rocketraider

Just been informed that most 65s did not have the HD boxed frame, though the 3-speed 65 post I had, had it. Maybe because the original selling dealer was known to be prone to overkill on their performance sales. Henry's right, post cars were available in both F85 and Cutlass series.

Royal Purple makes a good synthetic oil. We use it in a lot of powerplant applications on stuff that runs 24/7/365 and we've noticed slightly cooler bearing running temps.<P>Molybdate is no big deal. We use that too in the plant's closed cooling water systems, for the exact reasons stated. It reduces pipe corrosion/erosion (actually it plates out on pipe inside walls) but whether it aids heat transfer I don't know. We used to use chromate which worked better, but was declared a hazardous waste by EPA.<P>I think I'd make sure everything was up to snuff on the cooling system before putting witches' brew in it. The cooling systems functioned back in the day, and it was just as hot then as now.

Short of having the original broadcast sheet it won't be easy. There's nothing in the VIN to distinguish a 442 from a Cutlass or F85 those years. <P>The best way I know of is to check some date codes and see if they match the car's build date, remembering that engines, transmissions etc were usually made a few weeks prior to actual car build. Also remember they aren't necessarily Julian calendar dates- often they will be the day of the year the stuff was made, as in 095 would be 95th day of the production year, 135 the 135th etc.<P>Engine- look at the back of the engine near the distributor. There will be a 3-digit code that is the day the engine block was cast.<P>Automatic Transmission- code will be stamped into the servo cover with 65NJXXX(D) or (N). 65= 1965, NJ is 442 trans code. XXX is date code and Day or Night shift. Will be a 2-speed electric downshift Jetaway.<P>Manual trans- should be a Muncie. Look for a 4 digit code stamped in the right side of the case near the tailshaft extension. First 2 letters will be month, last two wil be date of the month. Pays to remember that some 3-speed 65s were built.<P>Look for obvious tip-offs like the 1/4 panel scoop alignment and placement and 442 emblems, which should be on the scoops, the tail panel, the dash and the grille. Car should also have heavy duty boxed frame and wheels, and you know about the sway bars- big one in front and swaybar and boxed control arms in the rear.<P>The good news is that most cloning is done to duplicate W30 cars. 65s aren't totally immune form it, but I've never seen a cloned 65.

1968-72 Cutlass has excellent aftermarket and reproduction parts support and is modern enough mechanically that it can be driven and repaired anywhere. There's good club support too thru the Oldsmobile Club of America and its chapters and affiliates.<P>Most all convertibles were bucket seat cars. There was a no-cost bench seat option but I've seen very few. Consoles were optional so you may find one buckets without console. You could get these cars with a 350 cid Olds V8, 2 or 4 barrel carb, single or dual exhaust, combined with 2 or 3 speed automatics, or 3 or 4 speed manual transmissions. There was also a six-cylinder version but it's very rare.<P>Most all GM cars of that era will have at least minor rust-through starting on the front fenders behind the wheel opening, and at the rear wheelhouses and lower quarter panels behind the rear wheels. On a convertible look out for rotted floors and trunk.<P>My best advice to a young Rocket-man? Get the best car you can afford to start with. It'll save money and aggravation in the long run. Feel free to contact me if you need help- Oldsmobiles have beat me up for close to 30 years now so I've learned a bit about them.

What exactly are you looking for? Except for trim mounting holes, the sheetmetal is common to 98s from the doors forward and to all 88 2d hardtops and convertibles. Starfire trim is a different story, and as you're probably finding out, hard to find and expensive. Worth it in the end though- a 63 Starfire is a gorgeous car. <P>I deal with a couple guys in California for this stuff. E-mail me for contacts.

Any of the cars you mentioned would be a good first choice as they're simple to work on and parts and technical support is excellent. <P>If you decide to go Olds, I think I'd stick with a 64-72 Cutlass- the 61-63, while nice and interesting cars, have some components that can be hard to get repaired these days i.e their HydraMatic transmissions. The 64-72 are mechanically modern cars, can handle today's traffic easily, and have a style and panache most cars of that era can't begin to approach.<P>You might even want to consider a full size Olds ragtop for the same reasons. 1971-75 do have a weird top that scares off trim shops sometimes, but they are great cars.<P>In addition to AACA, you would have the Dixie Olds Chapter OCA in Atlanta for local club support, or if you're closer to Florida, the Olds Club of Florida. And if you're in north Georgia, you're fairly close to Mid Atlantic Olds Club which often meets in Charlotte area. <P>As always- get the best car you can afford to start with. It will save much aggravation in the long run, even if you have to pay a bit more for it initially.<p>[ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

J446, if you ever bring that car to VIR, please let me know. Would love to see it run.

Wire wheel caps, or any high-line wheel treatment option, are always appropriate for the larger top line cars. To wit- 1964 Olds Starfire I just purchased came with the flat face "plain ugly" standard 1964 Olds covers. I put on a set of 1964 wires and changed the whole character of the car. Likewise 1976 Regency came with the deluxe caps for tha year, but still looked a little, shall we say, "muted". Put on a set of Polycast Super Stock IV factory road wheels and walla! instant stunner. Car changed from a dowager queen to Grace Kelly with that simple addition. Made the car look light on its feet and obviously the top of the heap car that it was and is.<P>At least you can put them on a 63. 1964-later the fender skirts preclude using knockoff-styled wires.

403 is a small block in Olds-speak. Any header listed for an Olds 350 will also fit the same chassis with 403.<P>But then, I've never found a set of headers that didn't have to be massaged into place, no matter what brand or what chassis configuration.

The "generation" I referred to are not children- it's people in their 20s and 30s who have never been exposed to the technology and engineering some of the old iron had. Of course, getting a kid to appreciate yer stuff isn't a bad thing either, since whether you like it or not they are the ones who will carry this hobby forward after all of us are pushing up weeds. And if they aren't interested in the old stuff, when you're gone, somebody will take yer old iron and make a Toyota out of it. The US government is closer to that than we think right now.<P>If you don't want to bring your car out, fine. It's your right. Me, I'm one of these people that if I can't drive the car and enjoy it, it's not worth a tinker's damn to me and would be better turned into a Toyota.

My vote is for recognition as historically significant. This was a time when machinery was making people's lives easier. I think it comes under the same umbrella as a slide-in pickup box for a car's trunk.<P>As late as the mid 60s, a neighbor used a WWII surplus Ford Jeep as a tractor. Plowed, cultivated, did it all.<P>Occasionally you see one of these conversions at an antique tractor and machinery show. And those, for you who have never attended one, are as fascinating as anything we old car types put on. Where else could you find an old Maytag engine driving a pair of ice cream freezers? Or a Peerless running a big squirrel cage blower to keep its exhibitor cool in the North Carolina summer? or a monstrous Rumely OilPull or Case traction engine busting sod?<BR> <p>[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

I think one point Dave is trying to make, though he hasn't said so in as many words, is that if cars aren't seen and shared, there's a whole generation of people who may never get the privilege of seeing and appreciating them. <P>I don't get to see many prewar cars and that bothers me. My dad and uncle loved the older cars though neither could afford to have one, and I never got many chances to take them to shows before their deaths.<P>And then there's some old car owners who are just plain ornery. I saw this just last evening at a cruise night. A gorgeous 1932 Studebaker President drove into the cruise area and immediately attracted a large crowd as it was the only prewar car there that hadn't been rodded. Amid compliments and questions of genuine interest about this car, all of a sudden the guy's face clouded up, he got in it, and left. Maybe he didn't know how to handle the attention and admiration for his car, but I suspect it was just plain orneriness kicked in.<P>Maybe when these owners who never bring out their cars die off, the people who buy them at the estate sale will see fit to share their little piece of history. I don't advocate "driving the wheels off them", but I try to drive my four Oldsmobiles a few hundred miles a year just to avoid deterioration from lack of use- which is misuse IMHO.

Over on the Olds board a guy's trying to sell the remains of a 1968 Ninety Eight four door that he describes as "mint interior and very nice outside, would be a great restoration".<P>This after the freak has robbed the car of its 455 and Turbo 400 to stick in a Cutlass.<P>Pardonez-vous mi Francais, but stuff like that burns the poopoo out of me. Some people think a big car, no matter how nice, is worthless except as an engine source for a lesser car. Then you have two worthless cars- one without a drivetrain, and another with an incorrect, often poorly installed, engine.<P>I quit fooling with Chevys because of that mess. I see that mentality is now seeping into the Olds/Buick camp, which traditionally had been immune from it.<P> <BR>By the way- enjoy yer new luxury car. Sounds like a really nice acquisition, and one more big sedan saved from the butchers.<p>[ 07-28-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

If the solenoids are clicking that means that they and the transmission are good. No motor action usually means motor has shat itself. There should be a circuit breaker somwhere near the fuse block. Check that, it may have given up.<P>Good news is, all GM seat motors will interchange with the same type seat from about 1962 on into the 80s. 6-way seem to be the most common. If you have a 4-way or 2-way you may have to dig for a motor. Plugs are different sometimes, but that is a minor problem.<P>You haven't run the seat full travel in any direction, have you? I've seen some of the old 4-way buckets get jammed up if they were run full forward. Then you had to take the drive cable loose and use a drill motor to move the seat backwards far enough so the seat motor/transmission could work it again.

You can't go wrong with the Edelbrock package- cam, intake and carb. They're designed to work together and their dyno tests are pretty dead-on what you'll see real world. For an otherwise stock car with headers, gears and stall, this will be the most pain-free way to go.<P>I like Dick Miller's stuff, plus he's a hell of a good guy to deal with. He doesn't have quite as much ego as the other Olds doctor. Think Comp makes his cams, he's right down the road from them in Memphis, and he's been involved in their R&D.<P>Engle makes Mondello's cams. They make power. I had a Mondello spec 455 in a 73 Delta convertible that could break mid 9 sec 1/8 miles with 3.08 gears and curb weight of 4700 lbs. On the street it could lay waste to a mildly built 5.0 Mustang and not breathe hard. All depends on whether you want to deal with their egos, and they're big as Texas.

This usually indicates a vacuum supply problem. First- check the vacuum hoses underhood, both at the engine and at the vacuum storage ball on the RH fenderwell. After 25 years you may have a broken or dryrotted hose. GM was using hard plastic vacuum lines by 1977 with rubber connectors at valves and storage balls.<P>Next- the vacuum selector valve on the A/C control may be leaking enough to cause this. It's a simple enough repair and common enough that I'd bet the local GM dealer has a few on the shelf.<P>If these don't fix the problem, it will be a failed vacuum motor on the upper or lower mode door inside the heater case. This requires removing the heater case from inside the car to fix and the vacuum diaphrams may no longer be available.

I've got three that do this and all have started it in the last few months. These cars get driven about 100 miles a month, so they move enough fuel thru the tank that the sender unit shouldn't stick.<P>I think it's got something to do with current gasoline formulations.

A light blue one means a third one may have surfaced. The NC car was black/white/white. The MI car is Turquoise Mist/white interior and that is kind of a mint green. Around 37k miles is what I hear.<P>Being in Joisey, I take it you know about the Mager 66 4-speed coupe? Rumour of another one stuffed in an old garage about 30 miles east of here but I can't confirm it.

There weren't many and they were nice stylish cars. A good friend bought a 90 new and loved it except the drivers door power window regulator kept breaking. I still see one here every once in a while. Hang onto it.

Got your private message and have had time to research it. The standard tire size for 1966 Cutlass convertible was 7.35x14 bias ply. An airconditioned car or one with oversize tire option would use 7.75x14 bias ply. Blackwalls were standard, whitewalls an extra cost option in both sizes. Think Coker Tire has both these sizes in BFG Silvertown, Firestone and USRoyal reproductions though they can be pricey. For a car that will be driven at all, I'd forgo a few judging points and install radials.<P>I don't have exact dimensions on where the Cutlass script was positioned, but on the Cutlass and Supreme series cars the script was located on the quarter panel or rear door, just a few inches in front of the rear wheel opening and above the body sculpture line and side molding. F85 and 442 had their scripts at the back edge of the quarter, with a louver (442) or "V8" ornament on the front fender on 330 equipped cars. 6-cylinder cars didn't have it.

The disc brake wheels are indeed different. 1966 and drum brake 1967s use the same wheel. 1967 disc brake and all 1968-76 Toro/Eldo use the same wheel. The center spider is the difference. It wraps around deep on the 66-drum 67 wheel and is much shallower on the 68-later wheel. There was a chrome wheel option thru 1970. Some 73-later wheels have fewer cooling slots than the earlier ones, but if you're using full wheel covers, moot point. They function the same.<P>Every 1966 CSM I've seen has the 9400-9600 Toronado section. I think you must have got a bad one from an unscrupulous seller. The one I have is beat up and missing its covers, but at the very back there's 16 sections specific to the Toronado- probably 100 pages or better. Pages 3EA-18/19 show the carrying height adjustment and special tool.<P>You should still be able to leave negative ebay feedback on that csm transaction. You didn't get what you bid on. Try Paul Politis 717-987-3702, Fort Littleton PA. He's been an incredible source for me and always reasonably priced. As in I bought six sets of Olds Service Guild/Technical Bulletins from him for $100 including 1967 and 1970- which usually go for that much each.

I appreciate the kind words. I've always felt that experience should be shared if it will help someone else with an old car. They've beat me up enough the last 30 years that I can say, "the voice of experience speaks!"<P>Just curious, Streets- why were you disappointed with your 66 CSM? Condition, price? There's very little else out there that can give the information those can.

And natcherly something like this comes along AFTER I have shelled out the change for another 1964 coupe...<P>For DF general info- there are only two 4-speed convertibles known to have been factory built out of 172 total 4-speed 1965 Starfires. One is currently in Michigan, the other was in NC up to about 6 years ago and then I lost track of it. The NC car was an anomaly- it was a no option car. Not even a radio or backup lights. Special ordered by a doctor who wanted to go fast in class. It was for sale in the $25k range even then and was too rich for my blood.<p>[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

Must be something in the Kentucky water or dirt. <B>TWO</B> teenage 50 Buick owners there. And a bunch more under 25 scattered thruout this topic- maybe this helps dispel the notion that Buick is an old man's car?<P>Guess you've noticed that this thread carried over into the AACA forum. Lots of younger folks there too, along with folks who are still young in their outlook. The hobby will survive.<P>CompactBC- you're my kinda old car guy! although most of the street racing action I see anymore involves Hondas or V8 powered S10 pickups. Every so often, I have to demonstrate to the Honda crowd how a FWD burnout is properly done. And watching their jaws hit the pavement when they see my Toronado do its thing is priceless!<BR> <p>[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

There's a G-Body Webring that you can link to from the OCA website. They'll have what you seek.