Jack Bennett

Change………..Nope………..Adaptation……….You bet! I was fortunate that I did have the privilege of spending 57 years of my life being married to my wonderful wife. Even more fortunate, as compared to many others, I was privileged to spend the first 13 years of my life as a full time retiree with her. But, as with abs, glutes, long hair and late nights, that too had to end, and the passing of my wife made it possible, and necessary to make some adjustments to my hobbies, and how they were done. I was building bicycles when I was 12 years old, and my favorite toy was a single cylinder Maytag gas engine. I spent more time with my old Maytag engine than I did family or friends. And, that seemed totally normal until I got my first twin cylinder Maytag engine, and heard a P-51 Mustang fighter plane engine, and than things became complicated because a triangle love affair had entered into my 14 years of life. Now I have both the time and finances to play at whatever hobby I choose to pursue, but have lost the wander lust, no longer spend weeks of RV travel, camping or fishing. Rather, I enjoy the freedom I experience while working on my antique machines, and the time I spend with them are of equal value as a source of relaxation or excitation as visiting Niagara Falls or Carlsbad Caverns. I did say freedom because the topic of the thread asks for comments on how age has changed my interests in restoring/fixing up my old cars has changed. And my first comment on that involves the freedom to exercise my ability to select what it is that I choose to do/not do in regards to restoring/fixing my old cars. I will never believe I can “restore” a 100 year old car to a condition it retained for scant minutes from the time the last bolt was tightened, and the few minutes it took to be moved from the assembly line to the resale lot. And, it makes no sense to me to place myself in a constant state of competition with the professionals who MAKE big bucks from humongous amounts they are paid to restore a car, or a person afflicted with OCD or a compulsion to keep everything they possess just a smidgen bigger, more luxurious, taller, faster, brighter or deeper than anyone else. Instead I have accepted the idea that, at nearly 80 years old, there is no such thing as a MINOR injury. It now takes longer for things to heal, and the single accident which may lead to total physical or mental disability may be waiting mere inches behind the bumper of my old Fargo panel truck. That does not mean that I can’t/won’t tear the bumper off, use a zip tool to slice a few fender bolts loose, or even do a questionably necessary engine-transmission exchange. However, along with the ability to buy a replacement engine-transmission, for a hobby car, spend time, energy and money on a vehicle which rides like a buckboard, steers like a semi and will never be safe at speeds above 35 MPH, comes the wisdom which also makes it reasonable for me to do absolutely nothing. And there are days I choose to do exactly that……nothing. My hobby machines range between an old Cushman motor scooter, through an old Ford tractor, and include an old sedan, an old roadster and an old panel delivery truck. This assortment provides me with something to do regardless of my energy level, joint pains, weather or time of day. There is always some body work to be done, paint can always be applied, electrical tasks on these machines will never end, upholstery needs can run from re-carpeting a wood floor to cutting new floorboards, and now, with the Fargo Express panel, there is always another piece of wood to be cut or a metal piece fabricated. Of course there are times when no physical effort is required, but the amount of pleasure derived from the old car hobby is not age related. Shopping for parts on eBay, Amazon or one of the old car forums can be mentally stimulating and rewarding when the part, especially those made of unobtanium are found and procured. I guess I should have mentioned the mechanism our old obsessions provide in regards to the social community. I am retired military and retired department of corrections. I have worked in blue collar supervisory positions, but I have nothing in common with the real estate mogul or the president of a bank. But there was no physical exertion, no super human feats of mechanical ability, and gender or nationality never came into play during the three hours I spent talking on the phone to a fellow three thousand miles away about the motor mounts for my old Fargo panel truck. Now, that is a strange occurrence these days!

I am looking for two hinges which will work on the doors of my 1929 Fargo Express panel truck project. Snyders has them listed as being for 1928-1929 truck and panel delivery…….and I simply can’t see paying $88.00 plus S&H for a single door hinge. Any help here will be appreciated and I will pay a fair price and the S&H charges are to be expected.

LA is one huge city, and it isn’t hard to believe that much of the area covered by its Sheriff’s Department is rural and remote to the city. According to the piece, there are “hundreds” of Crown Vic’s still in service, and the “429” seems to reflect the number, and not the engine displacement, of cars still in service. Nor is it hard to believe that a Deputy Sheriff , sitting in a completely stock 2011 Crown Victoria, parked in the lot of a rural shopping mall, doesn’t attract a lot of attention. Since the danger to a law enforcement officer is increased exponentially at the end of a high speed chase, and the officer, driving a naturally aspirated, 2011 Crown Vic, in pursuit of a 2023 Mustang or Porsche, chance of actually catching them is reasonably unlikely. Thus, reducing the possibility of the Deputy being injured as the result of a successful chase is one consideration. Another is the funding of a well populated Sheriff’s Department, which can only be helped by voters held aghast by seeing one of their own driving a classic cruiser, in pristine condition, and kept running by a endless supply of 2011 Crown Victoria donor cars. Now, I rest my case regarding the serviceability, and continued expenditure of good money, on car a scant decade old, and will retire to my garage to work on my 100 year old Dodge Brothers Roadster, or maybe go outside to work on one of my other 90+ year old cars🙄.

I am in the process of media blasting the frame of the 1929 Fargo Express panel truck I recently adopted. I have noticed that there are loops, as you would use to attach a belt, cast into the spring ends where they attach to the shackles. My 1927 Willys Knight has similar loops, attached to the axles by u-bolts, which are used to terminate the axle end of the belt attached to the Gabriel Snubbers. However, there is no mounting point on the Fargo’s frame to hint that there was ever a snubber installed. And the availability of printed information on this truck is so sketchy that I will probably never find a authored answer. So, I will throw this out to the “feet on the ground” group of Fargo/Dodge Brothers fans who frequent the AACA and DB club forums. Did the 1929 Fargo Express panel delivery (packet 1/2 ton) have an option of installing snubbers, Gabriel or otherwise, on its suspension system? It’s Monday, and, if you are reading this post, must be mired down with too many “have to do’s”, as I am. So, the time it takes to respond to this thread is duly appreciated.

Just to be clear, this is the body of my 1923 Dodge Brothers Roadster, most assuredly, and totally verifiable as being a “all metal body”……which is only partially true. The car has metal springs on the seat bottom, but the seat back and all attachment points for the top are wood. And, just to continue the argument as to when the use of wood, or another fiber material was discontinued for use in attaching upholstery, well, if it were not for the fiber strips built into my 1951 Plymouth Cambridge, there would be no trim or upholstery in the car.

Golly…….Gee Whiz…….This is a old thread, and I feel antiquated by responding to it. But it is still a valid topic of conversation among us mellowed out old car fanatics because it will never be completely answered. Recently I was, as severely as possible for a millennial to jab an old war horse, digitally slapped for correcting an advertisement to sell a 1929 Dodge sedan on another forum. The advertisement states that the car was not plagued with wood rot, as were some other cars of the era, because it was one of the first cars marketed by Dodge Brothers to feature a all metal body. I pointed out that the entire roof was a wooden frame, overlaid with burlap and covered with a fabric. It was also noted, as verified by their own photograph, that the car had wooden floor boards. And, their own photograph of the roof showed that the fabric was torn along the sides, the wood was visible, and the photos of the cars interior clearly showed that the headliner was rotted, in tatters, and drooped over the seats and rear window. In many of the “all metal bodied” cars, the tops and floor boards are as structurally important as the doors and adjoining structures, and when rotted, these parts hold water, dirt, and other acidic contaminates which cause deterioration of every piece of metal they are near. I am currently working on a 1929 Fargo Express panel delivery truck which was marketed as a “Canadian Chrysler” during the two years (1928-1929) that these vehicles was made by DeSoto, in Canada, while Chrysler Corp made up its mind about how it wanted to pursue the line of trucks previously made by the Dodge Brothers, and contractually discontinued after their purchase of the company the preceding year. This truck is 99% wood, and was Dodge, Chrysler, DeSoto, Plymouth, Continental or Maxwell, and were even classified as being “our” engine to clearly establish that they were neither Chrysler or Dodge engines. Is what I just said arguable……….? You bet it is because the production of cars has always been highly competitive and secrecy was essential to selling cars in a environment where there was wars being fought and the world economy was in a tailspin. And Dodge Brothers used some really shady marketing ploys to gain a advantage in this market, and when bought out by Chrysler, handed them a bunch of fabricated, or simply non existent data on their existing cars and trucks, which only added confusion (by absurd claims that their bodies were “all metal”) to murky otherwise simple tasks such as identifying a engine, or, as in this case, defining whether or not a wooden framed top, which the doors and rear windows depend on for structural support, and, even though encased in sheet metal surroundings, fail when the wooden structures fail due to rot. OK……….convince me that a car advertised as having a “all metal” body should be exempt from sheet metal failure due to rot, rust and leakage caused by a “top”, which is NOT considered a part of the body.

Remember me? I’m the guy from Tacoma, Washington who ended up with the 1928-1929-19whatever Fargo Express Panel delivery from Onalaska, Wa. There is no question regarding whether or not the trucks bones are good enough to rebuild because even the bones are rotten. But, there are those who take pride in knitting sweaters for the homeless or even inviting them into their home for a meal, a nap and a tour including their jewelry chest and silverware drawer. I won’t…….but I am as gullible as these poor souls because I feel a need to reclaim the dignity of every old, rejected, neglected, abused and abandoned car or truck I see……and the Fargo meets or exceeds every one of these reclusive reprobates. A mechanical psychologist, or an even a lowly exhaust system proctologist I am not……but I do peruse the forums related to this stuff, and I seem to always see some of the same names, namely yours, Fargoguy, 30Dodgepanel and Rusty_OTool showing up on threads as far back (2018) as this one. And it seems like you folks have done a lot of research on, and show a truly hobbyistic sort of interest in the old Dodge…..or in my case,Fargo, trucks. I have stripped the Fargo down to the bare frame and am in the process of making the patterns I need to restore the wood and metal parts of the body to a condition identifiable as a truck. The engine, which I believe to be a Chrysler 75 or 80 series, but can’t be sure because the head gasket was stolen and there are too many 25”, flat head 6 engines used in these with the top mounted distributor to guess it’s true size or model. Regardless, the engine is locked up, has been soaking in a ATF/acetone mixture for over a month, and shows no sign of turning free. Besides, the cylinder bores of at least three cylinders seems to be deeply rust pitted, the distributor, water pump, oil pump and carburetor will most probably need replacement, and the head has broken in several places and has been welded back together. All-in-all, I did not think the engine is, dollar and dependability wise, repairable or worth a complete rebuild. And, I have been unable to find a bell housing with throw out and pedals and transmission with driveshaft which will fit the 1928-1929 flathead 6 cylinder engine. So, I have bought the complete engine, transmission and drive shaft taken from a 1951 Dodge pickup. The complete setup cost $300.00 and the gas for a F-250 pickup driven to Oregon to pick up the parts. So, here is the deal, and the underlying reason I’m rattling you fellows chain….. The engine presently in the truck is a 25” flathead 6 cylinder which I want to replace with the 1951 model Dodge pickup engine and transmission, which is a 23” block. I do realize that I have a four inch difference distance in the width of the (wider) rear engine mounts on the 25” engine, and the (narrower) mounts on the, what I think to be, 218 CI newer engine. This difference I think I can handle by using two, 2” square pieces of tubular steel to extend the transmission mounts on the engine to the width of the frame mounts in the truck. It seems as though there won’t be a major problem mating the bolt holes in the frame mounts to those threaded into the rear engine mounts on the transmission. The difference in length of the engines is made a bit more complicated by the additional depth of the bell housing on the old engine, as necessitated by the longer starter bendix, and the beefed up construction of its front motor mounts…….a removable steel plate on the newer engine, and built into the timing gear cover on the old engine. This will make it necessary to move the front engine mounts rearward, toward the cab, about five inches. Since there is no crossmember on the frame at this location, I am thinking about fabricating a front mount using chain rather than weakening the already badly rusted frame by drilling to bolt on a metal adaptor or welding to fabricate one. Since the has neither a transmission, it’s related pedals, and no floorboards, I see no real problem in making a set of floor boards built around the location of those on the newer engine, and inclusion of a gas pedal, salvaged from my 1923 Dodge roadster build, as well as the floor mounted plunger on the newer starter, to compensate for the push button operated starter used on the 1929 engine. I am having difficulties finding a set of lines used to connect the oil filter canister to the engine block on the 1951 model engine and, I suppose, may have to either fabricate a new set myself or pay someone to do it for me. The brake master cylinder from the 1929 engine was frozen and completely locked up, but sheer will power, a MAP torch and a large hammer helped it be disassembled and revealed that the old master cylinder body appears to be usable with the 1951 transmission mounts, and, with a good honing of the bore, should work with no modification or adapters needed. I am still in need of a steering wheel with a keyed, 1”, slightly tapered hole where it fits over the shaft in the steering column. Golly gee fellows, this sure is a whole lot of letters, words, sentences and paragraphs to include in a single post which is made for the sole purpose of saying…….”Any help offered will be greatly appreciated”…..but I take great pride in making use of every pixel, of every letter, my hard working dad had instilled into my numb skull………..😵‍💫.

Or, and you have to read my thread “Do you talk to your car” to understand how this can happen.

I often drive by the local wrecking yard as they load the crushed cars on a semi trailer. The cars were destined to meet this end eventually, so my tears aren’t shed for the cars. Rather, I think about how many lives this load of cars has indelibly altered from the time they were bought new until that final push into the smelter. At 20 years confinement per theft, can’t help but wonder how many people are taking a state paid vacation in prison for stealing one of these pancakes.

Copied this from Facebook. I hope it isn’t copyright infringement of some sort because I enjoyed it, and it deserves to be shared. https://www.facebook.com/reel/1029767828037864

Wow!………Really?…………60 years?………The only thing I know for sure about this particular suction gun is that you didn’t buy it from Harbor Freight. Were it me, and I had a tool which had provided 60 years of faithful service, for no reason other than sheer respect, I’d retire that jewel to a honored shelf in my garage. Not knowing the difference between the level of service provided by a 60 year old spray gun, as compared to a new replacement spray gun, my recommendation is that you just buy a new one……..maybe from Harbor Freight. However, knowing that the Harbor Freight spray gun will fail during a critical part of its first use, I’d put it on a shelf looking directly at my old spray gun in hopes it would learn a good work ethic. 🤓

That’s what these forums are all about Minibago. Thanks for the response and helpful information. I am a member of a few clubs which are dedicated to the restoration and collection of old machinery, and they do provide a wealth of information. But, behind the neatly typed, and meticulously organized, reams of information, some good, some not so good, there is a human being which possesses a million more bits of information, and first hand knowledge, for whom the the forum was organized. And I still like that human interface in the same manner as I dislike Dykes Encyclopedia in that I can have a discussion with another human, but printed media is a one way communication. As with every other facet of my many faceted life though,I tend to pay more attention to the things with which I am involved in at the minute, or have a momentary infatuation with something I can’t quite put a finger on. I don’t, and probably never, will own a vehicle with a cone clutch, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want, or need to know more about them. My appetite for more information regarding the cone clutch grew the day I brought the 1929 Fargo Express panel home for the first time, and I discovered the transmission in its bed neither fit my truck, or any other truck I’d ever seen. This occurred only a month ago, and prior to that time a 1915 DB cone clutch ranked among chariot wheels and ox cart maintenance as a matter of immediate concern. I will never use either the transmission, or the attached cone clutch. However, as with anything else which weighs a ton and will need to be dragged around as long as I own it, I like to know as much about the cadaver I’m having to drag around as possible. And, now, thanks to the information you’ve afforded me, if you want the transmission and clutch, and are willing to pay the shipping to get it, it is a matter of respect when I tell you what the clutch ISN’T, and while you can have it, you’ll be wasting your time and money to get it.

Just joking about the fire hazard. If you can’t do it in the rain or snow, you can’t do it in Washington State. I use it in the sauna for about a hour and it seems to work fairly well. And, I have done this for 5 or 6 years without any noticeable bad effects on my health. In addition to the Plymouth I have a 32’ motor home I seldom use anymore. Presently I am able to open it up, and air it out on a regular basis. But I will keep the ozone generator in mind for use there if the situation dictates I have to leave it closed for a long period of time. Thanks for the input.

By George! That is a idea that needs to be considered, and a question that deserves a answer. My 1951 Plymouth Cambridge project is in stasis pending my daughter adding some woman’s touches to complete the new upholstery install. The car will remain a fixture in my driveway until such time, if ever, she returns my door panels, arm rests and trim pieces. I anticipate this will take at least until the chickens comes home next spring, and I have some concern about mold, mildew and their associated smells reoccupying the car as the did when I first brought it home. This thread interests me because I use an ozone generator in my sauna to neutralize these pests, and I wonder if it will work as well on a car interior. It does require a continual 110 volt power source, which would involve use of a long extension cord, and, possibly, present a fire hazard. Regardless, I am going to try it. So, a ulterior motive of this post may be to soften up the forum to where it is possible for me to advertise some 1951 Plymouth Cambridge parts for sale, which range from slightly scorched to burned beyond recognition, without evoking shock.😜.

Oh……….! My attention span is getting shorter and shorter, and the amount of space freed up in my over worked brain is Great! But, the reason I visited your thread was to put in my two cents regarding your gas headlamps. I had to convert my old cars to LED’s for the sole reason the incandescent bulbs didn’t produce enough light to see more than a few feet ahead of the car. And, based on my experience with LED headlights, at this point I would hesitate to advise anyone to make the switch. In the case of a car, already equipped with period correct gas headlamps, unless you do a lot of night driving, I’d swap the existing LED’s for some with more brilliance…..but I would leave the gas headlamps installed and intact. Those have to be great conversation pieces, and I love to talk to people about the oddities of my old cars, so I’d get a million miles of talk about the headlamps alone.

Here is a link to a business from which I have bought LED bulbs and sockets to convert my 1927 Willys and 1923 Dodge from incandescent to LED’s. Good luck…….hope this helps. http://www.classicautobulbs.com/automotive-light-bulbs/antique-vintage/vintage_antique_collector_car_incandescent_bulbs.htm

Thank goodness for oil based paint and little cigar rollers. Were it not for these useful accouterments, so useful when manually applied with a brush, we would not have the works of Pablo Picasso and Michelangelo to brighten our days. I honestly can’t comment on the availability, or spread of colors, of the rattle cans they may/may not have used.

Thanks for the much welcomed input Rusty. My inclination to media blast, wire brush, dry and wet sand multiple times are doused when I finally decide to break out the Rustoleum and the brush. Believe it or not there are some relatively new Chevy trucks here in Washington State which will be piles of rust in scant few years. My entire adult life has been spent doing jobs for people like the Lieutenant who shivers, and picks frozen snot from his frostbitten nose, and yells like a mad man……….”Good Training”……..while I replace a thrown track on a fifty year old tank in knee deep (rice paddy) mud and minus forty degree weather. Now, I am much more interested in the practicality of having a smidgen of metal, now rusted to a near nonexistent state, left when it comes time to put a whole lot of effort into making it beautiful for a neighbor who calls my old cars a “junk yard”. Grinding, sanding, exotic paints, primers and preservatives are ok for a project which has been sitting idle in a climate controlled, warehouse sized, garage for the past five decades. But it is not a wise way to spend money, which is better spent on preserving the safety and drivability of a vehicle when compared to spending a fortune over the years just to store it. My old machines work, and must be drivable. And, in the case of the Fargo, a single distraction from returning it to a operational state, regardless of the number of “OOH’s and AAH’s” or “JEEZ, THAT’S ONE UGLY CREATURE”, I receive while driving it, may be the one minute which decides whether I finish it, or it dies the death it was sentenced to in 1950. In my opinion, if a brush coat of gasoline thinned and dulled OD paint was good enough for a 50 year old M48 tank, which held the lives of myself and three crewmen in it hands when faced with 170,000 fanatical North Koreans, it is surely good enough for a old Fargo truck which would strain under a load of air………. But it meets every need of a old car fanatic, and that is it gives me something to wake up to, and keeps me out of younger peoples faces.

What is a wire brush🙄?

I think the word “later” implies a bit of what we hope for when we do take a 100 year old piece of metal, saved countless times from the smelter, and hope to add years to IT’S life. Actually, the car may achieve a long deserved rest, as we will also, with our passing, and a nifty paint job offers no protection from the grim reaper. ”Later” is a statement of confidence that there will be a future time when we can spend more time with our chariot, and if the conditions permit, give it a new coat of paint. However, if “later” is not a word found in your vocabulary, why bother adding years, regardless of how it’s done, to a car which may not be around “later” to enjoy it?

I am in no position to disagree with the Ming Dynasty using paint and a brush on their sedan chairs because I was only a youngster during that era. I do know of a high school lad who brush painted a 1938 Dodge, a 1941 Dodge, a 1949 Fraser and a 1951 Chrysler convertible. During those days Earl Scheib would paint any car for $49.95, and there was always a bit of paint left over when a paint job was finished. I did get a allowance for doing chores around the house, but there was so many better ways to spend my quarter a week allowance on other than paint. Admittedly, the many different colors mixed together into the single container may not have been a choice presented to Danny “the count” for use on his Counting Cars television program, but it sure was better than spending big bucks ($7.25) for a gallon of car enamel. And, I’ll safely bet that the 38 and 41 Dodges, as well as the Frazer and Chrysler would still be rust free, if they are still around today.

Great minds think alike. I bought the Fargo, knowing absolutely nothing about how it was made, as a winter project. But, the idea that I could do the woodwork in the heated comfort of my shop, and leave the metal until the weather cleared was miserably dashed when I found that the metal had disintegrated every place it had touched the rotted wood. And, it was found that many of the structural pieces of wood were encased in metal, and it was impossible to access them without disassembling the entire structure. And, likewise, when the wood piece was finished it became necessary to reassemble the piece as a assembly, and that included resealing the wood into the metal encasement. It is cold and damp with predictable wind and rain showers for most of the short winter days here in Washington State. Working with a age addled brain is tough, and remembering mistakes is a vitally important step when doing something which can get really expensive, really fast, and can/will go wrong at every opportunity. I stopped making a note of the amount of money I was spending on the expensive acrylic paint jobs I did on the 1951 Plymouth after the third (failed) paint job. On two occasions the paint looked fine, initially, but begin to pucker and buckle free from the primer. And then I read the instructions which clearly say that it should be at least 70 degrees and the paint MUST be applied to a clean, dry surface. Reaching a daytime temperature of 70 degrees is not even possible in the wildest dream, and metal tends to get wet when the humidity reaches 99.9 percent. Of course, the third time was a charm because I woke up at 04:30 in the morning, and by 07:30 had mixed the paint and was ready to start shooting. It so happened that the work crew building the parking lot next door showed up for work early too. By the time the 2nd bucket of rubble was dumped from the skid loader, and the wind carried the dust to my (still wet) acrylic paint job, I realized that sand textured paint would never be a popular choice for a classic car color. So, now, as I disassemble a piece of the Fargo, I take it all into my shop, but spray painting with the wood stove may provide more heat than my shop can handle. Instead, I do the metal sanding one day….or however long it takes, apply a coating of primer, and set it aside in my garage. It is now possible to cut and shape the wood which I removed from the metal pieces, and I can do so at my own pace since it will take a day or two before I can repair the metal and put a final coat of paint on it. I like this because the metal is protected from further rust damage, the wood is finished, and I don’t have a lot of cleanup so far as the spray guns and mixing containers are concerned. And, the idea that I use Tractor Supply Company tractor paint, rather than the three part acrylic, I would normally mix and spray, sure makes the job go smoother and faster as well as the time wasted setting up and tearing down the compressor. Sure, I can expect to tear the truck apart again within the next year and, as the weather and my health permits, redo the paint job with a high gloss, and extremely attractive spray paint job. However, at nearly 80 years old, with one fake arm and another quickly failing, a bad back, calcified lungs and bad feet, I am a little proud when my day ends, my truck is back to black, and I am capable of looking forward to breathing in pounds of sawdust come a new day.

Hopefully, by the time a person can afford the amount of time the complete restoration, of a truly rare car, will take, the grandkids will have graduated Harvard Law School. And, they can pay for it as a token of gratitude for you footing the bill to pay for their education. Quid-pro-quo is not only great…..it is legal.

I think I’ve seen the documentary version of this on a television program called “My strange addiction”.

So…….a friend builds a nifty bridge across their koi pond. They have never built a bridge before, and you’ve never seen a bridge across a koi pond. It is as normal for you to walk to the middle of the bridge and start bouncing like crazy, as it is to float new words on a forum like this. If it doesn’t break, you’ve proven yourself a good friend and a battle tested bridge expert. But, if it does break, the friend is lucky a competent bridge tester, as you now are now, was the one who broke it. I was once told that I should not use any word that I had to look up its meaning. I have managed to ignore that for many decades, and still use words I look up……not to ascertain what the word means to you. And, in the case of your word, and keeping with the spirit of a AACA forum…..I don’t know the plural either…..I would morph your word into a new word “Autothromorphism”, and since looking it up will be useless, I will use it to describe what a truly crappy guy becomes when he is in the presence of his beautifully restored antique car……and asks it for advice🤓.