for a first timer.<P>So- my advice if you haven't already bought the car? Go find the best one you can find and then upgrade it as needed. That way you can drive the car and enjoy it, and you won't be arse deep in a disassembled car that you can't find needed parts for. You'll be ahead financially too. The 62 is the most popular of the six year run and nice ones are advertised every day at reasonable prices.

Tommy, I'll look in the 72 Fisher Body Manual and see if there's a good drawing of the top frame. I'll be glad to xerox it for you.<P>The actuators are at the corners of the rear seat back and are driven by cables from the top motor/transmission. What Centurion is talking about has to be done every so often because either the cables or actuators get sloppy and the top frame will cock during operation.

Color and build date?

Can't furnish dealer codes but here's a few from around here:<P>Wyatt Buick, Danville VA (in business since 1924, VA dealer license #5!! now a Buick Pontiac dualled dealer)<P>Powell Motor Company, South Boston VA (defunct)<P>F.E.Watkins Motor Company, South Hill VA (now Sadler GM- yes, owned by NASCAR drivers Elliott and Hermie Sadler)<P>Sadler Motor Company Olds-Buick-Pontiac, Emporia VA<P>Royal Buick-Pontiac, Roxboro NC (changed to Center and now Boyette)<P>Galloway Buick, Greensboro NC.

Notorious is an understatement! These top frames are also sensitive to lubrication and the second bow pivots wearing out is usually what causes jamming halfway. If the top fabric has pulled loose from the second bow (notorious for THAT too) the end of the bow will pivot around to the outside of the top frame and cause a jam. It has to remain inside the siderails to operate properly.<P>Every once in a while I get the notion of wanting another 71-76 GM B-car convert. Then I read these posts and realise why I sold the one I had! and I talk myself out of it.

You can put Supreme hardtop quarters on a ragtop, but you'll have to do some heavyweight massaging in the pinchweld area. Fortunately, you can piece the lower part of the HT quarters to the convert and not have to go thru all that, if the pinchweld area is good.<P>I believe the trunk and floors are the same on the HT and convert those years.<P>Hee-hee... now someone else knows about the common-as-dirt 4-door sedan decklid interchange, and these rapists who advertise "Cutlass Convertible decklid" for $500+ will get their comeuppance. Sorry- I had to say it

Let me dig thru some files and make some calls- there was a guy in NC who rebuilt those Dana cruise control regulators but I can't remember his name.<P>Have you tried getting a remanufactured one thru NAPA or other parts store? I know you can get those damned vacuum transducer junk regulators all day long, and almost every GM dealer has one or two of those on the parts shelf. <P>Conversely, you rarely hear of a Dana governor type regulator going bad.

First thing is to check the rubber drain tube on the engine side bottom of the heater/AC case. It often gets plugged with debris and lets water in. Rubber nipple-looking thing.<P>If that don't solve it, you'll have to do one of two things. Either pull the heater case out of the car and reseal it with some dum-dum, or pull the passenger kick panel, remove the AC duct or blank-off plate that is behind it, and reseal that to the car body.<P>I've also seen the body seam sealer break off and allow water to enter thru the seams where different panels join.

Try an ad on 442.com. Or join the Hurst/Olds club, somebody in there will have one. <P>Tops and Trends in Kernersville NC can probably supply one very similar to the original, as they installed them and the hood scoops on the Cutlass GT conversions they made for the NC Olds sales zone. They still have enough stuff that they refurbish a couple of GTs a year.<P>Here's an idea. Yank the 307 and save it for the day you decide on an originally restored car. Then go find a 350 or 403 and build the snot out of it and have fun. You won't be the first to do that with an 80s Hurst. They were woefully underpowered for the name they carried.

Yaaah- it'll be easier to run the wire from the fuse block under the dash, thru the firewall and to the distributor than it will to unwrap and splice into the engine harness.<P>Really, as long as you can find an adequate 12v power source that is controlled by the ignition switch, you can power the HEI from about anywhere. One guy on 442.com swears by tapping into the windshield wiper motor power lead, but I think that's a really mickey-mouse way of doing it. I don't mind running an extra stand-alone wire to power something, but I don't like cutting wires without a good reason to do so. Good way to invite an electrical fire if you get into something you shouldn't.

You probably won't be able to shift into Low manually, but that's no great loss. I'm wondering how you're gonna fool this computer controlled transmission into shifting properly. I'd lean more toward a properly built 200-4R or 700 since I know they will work without computer reference.<P>On the shift quadrant- you'll need to remove and disassemble the dash cluster, then you can remove the PRNDL quadrant and use a piece of thin plexiglass to make a new one for PRNO321. Get a sign shop to make your letters out of diecut vinyl. Their computer vinyl lettering machine may even have a font that closely matches the original style. Have them make a reversed image so the sticky side is to the front and install it from the back side of the new plexiglass piece. We did that on a 2004R installation in a 64 Pontiac and it looks great.

Jim, young friend- you have a 15th Anniversary Hurst/Olds and you have paper backing up what happened. Nuff said. <P>Try to not get hung up on the car's value, otherwise you'll never enjoy it- I know too many people who have never loved an old car for worrying about whether they'd make money on it, and passed up interesting cars because they weren't the most popular thing at the time.<P>Done properly, it's hard to tell if a 350-403 has been swapped into a G-body Cutlass if you decide to go that route for a little Import Surprise, and you'll sound like a car instead of a weedeater on crack.<P>Two places to check out are the G-Body webring which I think the OCA site still links to, and <A HREF="http://www.hurstolds.com-" TARGET=_blank>www.hurstolds.com-</A> the Hurst/Olds Club website.<P>Enjoy yer Hurst! It's what they were made for!