rocketraider

Hurst/Olds were also built in 1975 (to showcase the new Hurst/Hatch roof), 1977 (2 prototypes) and 1988 (Hurst Aero). Just one of several mistakes in the 442.com Hurst/Olds FAQ.<P>The Hurst/Olds Club of America will be your best bet to help authenticate a Hurst/Olds. They have all the original serial #s and can tell you if your H/O was an Indy 500 Festival car. Link from oldsclub.com to get there.<P>A lot of people have the mistaken idea that all Olds with Hurst shifters are Hurst/Olds. And some of them are simply bs artists trying to fool an unsuspecting and unknowledgeable buyer. Like the guy who was advertising a 64 Starfire as "documented by OCA as the only one in existence with a Hurst Dual/Gate shifter". Baloney. The factory never put one in and Hurst made them for SlimJims. I bought one at Carlisle a few years back. Caveat emptor?

This happened in the late 60s. Chevy brought out its now overexposed 350 in 1967, Olds its 455 in 1968. At the time, the other GM divisions' smaller engines were ranging from 326 (Pontiac) to 340 (Buick) cid and it simply didn't do for lowly Chevy to have a bigger standard engine than the General's more prestigious brands. Likewise once Olds opened the barn door with a 455, Pontiac's 428 and Buick's 430 suddenly seemed passe', so they made their own 455s, though Olds was only after saving some money by having their two fat block engines use more components in common. With the 472 and later the 500, Cadillac didn't have to worry about staying on top of the who's is bigger heap.<P>If you apply the displacement formula to the 455s, I think you'll find that most of them weren't exactly 455 ci either. Plus it was one of them "sound" things- say it, "three fifty" and "four fifty five" roll off the tongue easily. It's something the Japanese perfected in later years, using computers to generate soothing, inoffensive babble that would appeal to yuppies for car names. Stuff like "Altima", "Maxima", "Camry", "Elantra". Christ- what happened to people wanting cars that sounded like they were going 100 mph sitting still?

Look on the car's data plate underhood. It will have PAINT and TR stamped in it. These codes give you the original color and interior trim codes. 1969 color code will be a letter and trim code will be 3 numbers. Send me those and I can decode them for you.<P>The 1969 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual includes the factory applied paint codes. You can also get a 1969 Colors folder which will have actual paint chips in it, and all the paint suppliers have color chip sheets for individual years. You can buy these from literature vendors or at most swap meets, paint chip sheet should be under $10. Sometimes the factory issued stuff goes higher.<P>Welcome aboard the Rocket.

There were Jetstar I and Jetstar 88 in 1964, the JI being a lighter trimmed version of Starfire with the same 345hp 394 and SlimJim HydraMatic, the J88 being the entry level full sized Olds. It shared the new for 64 330 cid engine and 2-speed Jetaway automatic trans with the F85 and could be ordered with 4-speed floor shift, which couldn't be got in the Jetstar I. The J88 had Chevrolet suspension and brakes and used the small bolt circle wheels. The new PRNDL Jetaway caused a lot of grief in the Lansing motor pool, who were used to PNDSLR HydraMatics in big Olds and would instinctively yank the selector all the way back and nail it to back up. They replaced a lot of parking lot fence that year! <P>1965 was much the same except the JI now had the 370 hp Starfire 425 cid engine and could be ordered with 4-speed floorshift, around 150 of the total 6552 production were so equipped. J88 continued with 330/light duty underpinnings in 1965 and its last production year 1966. In 1967 it was supplanted with the Delmont 88 series, which could have either 330 or 425 power.<P>Whew! Confusing, ain't it?

Bears repeating that to do a dual exhaust conversion properly on 65-70 B&C Olds, you also need the specially curved shift linkage that goes between the steering column and the bellcrank. Also- for whatever unknown reason, the 70 LH is a different p/n than the 65-69, although they are visually the same? <P>DeltaBravo, you don't ask for much. The last LH I saw went for nearly $300 at Carlisle, and I haven't found any in a junkyard in years.

They never made a Jetstar II. They didn't make Jetstar I as a convertible either year of production, it was built only as a hardtop coupe; 16,000 or so 1964s, 6552 1965s. They made beaucoup Jetstar _88_ convertibles with 330 cid engines which are gold with black airfilters.<BR>Accessories, brackets and pulleys are black or natural steel color. Firewall, heater case and fenderwells are black, hood hinges and many bolts are gray phosphate.

Performance Years BB started the pay-to-play thing a while back. They had a REAL problem with people sniping each other, some of them would get downright sh**ty with each other. Generally uncivilised behavior. They were trying to discourage that when they started charging to join. As in all forums, there are a few who try to dominate, but we tend to let them toot their horns and blow their smoke up their own behinds.<P>But you're right, the PYBB is an excellent Pontiac info source. Let's hope AACA can work a deal with the Pontiac clubs to open a forum here!

You IVOC guys are treading dangerous ground by not allowing Hudson at yer swap meet! <BR>Seriously- I wish we could get something like that going in the Southeast. It's hard to get the BOP clubs to work together on a show, much less a swap. Seems like each club wants the other ones to do all the work. Hope it's successful, I've heard good things about it in the past.

Baah- forgot the important stuff. After putting the Ignitor in the 74 Hurst/Olds, was able to bump up initial timing by 4 degrees and gas milage increased from 12 mpg on 93 octane to almost 16 on 87. Worth it for that. Noticed a little more butt feel too.

The one drawback to the lobe sensor Pertronix Ignitor is that it requires a "wait to start". You'll have to switch on the ignition and wait a few seconds before spinning it over. Otherwise it "takes a lotta zoo-ing" as my parents' neighbor says. I have a lobe sensor type in a 74 Olds 350. I turn the key to "on", count five, and start the engine. A friend has a 64 Pontiac 389 with the air gap type Ignitor which doesn't require the wait to start, but I think is a little sensitive to its air gap dimension.

Tell us what engine and body style. I think you'll be limited to stuff like Borla exhaust, maybe bigger injectors and a hipo computer chip for engine. You can put on high performance tires/wheels, and I've seen ground effects and aero kits for these cars.<BR>Possibly a supercharger from a 90s Buick or Pontiac might fit. <P>There was another guy on here couple days ago, teenager I believe, wanting the same info for an 88 SL. I've never been on it, but I believe there is an N-body webring.

Every so often this discussion starts up on 442.com and Chris Witt in MI has had a high dollar finder's fee going for some time to anyone who can 1) prove the existence of the solid web 403, and 2) deliver him one. The rumour was that about 2500 were made and put in 1977 Buick and Olds B wagons, but it's been pretty much established that it is just that- a rumour- and that no solid web 403 were ever cast. Sorry.

Most 68 and 69 I remember new came with Firestone Wide Ovals, in either red lines or single pinstripe whitewalls. At least my uncle's 68 "S" had them, I was 13 and just beginning to go gaga over cars, and I was soaking up every detail I could see. Think the term we used then was "cool to death"? Then it was "bitchin" and now "phat", or so my teenage nephews tell me...

Don't weld up the hole in the yoke, it's part of the transmission's vent system! What's happening is that as the car sits, all the fluid is draining back out of the torque converter and hydraulic circuits into the pan, and as the level rises it gets up to the level of that vent hole and drips out. I had a 73 88 that would do the same thing if it wasn't driven at least every other week. I've also seen them leak out around the pan gasket, speedometer cable seal and shift lever seal. Solution? Drive it! the car will thank you for it.

I have sat my arse in that 68 cop car and it will put the fear of Gawd in you. It belongs to a retired Oldsmobile Zone Service Manager who doesn't spare the horses. I currently own two cars I bought from him, and let's just say they ain't necessarily as they left the assembly plant, but everything has an Olds part #. Technically, the only year it was identified as the W33 Police Apprehender was 1970, but the B07 and B01 police packages were available on both big car and F85 most years. That's how the original 442 came about in 1964. It was basically the Cutlass cop car, even available on the 4-door sedan. Most literature on the cop car recommends it for the Town Sedan. But some fuzz liked a little sportier package...

An AC-Delco jobber will sometimes carry factory type wiring plugs and terminals. One in Greensboro NC has come thru for my 60s Oldsmobiles and a friend's Pontiacs several times. It helps that this shop is attuned to old cars; both the owner and parts manager are old car freaks of the highest order. They had an AC-Delco rebuilt fuel pump for 1964 Olds on the shelf last month, at about a third of what the big-name old car supply houses wanted.<P>My sympathies on the CA situation. There are people in power there who won't be satisfied until every last old car is off the road and crushed. And not servicing simple parts is only the start...

I've had a couple of carbs apart that had had RFG or high alcohol content gasoline thru them, and they're not pretty. The stuff leaves whitish crusty deposits all over the carb internals. This stuff could be the cause of the sticking float.<P>Or it could be just from age and varnish deposits. Limited, I think you're going to have to go thru that carb as the problem isn't likely to go away on its own. I can understand not wanting to mess with it though. Seems like they never run as well as when Rochester built them, unless you can find an ace QuadraJet man.<P>I'm going thru much the same scenario with a 1964 Starfire 4GC carb. The car will simply not run any longer than it takes to burn the fuel out of the bowl. This one has had new rubber lines and a new fuel pump and still does its hateful thing. I've messed with this carb the whole twenty years I've owned the car, and it's still no good. It did better with a Rochester kit than any other time, but after seeing some of the weird stuff that it came that way, I believe it was bad from the git-go. I guess I'll have to open it up again too if I expect to get any pleasure out of this car this year. or get a rebuilt which will likely be no better than what I have. Most early 60s Olds people I know who have 4GC have the same complaints I have.

Kind of strange that the old Buicks don't come out in Hotlanta; there are fairly active BCA and GSCA chapters there plus the Olds, Pontiac and Caddy clubs. They used to do a really nice BOP show there every spring which I haven't been able to attend the last few years because it conflicts with Spring Carlisle.<P>Road-going Buick sightings here today- 1968 Electra pillared sedan, 1966 Lesabre 4DHT, and a 1962 or 63 Special 4D sedan. One Ford deuce street rod and my 1976 Olds Regency. It was beautiful here today- where were the old cars?!

Two things come to mind- choke adjustment or a float stuck closed. I'm leaning toward the float since you say it has fuel up to the filter and will run if the carb is primed. Try rapping the top of the carb with a plastic screwdriver handle. If that doesn't do the trick- rebuild time. You did say the fuel pump is good?<P>Also- is reformulated gas being used in your area? That nastyass mess will dissolve rubber fuel hoses from the inside and the goo will get into floats, jets etc, though it can apparently get thru the filter.<P>We had RFG here one winter and although it didn't cost me any fuel hoses, it dropped mileage on a 307 OD wagon from 24 mpg highway to 16. Car started hard and ran poorly that whole winter. Once it got out of the pipeline, back to 24 mpg and decent running again.

Everything I've ever heard indicates the Celebrity Sedan or Coupe is a post sedan with window frames. This was the case on up into the late 60s when they began calling them Town Sedans. I dare say there was more headroom in one of them than in a flat-top, and might be why some Buick and Cadillac C-body cars used the arced six window roofline instead of the flat roof. The flat-top was a dramatically styled car though- right in step with its times.

This is one of the few useful things OCA has done in the past couple of years, and I'm speaking as a past national director of that group. Kudos to whoever negotiated this forum on behalf of OCA and AACA. May the association be long and fruitful!

The high compression 330 engine in both F85 and Jetstar 88 series was called "Jetfire" 1964-67 and announced its presence on the aircleaner trim plate. This may be what he's seen. The Turbocharged 215 1962-63 was known as Turbo-Rocket; in tamer versions it was "Rockette".<P>Olds Engineering's refusal to lower the 215's 10.25 compression ratio in the turbocharged application was the biggest reason the engines were regarded as troublesome. The little monsters simply detonated themselves into oblivion and finally were fitted with a fluid injection system to decarbon the engine and cool combustion temps to where detonation ceased. It used a mixture of alcohol and water called "Turbo-Rocket Fluid". Still a novel idea and way ahead of its time, along with the turbocharged Corvair Spyder, which gave us the original turbo muffler.

Rumour is (and it's strictly rumour) that both Olds and Pontiac built versions of ElCaminos several years, but I've never seen a 73. There is a documented 1972 TempesTruck in the POCI.

The Delta 88 Holiday Coupe was a 1977-82 series and was a sporty big car. Bucket seats, console, sport steering wheel, usually with FE3 suspension and available with the 403. Unfortunately, 403 cars couldn't get the SS-III sport wheels since they were small bolt circle and 403s used the big circle wheels. They could have the SS-V all chrome wheel or color keyed full wheel covers. These are neat cars and actually sold pretty well. At least someone in GM had realised there was a market for a big sporty 2-door car in those years. Now if they'd just get their heads out of their butts and realise that now.... For a few years I thought GM was making a comeback with their styling and product lineup, and now everything looks like a Volvo or Toyota Avalon. I can't imagine anyone ever seeing the dreck they're making now as collectible. Or for that matter trying to restore all the electronic mess.

To add some more on the VSO car, all RPO were available with the Y76 option including Compaticolor interior (white seats/door panels with dash and rugs color keyed to the exterior) and powertrains up to the 455 for 1974-76 and the 403 for 1977. <P>Many people have confused it with a Hurst conversion because of the roof trim, and in 1976 the Delta 88 was available with Option Y61 Royale Crown Landau Coupe which included stainless roof trim and a blind quarter padded landau roof; these cars were converted by Hurst but the Y76 was an in-house job as far as I know. I've never seen any Hurst documentation on it as I have the Crown Landau.