NTX5467

The main GM Oldsmobile website has a section on OSV (Oldsmobile Speciality Vehicles) that includes a high perf Alero (4cyl and manual transaxle) and the companion Intrigue (either supercharged 3.5L or NorthStar V-8). That might be where the Alero you mentioned was seen?<P>As the Alero and current Grand Am use the same chassis calibrations and platforms, probably built in the same plants too, when the Olds brand goes away they will need another product to keep production up and the plants open so a Buick variation might not be so much out of the question.<P>I doubt it would have the 3800, but that would be nice. The transaxle probably would not take the torque of any V-6 though with any degree reliability.<P>As Buick has evolved into the "upscale" luxury import fighter orientation, it would definitely be appropriate for them to have some kind of high perf sedan as Lexus and Infinity do. The Regal GS might not be all that far off, except for the perception that it is "outdated" technology wise with a camshaft buried inside the engine. In any event, I suspect that GM Powertrain could rise to the necessary level if the same management people that killed Oldsmobile will let them.<P>But with the Impala allegedly getting a V-8 in '03 (as mentioned in GM High-Tech Performance magazine a month or so back), then the Regal could also have it. Cadillac probably can't use all of the extra NorthStars that Oldsmobile will not need anyway.<P>Ponder the possibilities . . . . . Even with front wheel drive, the stability systems tend to make which pair of wheels drive the vehicle a moot point, so a more agressive chassis setup with more OHC power might be an interesting situation. Most of the chassis hardware is already in the aftermarket pipeline for Grand Prixs as are engine mod packages for the supercharged GTP models. It just takes someone to make it happen, yet I shudder at the factory price.<P>Most of the handling is related to the basic geometry of the suspension, yet with juggling of spring and sway bar rates with some tire/wheel/strut tuning, the basic ride doesn't have to be that bad and also not float.<P>Enjoy!<P>

Now that Yahoo! has purchased almost every web ring/mail list internet entity, you can probably go into Yahoo!Groups and search for "Buick" and find some. I do know that there are some GM-specific newsgroups in the Usenet newsgroup area (I used to access them from an automotive area that was something like "ClassiCar.com" or similar). The newsgroup I remember was a general GM car group instead of Buick specific, but there were many later model Buick posts.<P>Also, there are some individual webpages for owners of those vehicles. Depending on how you look at it, they typically seemed to be younger people who were more interested in a great stereo system than what kind of vehicle it was.<P>You might also go into GeoCities (which Yahoo! also owns) and look for Buick items and individual pages. Somewhere, you might find a link to a newsgroup/mail list you are looking for or might generate enough interest to start and moderate a mail list dedicated to those Buicks.<P>It now seems fashionable for each internet portal to have their own "communities" also. Some of these might also be investigated.<P>Enjoy!

As I recall, the spreadbore Rochester QuadraJet 4bbl debuted on the mid-year introduction 1965 Chevy Caprice 396. With that time frame, it could have been on some combinations of Buicks the next year. Might not have been quite the "standard" 4bbl for a few years afterward, but still available.<P>Also note that the 1957 Buick sales lit also referred to "Quadra Jet" carburetion for the 4bbl carburetors that year. They were NOT the same carburetor as they were of the earlier 4GC family of "square bore" Rochester 4bbl carbs.<P>There are some very experienced rebuilders who tend to specialize in spread bore QuadraJets. There are kits/procedures to fix worn throttle shafts and other related wear-related problems. A place called "The Carburetor Shop" comes to mind.<P>Do not forget to use the correct base gaskets under the carb. as the carb and intake need to be a "matched set" in that respect. I'm not sure if the Buick variation uses the exhaust heat track in the front of the primary throttle bores and some of the other GM 4bbls of those later 1960s did, but there are specific base gasket parts for each type. <P>If it has the heat track, it needs a matching soft gasket and a matching stainless steel gasket to keep the exhuast crossover heat from the throttle plate of the carb. (soft gasket touches manifold and the stainless piece touches the carb.). The aftermarket people have those parts now and they probably are the same as for a Chevy application prior to 1970. Otherwise, if the manifold does not have the heat track, a regular gasket situation exists.<P>Enjoy!<P>

Perhaps what we could do is look at these engine swaps with a certain perspective. If the vehicle was built "back when", it was very possible it would have had a Buick, Olds, or Cadillac engine, or a Chrysler Hemi as those were typically the "salvage yard go-fast" options of that era. Check out the car magazines of the early 1960s and those swaps (and adapters to put anything anywhere in front of most any transmission) were there. Buick Nailheads, Olds Rockets, Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Chrysler Hemis (all with multiple carb setups) were the upscale engines of choice. They had more tire-smoking torque than any 265-283 Chevy motor back then. That's the way things were back then and I like to still see those cars when they are around.<P>In modern times, GM, Ford, and Chrysler all have great crate motor programs yet the "hands down" choice of power seems to be a Chevy engine. Funny thing is that many of the other GM engines are not significantly heavier and will make more power (in stock form) with greater economy than the modified Chevy 350 "engine of choice". <P>But "everyone" knows how to work on a Chevy V-8 and what makes them tick--key issue to the "unitiated". They could well choose a Buick or Olds vehicle for their style, a Chevy engine/trans combination as it is well-supported by the "industry", aftermarket a/c, and whatever else they wanted to blend the old with the new.<P>A somewhat innovative and easier (?) way if you have the facilities to do it is to put a vintage Buick on a later model complete chassis. One of our local members took a '49 Roadmaster Coupe and plunked in down on a 1979 Cadillac Fleetwood chassis. The wheelbase is the same and most of the body mounts lined up with minimal work. To look at it, the only give-away was the Cadillac Borrani wire wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes--not to mention how it moved and cornered. It would have been nicer with a 455 Buick under the hood, but was at least totally late model GM.<P>One of our other members wanted to wring his neck for doing what he did to that car! But the owner pointed out that he saved it from the crusher plus put it back on the street in a manner that made it easy and fun to drive. Just depends on where the priorities are.<P>As in other things, too many people tend to take the "easy way out" to be like other people and feel like they better fit in to a particular societal group. Those of us who want to see the later engine be true to the marque is one group and those that obviously don't care as long as it turns the tires are the other group. <P>One of the worst cases of a "wrong" engine was when a customer had a 1940s Lincoln Continental with a V-12. He pulled the Lincoln engine and manual trans, sold them to a guy who needed them, and grafted in a 1970s Cadillac engine/trans setup. He'd been through the flathead Fords and their poor reliability on road trips in his earlier life and wanted a modern engine in the classier early Lincoln. I gently questioned "Why a Cadillac and not a Ford 460". The best excuse (not "reason" in this case) he had was that he could get the Cadillac engine (a real luxury car engine and not a mere Ford engine) and he had a buddy at the local Cadillac dealer who could help him with factory parts and knick knacks to make it work. Guess he was trying to get back at Ford for his earlier woes when he tried to keep his flatheads "all Ford". <P>I could not argue his point, but still would have put a 460 or FE family Ford engine in it (maybe a Mercury-specific 410 or Lincoln 462 variant)if it would have been mine. He knew what he wanted to do and did it.<P>Enjoy!<P>

Part of the old hot rod culture was putting luxury car engines where they didn't come. It was cool to have a custom Lincoln with a Cadillac ohv V-8 in place of the Lincoln's flathead or a Chrysler HEMI or Buick in a Ford. Then along came the 265 cid Chevy V-8 and that all changed.<P>In those earlier times, drive train swaps were a way of life. But since everyone had a good ohv V-8 by the late 1950s, things changed.<P>I look at modern street rod engine swaps like I do other things on the car when I see it. Like the correctly restored Plymouth with a Chevy motor, when I see a correctly restored Chevy at a car show with an inexpensive auto supply battery instead of some kind of ACDelco battery, it is a red flag that the owner did not want to go to the extra expense or effort to get good stuff for the car and what other corners did they cut in doing the car (that you can't see). <P>For all of the street rods with motors of incorrect family heritage, if the concept of "tissue rejection" ever happens for them, there will be bunches of small block Chevy motors laying on the side of the road as the car disassociated itself from them.<P>I feel that if someone is really into a Ford, GM, or Mopar product, they ought to take the extra effort and degree of execution necessary to make it a "total" vehicle instead of a "cross breed" with respect to the ENTIRE drive train. In many cases, it's much easier than you think.<P>Yet the perceived "easiest and cheapest" course of action is the small block Chevy V-8. It might be easily recognizable, but it certainly is not designed to the best standards of power/efficiency with respect to other GM engines. <P>But, one key item not yet mentioned, is its size and ease of packaging compared to other GM engines. It and the Ford 289/302 engine family are extremely compact and short in overall height. Only other engine that might compare in that respect is the 3.8L Buick V-6. <P>So, in spite of our orientations, the 350 Chevy motor is the socially acceptable path of least resistance to many. I find it amazing that even some car people don't understand that they could have done something else cheaper that what they did, but doing that outside of their normal supply chain is "foreign" to them.<P>Other considerations are the lack of support from GM for non-Chevy motors in the crate motor program. Plus many of the larger cars and their motors have tended to vanish from the salvage yards as they "crush out" from time to time--as one salvage yard operator mentioned, the heavy cars are the first to go.<P>As long as it's their money, I guess they can do as they please, but don't expect me to stop and drool over something I've seen too many times before. And if my concept of vehicular tissue rejection ever does take place . . . . . (hehe) . . . a lot of people are going to wonder what they did wrong.<P>Enjoy!

I was not really interested in what plants did what back then, but I do remember that during the fwd H-body production years, there was another plant building them in addition to Flint. From my observations, the Flint LeSabres were nicer than the other plant's cars in fit and finish.<P>While there might well be some generalities on these cars' points of production, there was some juggling of plants and capacities within the GM car lines and what might have been true one year might have been changed for the next--especially in the 1980s.<P>For a particular vehicle, decoding the VIN should indicate which plant it was produced in. The last 8 digits should indicate:<BR>production model year, plant, and sequence number for that particular plant (in that order).<P>Enjoy!<P><BR>

The first generation of these H/C platforms were good designs which only got better with the second version.<P>The transaxles had problems during the first years of production when they changed to electronic controls, but are good in the later versions.<P>From the dealership level, the only bad things of the engines were the magnetic "interrupter" falling out of the cam sprocket (which killed the motor as the computer lost that input signal), but that has virtually vanished with the later models for some reason.<P>The window regulators typically have more problems with the ball-stud slide that makes the window go up and down and the clips which keep the glass in the channel. More cost for labor than parts by a long shot.<P>In the later versions, which I would recommend over the earlier ones as most of the earlier situations were engineered out by then, I like the style of the interior and the exterior of the Park Avenues a lot. One of GM and Buick's best efforts in a great car with excellent durability, performance, economy, and style.<P>A T-type/Ultra version would be nice, but I'd definitely put some stiffer struts under it for decreased float. Maybe some Konis or similar and a few other suspension tweaks.<P>Many customers of the first generation car (who had just traded in an earlier model Buick) complained of strut noise from the suspension. Many factory fixes/bulletins resulted, but the problem was probably not really fixed until the later second generation cars with different strut mounts, etc.<P>Down here in the warmer climates, ABS problem are nil except when some speedy-lube person puts incorrect fluid in the brakes. In that respect, you might check the master cylinder caps/gaskets for swelling. <P>In any event, be an informed shopper. If you can find one at a GM dealer with a verifiable history it might be better than a private party, but that is highly variable. At least the dealer can be held more accountable with some type of initial warranty protection or you can buy a GM extended warranty if it's offered.<P>Happy shopping!<BR>NTX5467

Considering how the factory vinyl tops of that general vintage tended to age, especially down here in TX, preparing it might lead to a determination that it is better to replace it just from the age/deterioration issue.<P>The side issues of hidden rust underneath are also very valid. It would be better to get all of that done at the same time and then put a new vinyl top on later. <P>Other than the normal rear window areas, when you remove the top you might also find rust in the pillar area where the quarter panel joins the roof panel. Sometimes, the filler applied in those areas over the spot welds was not done too well.<P>If you refinish the existing vinyl roof, I might suggest you "dull" the dye enough that it is not too shiney and so that it looks "painted".<P>In any event, the vinyl roof typically matches the interior color as an accent. In some respects, a total black car such as that might look better than a two-tone. <P>If you start off keeping it waxed, the upkeep of waxing the top might not be too much worse than scrubbing the vinyl top when you wash it. <P>Just some thoughts as I have large cars with both vinyl roofs and painted roofs.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

Many tire manufacturer sites have spec sheets for their various tires. BFG, Michelin, Firestone, Goodyear all have these as does the various tire sections on the TireRack site.<P>I concur that a P235/60R-15 should equate to the older G60-15 size.<P>From my best calculations, the P225/70R-15 size is the older G70-15 size equivalent. From my observations, if you go from a 70 series to a 60 series, you add "10" to the section width number. Hence going from a G70-15 (P225R/70R-15) to a G60-15 would be the P235/60R-15 size. That relationship typically works. Naturally, the 60 series tire will be shorter in diameter, but wider and have a greater "revs/mile" specification.<P>Personally, I like the BFG site for its specs and the "revs/mile" spec can also relate to the rolling diameter of the tire instead of the rated "unloaded" diameter. But the BFG site requires Adobe Acrobat Reader to see the spec pages.<P>The Coker site is also a good site with some reliable crossover information.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

Adding hardened valve seat inserts is a normal-type automotive machine shop operation, but does require a competent machinist to not ruin a set of heads by cutting them too deeply for the inserts. In one respect, if the motor has already had a couple of valve jobs, the next time time the seats are dressed (hopefully not "cut") might result in them being too far recessed into the casting so doing the hardened seat installation would be the best alternative for such a situation.<P>An article I found in a Chilton trade publication (from circa 1973) showed a Chrysler research exercise. With a 440 Town & Country station wagon at max trailer capacity, it took 12000 miles to totally ruin a set of heads from excessive valve seat recesstion/damage. <P>With respect to the fuel octane situation, the current pump octane ratings can be increased about 4-5 numbers to equate the older Research ratings. I noticed that back in the early 1970s, a premium grade with reputed 100 octane typically had a pump octane rating of 94-95. Similarly, a 92 Research octane regular would be labeled as 87 pump octane. I even used some Phillips 66 "FliteFuel" premium that was posted octane at 95.5 on the pumps.<P>Octane boosters are typically a band-aid fix and somewhat hit or miss as some work well with some fuels and other fuel/booster combinations are of little use. Some of the racing fuel boosters even require main jet enlargments to work right.<P>A more key issue is combustion chamber deposits (which can raise the octane requirement) and keeping them minimized. I suspect that fuel system cleaners can be more beneficial than octane boosters, but they might not work "overnight".<P>I suspect that you can do just fine with super unleaded for octane. Might try some of the name brands to see which works best for you. If it has too much clatter, you might retard the timing 2-3 degrees from factory spec. That might affect the fuel economy slightly and it might be necessary to tweak the idle speed slightly to put it back to where it should be, but should not be enough to cause any problems (from my experiences).<P>If you desire to use "race gas", there are 100+ Research octane race fuels which are unleaded. The leaded fuels, naturally, are not supposed to be for "on road" use and typically 110+ Research octane.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

Change is a fact of life whether we embrace and manipulate it, tolerate it and adjust, or resist it. How we handle it might also be related to our particular "tolerance of ambiguity".<P>Evolutionary changes (the Buick LeSabres, for example) are typically easier to adjust to than revolutionary changes. <P>In the case of computers, if you really like your vintage 286 machine, you will eventually find that it is too slow to do anything on the internet due to the newer programs and protocols which demand faster processors. So do you grouse about it or go get a newer and faster computer so the new opportunities on the internet for enhanced email and instant messaging, not to mention the games? <P>In the case of "The Bugle", if you care to look back to the prior issues when it was the smaller size, when it went to the larger size nothing really changed content-wise. Same paper, same format, and maybe an extra article or so. That was over 10 years ago!<BR>There were no significant evolutionary changes as it aged and moved into the more current times.<P>The paper might have been a little more elegant than the glossy paper, but there were also side issues of the color capabilities of the printer also. As good of a job as they might have done and as loyal as those involved might have been to the BCA, the time for some changes was past.<P>Other than some of the typos I've noticed, I generally like the new version of "The Bugle". It is suddenly alive and vibrant with articles and color. I like the glossy paper and what it brings to the total package. Plus the signals that we have an Editor that has no other agenda than to produce as great a publication as he can. <P>As with all new "ground zero" ventures, I suspect it will take a little fine tuning time for them to digest the constructive input BCA members might have to them. I also suspect they are open to listen to this input also.<P>So, it was definitely time for the magazine situation to change. Even if it was at the same price as before, it would have been fine with me, but it is now documented that it is at a cost savings for the total package deal.<P>There is an issue regarding the "8 fewer pages" and that is what was really on those 8 pages in the previous publications. Being aware of that particular situation, I looked at the first issue to see what was missing and I did not find anything that appeared to be missing. So, with some different formats and layouts, it appears the 8 pages really might not have been needed.<P>As I stated, I like the new version of "The Bugle". It is colorful and exciting like it typically was not before. The staff is obviously putting some efforts into its production that were absent before. The choice of glossy paper enhances the total publication. It now seems we have a comprehensive group doing it instead of several different vendors.<P>As we age, we typically become more resistant to change. This is normal to a certain extent, but to not change with the times can result in a certain amount of stagnation whether in business entities or our personal lives.<P>In any event, I feel the new versions of "The Bugle" are definitely better than they used to be. Looking at things from an unbiased viewpoint, I do support the change to the new vendor.<P>As the publication is done under a contract, there will be a particular length of time it will be in effect. Perhaps those who disagree with the new vendor situation should mount their own proposals for the next contract cycle. But keep in mind that any proposal which might reinstate some of the previous format situations could well be viewed as "moving backward" and "regressive". Therefore, any proposal should seek to further elevate the publication from its new, higher level of execution at no increase in total cost.<P>Enjoy!<BR>Willis<P><BR>

Thanks for your work on the dual white stripe J78-15 glass-belted tires. Their addition will definitely be worthwhile for those owners of Buicks and other luxury makes that came with them.<P>Over the years, there were also some other sizes that came with dual white stripes. Such as H78-15 and L78-15s. Also in glass-belted construction. In some cases, the H78-15 size might also be a good addition (possiby later) as it could also be used on some of the cars as a possible replacement for H78-14 cars which might have had factory disc brakes and needed such a tire.<P>The dual stripe Invicta tires mentioned on the '89 Chrysler were built by Goodyear. Goodyear still builds "Invicta" tires, but probably did the particular ones for that Chrysler model as "oem only" versions.<P>From my experiences, the cold flat spotting mentioned was typically not a problem with any polyester-cord tires and especially a belted tires as it was with the earlier nylon-cord tires. The belted bias-ply tires also rode smoother, lasted longer, and handled better than similar bias-ply tires.<P>Having some original BFG Silvertowns of the earlier '70s vintage on one of my cars, they were notable for their wider, thicker sidewalls and resultant wider section width. I believe these were there to keep from scuffing the sidewall against curbs. There might be some clearance concerns with the inner tie rod ends as a result of this extra wideness.<P>In any event, it's nice to see some luxury car size belted tires start making it into the restoration tire arena. Thanks for the efforts.<P>NTX5467

TWO QUESTIONS?<P>1--Why pose this question in the forum instead of contacting the President of the BCA Board of Directors or any other member of the Board of Directors??? I would suspect that, if the questioner is a paid up member, they might be able to request such information wihout getting the general membership involved and further fragmented on this issue.<P>2--Why are the BCA numbers of these supposedly paid-up BCA members listed as "*" instead of numbers? Are they fearful for their identities??? If so, why???<P>In conclusion, if this is a valid concern to the original poster, then I feel it should be addressed to the Board of Directors DIRECTLY and not to this or any other similar forum.<P>Thanks for your time and consideration.<BR>NTX5467@cs.com

In many cases the underhood insulation was under the hoods of luxury make vehicles. In the earlier times where the hood lines were high and there was much underhood air space, the basic orientation might have been to decrease the noise under the hood. It could also have decreaesed the oil can effect of the hood sheet metal in some instances also.<P>By the 1960s, when hood lines were lower and underhood air space was minimized from what it was in the earlier decades, the heat issue also started surfacing. With the decreased distance between the hood and the engine, there was no space for convection cooling of the stopped engine. This is what the engineers call "hot soak" and could lead to hot restart situations where the gas tended to evaporate from the float bowl from the more sustained heat periods. If the engine was not running, there was no air circulation under there unless it was from outside breezes.<P>Being that GM did not put body paint on the undersides of the hoods, they were typically primer black. It's simple physics that black, especially satin black, absorbs heat. If the other side of the sheet metal is painted, that's where the heat will be dissipated to the atmosphere--just as the defroster does to the windshield to melt ice on a winter day. <P>In that situation, the fiberglass insulation is definitely heat insulation and can save the paint on the top outside areas of the hood panel. <P>In my younger years, I suspected it was just for sound insulation also. A service manager told me that it was heat insulation and that it made the paint on the hood last longer. I thought that was a little suspect until I started noticing that cars like we had, but without the hood insulator pad, did have paint problems not related to how the paint was cared for as they aged in the west Texas sun.<P>Enjoy!

The earlier AFBs, from about '67 back in most cases, use a smaller air horn mounting "circle" than the later AFB versions now available and the similar Holley carbs now available. There is an adapter you can purchase to make the air cleaners with the larger base plate hole adapt to the smaller mounting circle of the earlier carbs. You might need to adjust or replace the air cleaner stud for something a little longer also.<P>

Ford spec Type F fluid has a more agressive intial fluid characteristic than the Dexron fluids. That's why it has a "quicker" shift in a trans designed for Dexron. TrickShift is a B&M transmission fluid which approximates the Type F shift characteristics in non-Ford transmissions.<P>Later Ford transmissions, switched to Dexron fluids and their current Mercon fluid is basically the same as Dexron and many makers claim they are interchangeable.<P>Also be aware that many of the newer Ford and Chrysler transmissions/transaxles require trans fluids of particular specifications which can't be deviated away from and are necessary to keep the trans from cooking.<P>I have observed that the current Dexron III and the previous Dexron IIE fluids tend to shift cleaner than the previous Dexron II fluids. Might have something to do with the electronic controls of the current GM transmissions needing a little different viscosity package or something.<P>The previous Turbo 350, 375, and 400 transmissions will tolerate Type F with no problems (from previous experiences). In doing a change over from Dexron to Type F or other fluids, it might be advisable to do an extra fluid change after the initial fluid and filter change when going to the other fluid. The shift quality will be a little crisper and firmer with the Type F fluid.<P>The flush procedures now in vogue at the service centers require an operator that will carefully monitor the fluid replacement machine--I'd rather invest in a few more pan gaskets and do a couple of fluid changes instead, personally.<P>Enjoy!

Until the "lock up" temperature is reached, the clutch will freewheel. On initial startup, it might be tighter until the fluid inside gets to where it needs to be, then it will freewheel or decouple. <P>Lockup temp typically is going to be above 190 degrees. With the cooler temps of this time of the year, possibly everything is operating as designed.<P>Even at highway speeds, it should not be locked up until the temp gets to about 210 degrees. If the undercar baffles are in place, there should be enough air flow from the vehicle speed to keep the clutch from needing to be locked up.<P>If you want something "stiffer", you can get in the Delco fan clutch catalog and check the dimensions for the clutch for your vehicle. Then match one of similar dimensions (especially shaft length and total depth) for a Chevy pickup application with the towing packages.<P>You can also check with a local dealer (with some older GM paper parts books) to get the original GM part number for the clutch that you can then cross in to the replacement number for AC-Delco clutches.<P>Centrifugal clutches lock up based on fan rpm levels. Thermostatic clutches (with the spring on the front) lock up depending on the temperature calibration of the spring independent of rpm.<P>Email me direct if you have any other questions.<P>Enjoy!

I concur that we all should appreciate the owner's wishes on how they have "done" their vehicles. Each of us have somewhat different resources (monetary and otherwise) to draw from when doing these things. Key thing is that we are all proud of what we have. The hobby is certainly big enough for all of these orientations.<P>The degree of correctness each of us strive for depends on what we want to end up with. That can range from completely factory production correct to completely generic to ultra custom. Just depends on what part of the game you want to participate in.<P>The degree of "incorrect" parts installed on the assembly lines is typically much less now than it was in the 50s-80s due to the decreased number of total combinations. Sometimes they are insignificant (as the Z-28 spec automatic shifter in my 77 Type LT Camaro) or more significant (as in the case mentioned above with the Skylark). Yet they existed. Sometimes, they tended to happen more during the "build out" period at the end of the production model year. Other times as the result of a similar part being at the line and needed to keep things going (like getting a Goodyear spare instead of a UniRoyal spare tire).<P>One other thing is what happens to the vehicle after it leaves the assembly plant. If the car suffers some transportation damage, the transportation company typically would repair the damage prior to the vehicle being delivered to the dealer. Not to mention if it went to an outside vendor for additional equipment/modifications (as in the first T-tops in 1977). <P>Then there's the issue of dealer-installed options. Some were GM and others were similar but generic. If the item was added as part of the sale, the dealership sales document should reference that. But if the dealer added some or body side moldings or a decal package "to make it sell better", then the customer believes "it came that way". In the either case, the long buried vehicle file would document that but damage repaired by the transport company would not be documented at the dealership level.<P>Goes back to the documentation prior to restoration issue.<P>I have seen vehicles which some have modified for whatever reason that would have been much more valuable if they were exactly correct or had been kept "unmolested". I have seen some cars made into race cars that were totally straight bodywise with no rust prior to being gutted and roll caged back when that particular vehicle was plentiful.<P>In the case of muscle cars and others where "numbers match" defines the vehicle. Just like the only difference in a bare 302 Z-28 cylinder block and a generic 327 or 350 cylinder block (depending on model year) is the stamps on the block and the other engine parts attached to or installed in it. They were both 4 inch bore small block castings to begin with. If the original owner had the original block decked as part of a blueprinting operation, the numbers were machined off and that numbers match vehicle--even with all of its original parts intact--ceases to be "numbers match" unless there is another VIN/sequence stamp on the block in another location. In many cases, numbers match situations are important, but in others I feel they are somewhat overstated.<P>Just depends on how you want to or can afford to play the game.<P>Enjoy!<P>

The issue of "what is correct" is much more open-ended than many enthusiasts/hobbiests might suspect. Even with the assembly line where they are supposed to all be the same, there will be differences.<P>Some of these differences can relate to on-the-line substitutions to keep the line running. Others can relate to different vendors/suppliers which are near the particular assembly plant. And then there are the particular "running changes" made during the production cycle.<P>In addition to these issues, the parts which GM or ACDelco furnished as factory/OEM replacement parts for warranty/general repair later in the vehicle's life could well be significantly different than the original. Even the liscensed GM Restoration Parts might be different--depending on which blueprint they used during the particular part's history.<P>While each manufacturer has its "assembly manual" (which you can buy reproductions of from some literature vendors), these indicate much about the vehicle's assembly (i.e., hose clamp positions, lubricants, paint, options). But the other key issue is how the line person actually puts the vehicle together and the inspector "marks" acceptance of such.<P>On the issue of inspection markings and stamps, these are used to signify the fact that the particular assembly operation has "passed inspection". While the particular colors might be standardized for each component area, they possibly can vary. Just as the position and "aiming" of the inspection stamp. It all depends on who does it, at which plant, and which shift.<P>In some cases, paints can vary in shade. Each plant has its dedicated paint vendor who is supposed to mix the paint to a particular formula. But if a vehicle is made in two different plants (i.e., 70s Camaro/Firebirds) the vehicles with the same paint code might not be the exact same color. This happened with the multitude of gold Firebirds in the late 70s--the GA plant gold was several shades off from the CA plant. This was not particularly noticeable when the cars were apart, but very noticeable when the cars were side by side or when "factory pack" paint was used when repairing/spot painting the vehicle.<P>The best thing is to carefully clean and disassemble the vehicle (for restoration) and carefully document all of the various aspects of the vehicle--paint/inspection marks, colors of components, relative gloss of the colors, if a part is "natural" or "coated", fasteners, and determine which were original and which were not. Then, upon reassembly make sure all of the inspection marks, etc. are duplicated as they originally were on the particular vehicle. This will be easy to do with the photographic documentation you have built for the vehicle. This detailed documentation can later serve to prove how your particular vehicle was in its original state.<P>Many enthusiasts/hobbiests don't understand what all of those funny markings were or mean. Therefore, they just paint over it. In so doing, they loose much of the originality of the restoration (remember the orientation toward "end of the assembly line" vehicles?) and possibly use the incorrect paint also. <P>They want to make it look better than it did originally--"over restoration". Such might play well to the indoor show crowds, but not to the people who like to see painstakingly correctly restored vehicles. Just depends on which "game" you want to play. In all cases, the correct vehicle (with detailed documentation of the restoration process)will typically be the better long term investment. It takes more effort to get there, but it's worth it from my observations.<P>The key is not to use the "they weren't all exactly the same" orientation to do something inappropriate in restoring/reconditioning the vehicle. It is good to make use of more modern materials in many cases or take a few liberties from a preservation/deterioration standpoint, just so long as they don't detract from the "original" aspect.<P>Enjoy! <BR>

This seems that it could well be a "no win" situation. While we might take the orientation that we might police the hobby (of sorts) to look out for the good of our associates who might buy such a vehicle--which is a great orientation--doing this can be more trouble than it's worth. Similar to informing a seller at a swap meet that the part he says is for a 56 Century is really for a 55 Special, for example.<P>Their buddy (the "expert" they believe and give credibility to) told him it came off his father's 56 Century. You know for a fact that it fits your 55 Special and is totally specific to that car and year. If you try to correct the seller and challenge him on it, he will probably take the defensive mode and it doesn't matter what you say or prove, he will believe his buddy over you no matter what. <P>Same thing could happen on the clone GS. If the guy with it now for sale did the emblem deal, he might or might not admit to it. If it was done prior to his buying the car, it's a different situation. Either way, there's going to be some bad feelings in the deal.<P>I figured out with the swap meet situations where I knew what the part was (by number and description) and the seller said it was for something else, I learned to just walk away and let someone else get "educated". The seller was not going to believe me and the price he wanted was typically too high as a result of it being so desireable.<P>The desire to correct the seller on what he had for sale would have been done with the best of intentions for him and who might buy the vehicle, but such good intentions can be more trouble than they are worth (in time, effort, and elevated blood pressures).<P>While we would want to purchase a correctly badged vehicle, others might not care if it's what they want. Probably the best course we could take is to advocate that all potential purchasers research the vehicles they are considering and go from there. The information is out there if they want it.<P>Any vehicle which is considered desireable can be cloned whether it is Ford, GM, Chrysler, or otherwise. The purchaser needs to be aware of what they are looking at before they pay for it. As always, be an informed consumer.<P>Enjoy!

I would tend to agree with Coker's recommendations as they typically are based on correct dimensions than load carrying capacity. I initially suspected the 7.60-15 size to be a little large for the 1962 LeSabre, but verified it in the 1991 BCA Roster tire section.<P>Looking at later LeSabre/Wildcats in that list to get an idea of the size progressions, I believe you will find that several years later on the same body series went to 8.45-15 sizing. That would equate to the older 7.10-15 size being replaced by the similar 8.15-15 size and the 7.60-size being replaced by the 8.45-15 size.<P>The 8.15-15 size later went to 8.25-15, G78-15, and now P215/75R-15. Similarly, the 8.45-15 size became the H78-15 and now the P225/75R-15. That would leave the larger sizes of old to be replaced by the 8.85-15, J or L/78-15, and now P235/75R-15.<P>The P235/75R-15 tire is quite a tall tire. I suspect that the P225/75R-15 would be the best from dimensional charteristics and have great cosmetics also and also work well with your stock width wheels--15x5.5 wheels might be a bit narrow, but the 15x6 would be fine. <P>With the P225/75R-15 size, if you have sufficient body and suspension clearance on the inner side of the wheel, you might consider the bulkier P235/70R-15 size that came on the most recent Roadmasters and is currently common on the S-10 Blazers. This size would certainly work best with the wider 6" wheel due to the wider tread width. Any of these three sizes whould be available in whitewalls.<P>In any case, some people have differing ideas of how they want their vehicles to look. I doubt that there will be issues with the tires hitting the body with the wheels turned and also going through dips, etc. But the ultimate width might be an issue with the steering/suspension areas on the front, although I suspect everything will be fine there also (unless you get something totally out of whack with the width or custom wheels).<P>My recommendation would be the P225/75R-15 in a quality brand of your choice. The P235/70R-15 could possibly be an alternative with the 15x6 wheels. I'd start with about 28-30psi f/r tire pressure and see how that went (with your useages and loads) and maybe go upward from there.<P>With the tire upgrade, do not forget about the rest of the suspension items and make sure they are in great shape to fully enjoy the new radial tires and to make sure they last like they should.<P>Enjoy! <P>

Thanks for verifying my previous post Bob. I could not find my archive information on that subject, but knew I saw it back in the 1960s.<P>There are some other stamp codes on GM wheels which can relate to other aspects of the wheel other than rim diameter and width. These stamps are typically near the valve stem hole (steel wheels) or on the reverse side (aluminum wheels). Typically, these stamp codes are three letters ("RAL" is one that comes to mind for a late model Chevy light truck wheel) and will need a GM parts book to determine the what the wheel came on.<P>For example, two "identical" wheels with different stamp codes might also relate the vendor who built them for GM--not to mention how the wheel is shaped on the inner side to clear things (such as disc brakes instead of drum brakes), if the wheels are "directional", plus the other items I will mention below.<P>I understand, for example, that there are different stamp codes for the 15" Riviera chrome wheels (1960s-70s) as opposed to the similar looking wheels which came on other Buicks of those and later years. I believe these intracies were detailed in an ROA club magazine article on such.<P>These codes can also relate to offset due to their particular vehicle applications. For example, the "common" Chevy 15x7 Rally wheel has two variations that I know of--one for Malibus/Monte Carlos of the late 60s and early 70s and one for Corvettes. In that case, the wheel offset is the significant difference as they otherwise look the same until you put them side by side. The Corvette wheel is basically "O offset" while the other variation is the "normal rear wheel drive" Chevrolet offset.<P>These additional codes might be more information than you might have wanted, but it can make a difference in how the wheel works on the vehicle not to mention concours judging situations. There might also be some date code stampings which might also be significant in some judging situations.<P>Enjoy!

The point systems were fine as long as they were not subject to shaft bushing wear and the rubbing block is not worn. If you can't set the gap to be within dwell degree specs, it might be worth considering the electronic setup.<P>If you keep the points, remember to get some point grease (remember that?) to put on the rubbing interface of the point rubbing block and the contact cam it rubs on. The last points I bought did not have the little vial of grease, but it can still be had from Mallory (last I bought) and I believe it is still in the GM Standard Parts catalog (but might require multi-tube minimum order quantities -- life time supply). <P>Without the necessary lubricant, the rubbing block on the points will wear prematurely and require readjustment too soon. If there's an oil cup sticking out of the side of the distributor housing, a few drops of oil might also be in order.<P>Much of the joy of having a finely tuned vehicle have been taken away from us by electronics over the years. Especially if you took pride in your job of doing the tuning just "so-so" on your pride and joy. One piece of electronics leads to another and another, plus a cell phone with a fully charged battery.<P>Enjoy!

The 7.5" GM rear axle might have 10 rear cover bolts, but it not the same as the other GM axle normally called a "10 bolt" which has the 8.5" ring gear diameter. The 8.5" 10 bolt has a completely round rear cover and gasket. The 7.5" axle has a rear cover and gasket that are not completely round (more oval) plus totally different architecture where the brakes mount on the axle housing ends.<P>The 7.5" axle was originally under 4cyl and 6cyl Chevy Novas (the original ones in the 70s) and a different housing version came out with the 78 Malibus (and similar), the 82 Camaro/Firebird, and 82 S-10s. It was not really designed to be a high horsepower item considering its original uses.<P>The 8.5" axle is the classic GM 10-bolt axle. Also remember that Buick and Olds had their own axles in many cases in the 60s and 70s that did not cross over into the other carlines, but would fit under similar body series vehicles (i.e., Malibus, Cutlass, LeMans) as the frames and rear suspension mounting points were usually the same. Many GM 1/2 ton pickups also came with a version of the 8.5" 10-bolt rear axle from the 1970s on up to more current times. <P>As far as ratios, similar ratios were available for each ring gear diameter axle. Typically from low "2"s up to 3.73 and maybe 4.10 in a few applications over the years.<P>Hope this clarifies the situation somewhat.

I hadn't thought about using GPS for speedometer checks, but it might work pretty well. Consider that the whole GPS thing was a US military situation to locate our troops without using radio transmissions and supposedly have an accuracy of 25ft. I understand the civilian version's tolerance is a little greater (50-100 feet maybe).<P>The less expensive handheld GPS units are typically sold in hunting stores or stores that sell hunting equipment/items. Some do have the "where I've been map".<P>The GPS units which have driving instructions are somewhat more expensive and typically have dedicated vehicle installations. These instructions will have detailed distances between turns, etc. The same driving instructions and distance information can be found on many of the map sites on the web which have driving instructions as part of the site.<P>Another way to check for speed and distance is the G-Analyst item that uses accelerometer information and an internal clock to compute time and speed items. It is typically used in autocrossing to measure lateral G forces in cornering and other driving activities. It's price is still under about $200.00 and would have more vehicular uses if you don't go out in the wilds hunting or camping.<P>Enjoy!