TTR
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Posts posted by TTR
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A couple of things to consider/remember:
- Use of lead in (older vintage) automotive body manufacturing was to cover/fill/hide assembly seams not intended to be visible on the final product.
In past few decades the manufacturing of automotive bodies and panels has advanced/evolved(?) to a point of eliminating a need for seams requiring such “cover-up”.
- Use of lead (or any other spreadable body fillers, incl. “Bondo”, etc) in just about all automotive body repairs, restorations (or customizing), both modern or vintage, is and traditionally was usually to cover/fill/hide inadequately/insufficiently performed metal finishing, i.e. forming/shaping/welding/etc.
In other words, more fillers (bondo or lead) needed/used means less quality in sheet metal finish.
OTOH, with very few and rare exceptions, whenever someone tells me their repainted/repaired/restored vintage car body doesn’t have any fillers, I assume they’re either lying, don’t know any better or the car doesn’t have smooth/straight panels.
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16 hours ago, edinmass said:
Electronic ignition and a 12 volt conversion are seldom done correctly. Coil polarity, incorrect fuel pressure, worn distributor bushings, the list is endless. Adding an electronic ignition is NOT an improvement. Modern fuel issues and incorrect plugs that don’t adjust for modern fuel, advance curves, put it back stock. When diagnosing a car one shouldn’t guess, it should be a thorough process starting first with mechanical, then electrical, and finally fuel. With the symptoms you posted, it should be a simple diagnosis for an experienced pre war car mechanic. Less than 15 minutes should pin point it. Buicks literally drove BILLIONS of miles with six volt systems for decades and were reliable. I would look hard at the ignition system.
Exactly. 👍
Not to mention countless other brand automobiles/equipment/vehicles/etc in past 100+ years with TRILLIONS of miles & hours successfully having used and many still using 6V systems.-
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7 hours ago, Fordy said:
How do we protest?
Steve
Like always in free market economy, with your wallet ?
After all, this is a hobby for all or at least most of us, right ?
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With all due respect @Fordy , but any chance of placing the other boot or at least a sandal/slipper into the behind of a buyer who fails to ask about potential shipping costs and/or options before proceeding with the purchase ?
As someone who for past +/-40 years has been buying, selling & shipping vintage car parts, including bulky shipments, like individually packed large windshields, etc, not to mention +/-1000 complete motor vehicles to/from pretty much all continents, I’ve always understood not all buyers think of costs beyond initial purchase price, so whenever selling long distance, I try to make them aware before accepting their money and whenever I’m the buyer, if a seller fails to provide upfront shipping, etc costs/estimates, I make sure to ask about them before committing to buy.
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On 10/16/2023 at 2:57 PM, Matt Harwood said:
Is there a shortage of worn-out old Desotos I didn't know about?
Exactly.
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To properly set any alignment in all, but especially older cars/trucks, one needs to know not only factory specifications, but also what static settings (i.e. is the car to fully loaded with fuel, spare, jack/tools, how many, if any passengers, etc ?) they're based on.
All this information can usually (and often only) be found in the manufacturers repair/service/workshop manuals, hence my earlier comment about obtaining one for each car a person owns/restores. Best investment/tool on any vehicle.
Another thing needed is someone able and willing to do the adjustments correctly and thoroughly.
I'd imagine most "corporate franchise" facilities like Americas Tire, Pep Boys, Costco, etc, i.e. "fast-food type shops (filled with teenage beautician/technician staff)" aren't capable, equipped nor interested in such services for older cars.*
For example, whenever I align any post-war American car suspension, I first make sure any and all related components & parts, including tires, etc are in top notch condition/quality**, the weight of the car is as per engineering specifications before making the appointment to local/independent/trusted alignment shop, where they allow me to be involved with the process, if I so choose.
All this is even more important when I prepare and perform 4 wheel alignments on some vintage high performance Italian sports cars, for which the process might take couple of days and rather than flat-rate fee for alignment of said shop, I pay an hourly rate of their choosing for the time on their rack/shop and assistance of a very experienced alignment mechanic, who reads the computerized/laser results & tells me which adjustments to make or shims to install/remove, while I do all the wrenching under the car.
* Like with so many other traditional technology service industries, the ever growing expectation mentality of inexpensive, "fast-food"-type automotive related services introduced/spearheaded by my generation ("Boomers") is just killing the experienced, independent, old-school alignment shops able to work on older vintage cars with nobody willing to pick up the torch, at least around here. 😟
** Just because they're new and Made in C***a, doesn't mean they're any good.
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An age old advise to anyone ever attempting to do or get any mechanical/technical service work done on their (unmodified) antique/classic/vintage car/truck/vehicle :
Buy or borrow a copy of a Repair/Service/Workshop Manual originally published by the vehicle manufacturer and read it or at least the section covering the intended service, BEFORE attempting any work.
You're welcome.
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4 hours ago, Fordy said:
I also lament the same, but I believe there will be people around to keep skill alive - just a lot fewer of them, after all there are still people beating out suits of Armour and how much need is there for that?
Sadly the number of skilled people dwindles with time and if the US is like Australia they don't even offer apprenticeships for some trades any more or if they do its a "wishy-washy version of one. When did a "panel beater" become someone who can only remove the damaged one and replace with new? That is what that trade has become here and finding someone skilled to do a repair is getting harder and harder. Pattern Maker is another one - all computerized as is "Machinist" which only teaches CNC stuff. We may have already gone past the tipping point.
I agree, but we don’t even have to consider anything like machinist, panel beater, etc.
Just think of the ever dwindling number of skilled “mechanics” who could actually rebuild/repair/service variety of individual components they find failing/failed in vehicles compared to “technicians” (rhymes with a “beauticians” ?) commonly known to just replace those same components and from what I hear or have seen, often without even knowing what the components does or how it works.
Yet, with the ever escalating/expanding growth of CAD and other technologies, I can easily see a not too distant future where anyone can have a “classic car” or all the parts to assemble one with a push of a “print”-button … 😢
And as far as I'm aware, apprenticeship along with vocational education programs for skilled hands-on mechanical type trades in the U.S., or at least here in California, went a way of the dodo bird decades ago already, all thanks to my generation, i.e "Boomers".
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Gentlemen, I think you might've miss my point or I failed to convey my concerns correctly.
As an enthusiast/hobbyist I've been restoring and working on vintage cars for about 45 years and past 35+ years it has been my full-time occupation, have done (and still do) most aspects of it myself and experienced with both old-school hands-on casting/fabrication/machining/etc and have also had components made by utilizing modern day, computerized technologies, so I feel I have some comprehension of economics and/or labor intensiveness involved with most, but same time I'm (and have been for long time) saddened by the fact that all this modern technology, combined with economics (think: Made In C***a) is taking over the old-school/-world craftsmanship, which soon will be, if not already, lost by/for younger generations.
For full disclosure, as part of my restoration business, I also reproduce and market variety of vintage car components and parts, although most are for very limited markets.
Some are being made exactly as they were 50, 60, 70+ years ago, while others, due to cost effectiveness, at least partially rely on inclusion of some modern technologies.
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Unless employed for replicating some originally plastic components, like dash or interior trim commonly found in 1960's and later production vehicle, I find this 3D printing of parts idea being almost complete contradiction to historical preservation of antique/classic/vintage vehicles, etc.
Instead of being enamored by more plastic replication (i.e. fakery) to simulate the appearance of authenticity, why not endorse/support craftsman- /entrepreneurship of someone making them in actual materials and/or methods originally available & used in OEM manufacturing ?
No wonder the future of this hobby appears bleak and getting worse, but I guess in today's world everything is expected to be achieved by automation & computers, etc.
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On 10/6/2023 at 6:21 PM, JV Puleo said:
I'm much more put off by the flippers that come here looking for us to price something…
I sort of agree and realize my opinion/views may seem offensive to others, perhaps even some here, but as I’ve pointed out before, I’m amazed whenever I hear/see anyone with no directly vested interest offering “value” assessment on anything, be it a car, a part for one, a pair of used gloves, some real estate or whatever, to some random/unknown individual soliciting advise, regardless of their claimed reason.
I’m not highly educated, but was taught early in my life that “Any tangible object (or an idea) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it at a given moment, nothing more, nothing less” which to my limited understanding equals to that if I’m not in the market (as a buyer, seller or intermediary agent, i.e. broker/dealer/etc) for the subject, my (or anyone else’s) opinion about its value is pretty much pointless/useless/worthless, just like answering to some random persons question “How long is a string ?” or “Hey, I found something that looks like it could be a old/used wheelbarrow handle and would like to know what it’s worth ”.
OTOH, as I’ve probably mentioned before, there are and always will be a lot of things I’ll never understand, including how or why people do something that makes no (common) sense to me.
On 9/20/2023 at 10:23 AM, Robert G. Smits said:What is sooo secret about the make and model of the car in question?
Reasons for not revealing the make, model or photos of a car could be numerous, including protection of privacy (of the owner, restorer, etc) or possibility of the car, especially if rare and/or valuable, becoming “storied” or “tainted” if any less than ideal circumstances related to it or it’s restoration, etc history is shared publicly.
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After numerous (parts & outside service, etc) delays and hiccups (i.e. discoveries of additional/unrelated* issues/problems, etc), coupled with continuing inability to find competent/reliable shop employee/help, plaguing not only in this project, but all others I recently have been working on, I finally got to road test, albeit only briefly (2 x 3-4 miles). the rebuilt transaxle and all its external operating systems components this morning.
Overall, everything appears/feels working quite well, but some fine-tuning adjustments and additional road testing (including some this weekend) still needed to verify success.
*It is interesting how many problems can who-knows-many ill-equipped/-informed mechanics (or hacks ?) create in 85+ years, even in a relatively low mileage, well preserved (show winning ?), 3-owner car.
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10 hours ago, TTR said:
And not counting all the umpteen million “Speedsters” (essentially “Hot Rods” by different name) built in past 100+ years ?
… including many or most that have been constructed from what edinmass so aptly calls “floor sweepings” ?
(Not that I have anything against either approach, as long as it introduces and keeps younger folks interested/involved in the hobby of antique/classic/vintage cars).
When younger, I & many of my lifelong vintage car enthusiast friends used to look down our noses on those who played with cars that didn’t align with our interest, especially inexpensive European or Japanese cars or type of customizing/reconstructions/restorations we appreciated, but as we got older, we eventually realized their enthusiasm and interest is not that different than ours and we hope it’ll last a lifetime, just like ours has.
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18 hours ago, kfle said:
The hagerty article is insurance quotes/policies for original model T's not turning them into Hot Rods.
And not counting all the umpteen million “Speedsters” (essentially “Hot Rods” by different name) built in past 100+ years ?
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1 hour ago, kfle said:
If a Model T is horrible for today's world then why are younger people buying them … ?????
Inexpensive & simple start for a hot rod perhaps ?
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On 9/21/2023 at 12:22 PM, alsancle said:
... literally every day. ... we are just looking for something interesting to talk about.
???
😟
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I've recently had conversations related to this topic with several acquaintances & friends, most who are and have been lifelong (i.e. several decades) participants in the hobby of antique/classic/vintage cars and asked them questions whether they grew up with a parent(s) or grandparent(s) enthusiastically/seriously involved with this hobby and whether or not the children or grandchildren of these same "acquaintances & friends" are seriously interested about the hobby.
Just about all said their parents/grandparent weren't into this nor are their children/grandchildren.
I also asked if any of them can recall others that I may not know of who may have been influenced by their family members, i.e. parents/grandparents/uncles/etc OR if these individuals have younger generation family members who have become involved with this hobby and it seems majority experiences are same as those by I personally know and questioned.
The few examples of younger generation representatives who have became involved with older cars don't seem to be interested in same type of cars as their parents/grandparents/etc. Same with those in my generation who were influenced by older generation family members.
And for what it's worth, it also appears anyone I questioned acknowledged/commented that they don't really care or worry about what happens to their cars or the hobby in general after they're gone, since they're all into this for personal enjoyment/leisure. If their heirs decide to sell everything for peanuts or throw all into dumpster, so be it.
So in conclusion, all this ^^ confirmed what I've always believed that this "generational transition" is nothing new or specific to our hobby.
It's just part of the evolution of our species. Nothing will ever stay the same and in few generations, there won't be many interested or even able to directly relate to the cars we currently hold dear.
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P.S. Close(r) up photo from yesterday’s wilderness adventure.
Sometimes (like yesterday) I wish I had a one or two teens/twenties sports car type vehicles to drive/enjoy them in similar environments and study their chassis (brake/handling/suspension) characteristics.
Maybe in next life.
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Another great 120+ mile Sunday drive, including 20+ miles on rough, single lane camping/fire/forest service roads & couple hours of hiking in the Cleveland National Forest near Tenaja Falls (again).
And in case I haven’t made it clear, I LOVE DRIVING MY PB ROADSTER, even, or perhaps especially, on a rural single lane & very twisty canyon/hillside roads, which due to limited visibility & (rough) road conditions often limits the speed of travel to 5-25 MPH, but fortunately have very little other traffic (very rare here in SoCal, but better for me).
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1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:
GASP!!!! What a surprise. Has anything like that ever happened before? ..........Bob
I find it quite interesting how often* in these kinds of cases so many “regulars” appear to hurry to fall over each other offering extensive advise or opinions, even if/when a first-time poster shares very limited and/or vague details to begin with and may not have any real interest in providing more or coming back, especially if/when seeing advise or opinions he/she may not expect/want to hear/read/see.
Talk about not learning from experience/history.
*Yes, I admittedly been guilty of it too, but (hopefully) not that “often”.
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2 hours ago, alsancle said:
A few years ago (pre-lockdown) we were renting a 20x10 unheated in Park City Utah for 175 a month. Prices have gone way up since then.
Currently here in the Peoples Republic, I can get 20x10 heated for 500 a month. Unheated for less.
A friend recently looked into “storage units” in this area and told me (non-A/C 😉) 10 x 20 units are about $200-$300 a month, but most won’t allow non-drivable/-running vehicles inside any unit and many not even in their outdoor spaces.
2 hours ago, alsancle said:There is blame on both parties in this situation. 60% on the restorer becuase if he is a professional he knows what is going to happen with the limited fund thing. If he is not a professional, then I'll put 60% on the owner.
I agree except whenever something (a blame ?) is to be divided somewhat evenly between two parties, I often say “Well, let’s make it 50/60”. 😜
As a child, I was taught never to agree on commitments or make promises (especially financial) you’re not absolutely sure you’ll be able to meet/keep and as a professional(?) restorer I’ve always tried my best to explain/offer “worst case scenarios” to any potential new client before agreeing to their job.
If they feel uncomfortable/-sure at that point and wish to walk away, I know it’s best for both of us, but many (most ?) restorers/shops tend to lure new customers in with all kinds of fancy BS and many, especially first-time, inexperienced car/project owners often fall for it (one could probably fill several libraries with such unhappy stories).
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17 hours ago, Trulyvintage said:
The OP set the criteria for the restorer.
I agree and after re-reading some of the OPs enlightening comments high lighted below, ...
23 hours ago, MKulina said:It's been a slow process as the restorer works part time and I had limited the monthly spend.
There really wasn't much progress over the last visit, and it had been a year.
... they seem to suggest this endeavor already had a disaster written all over it from the start, set forth by both parties.
Lesson to anyone who reads this and is contemplating a project requiring outside contracting, be it antique vehicle restoration, home building/remodeling, etc:
If you don't have ALL the (realistically) expected/estimated funding (+50% ?) available and put aside before beginning, you probably shouldn't start on it.
And if you do (have the funding), in most cases, you're likely better off buying an already restored vehicle and more so if you buy a really well done and sorted example.
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I don't necessarily agree with most comments about arbitrarily/immediately removing/retrieving the car, especially since none of us know all the details involved with this story.
All we have is one-sided and rather vague description (which may or may not be an accurate or complete representation of reality) by a first time poster.
In my opinion, first and foremost, OP needs to have a direct/frank talk, preferably face-to-face and rather sooner than later, with his/her restorer to discuss, in clear terms, how to proceed.
P.S. Also IMO, the year, make or model of the car in question is completely irrelevant.
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Another perspective (from a restorers point of view):
What to do if/when the client/car owner (or subcontractor) unexpectedly dies, becomes ill or financially unable to sustain the project ?
In 30+ years, I've experienced all of these scenarios and can say none are pleasant experiences nor necessarily have easy or simple outcomes.
Also, having taken over (and finished) several botched or unfinished projects, I can say those aren't necessarily easy nor inexpensive propositions either. In most case, they usually end up costing more ...
P.S. I've always (well, 30+ years) had habit of keeping any and all removed components and parts from each ongoing project on dedicated and clearly marked locations/shelfs in my shop, just in case I was to become incapacitated*, so that almost anyone could come in and easily figure out which components or parts belong to which project...
* A few months ago, while at the gym, I had an accidental fall which lead to an ambulance ride and ER visit and could've easily been a lot worse than the 12 stitches I received to top of my head, not to mention potentially unhappy clients. 🙄
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Are Chopped/modified cars from 70-90 years ago AACA eligible?
in General Discussion
Posted
Having owned (& still do/drive/use) a period correct Hot Rod originally made in to one sometime prior to 1952 (and I do have some documentation/evidence of this), I didn't attempt to reconstruct it to that configuration, but after acquiring it (or what was left of it) in 1989, rebuilt it (during 1990/-91) into what I preferred while being true to its heritage(?) and using/utilizing only components/parts/technology available at "that period" (early-to-mid 1950s).
OTOH, I don't show my (personal) cars nor care about approval or other validations (in form of trinkets/trophies/etc) from others, so having a "classification" for any of them by some event or organization is irrelevant for me.
Sort of like what Groucho said about not wanting to be a member* of a club or organization ... 😉
* I'm actually a member of several (and been for decades), but since most club activities don't really align with my interests, I'm not very "active" in them.