Jim Nelson

Hi Ben, Just for fun, here is my ‘37’. Modified to have a ‘54’ third member. Nicely tucked away and hard to detect. I also have a ‘38’ oprera coupe with Lloyds O/D that is my traveling car.

If that is the crack your talking about, its no problem to fix. Down here there are several excellent welders. I have one who is excellent both with aluminum and steel. I’ve had him do welding on my airplanes when I was into flying. You got to trust him with your life - so he is very good. My back up guy is also a very good machinist. I had him do the mod’s to utilize my ‘54’ third member in my ‘37’ rear. I will find out if Glen will be able to rummage around Lloyds stock of O/D units to find one. Where is this spot. Get me a shot that is a bit back to figure just where this ‘boss’ is located, function of this boss etc.

35Joe, What spares are you looking at? My inventory for mine is: solenoid on the O/D, , constant (brain fade) use one on the fire wall. The odds of a switch failing with the ones Lloyd used is very rare. For trips, all I would take is one of Lloyds older solenoids. Cheaperbthan the New” solenoids. “. That Is JIC part. Mechanically, ? Nothing else unless you wanted to buy one of Lloyds O/D units with out the adapters. JMHO, I think that may be more than needed. If I had a major failure, it migh be easier to send the O/D itself to Glens where he would fix it. JMHO. - - -

Lloyds phone was disconnected for obvious reasons. Glen’s phone number is. 614-571-4908. Glen resonds to this. I’ve talked to him and he will be in Hemings (under Lloyds old advertisment but new phone number). for 6 mo. to see how much action he gets. I’m not sure how much access he will be allowed but it all depends on business. I hope that whoever is controling Lloyd’s inventory is staying with it. My opinion only : if I was in position and enough business came along, I would offer to buy Lloyds inventory and try to be good supplier of Lloyds O/D. I like Lloyds electrical system as I’m a firm beliver in. KISS. I sent him a simplified electrical drawing. Just a second look see, sometimes finds easier ways to do a task. Plus, most of the electrical items are OTC so easy to get. The only item I don’t have a part number and vendor is the micro switch. That will come. Glen (I don’t have his last name) resides in Circleville OH. ( 517 East Mound St., 43113 ). I’ve been to his shop twice. It is well equipted for our needs. PS, Glen is the white haired guy in my pix. I took a lot of pix when I had my O/D installed back in ‘14’.

Here is the guts of him O/D units

Lloyd was very good about taking pix when I visited him.

Have you considered repairing yours? Unless its trashed, we have some very good aluminun welders. Same for remachining to get like new.

I would check with Glen who is now using Lloyds old stock. I’m not sure if he is up on the models and p/n according. If your old case has numbers, I think he might be able the go thru lloyds stock. Lloyd had a small barn full of O/D’s. Lloyd would put the word out and scrounge for them. I think that was as much fun as rebuilding them. Here is a pix of seven adapters to get finished machining. Lloyd is the guy on the far left. Only his shows.

I have two coupes., Special's '37' and '38'. My '38' has Lloyds O/D. My '37' has the third member swap. I used the write up from about 10 years ago. My '37' is a prestine restore. Because I promised the guy I bought it from that I would not put O/D in. That would give you an O/D control under the dash and thus not look like it was a new "37' coupe. So I shopped for a low rear ratio. The '54' dynaflo rear is 3.41 That would work reasonable since the '38' had a 3.11 final with the O/D working. You modify the third member with some machining to move the axel centerline rearward 1/4". Then you cut off about 12" of the '54' torque tube. You then cut off the rear part of the "37' torque tube and marry the drive shaft and torque tube. Easy to say but harder to do. I now have a '37' coupe with a 3.41 rear ratio. Good for 60 /65 mph with rpm's of about 2700. Rpm faster than my '38' but you would have to do some serious looking to see what I did. I now drive it as a normal 3 speed. This was a bit more expensive a change. It cost me about $1000.00 more in expenses over the O/D. Call it $2k for the o/d and $3k to $3500 for the rear end swap. Throw in $500 for incidentals, freight etc. BUT I now have two very nice road cruising cars . The older ladies love the coupes.

BTW, Lloyd just filled the OD's with rear end gear oil. You remove both side mounted plugs on the pax side of the unit. The upper plug has a vent tube attached to it and was hung over the unit to the drivers side. Remove that unit and the lower plug. You must fill thru the upper plug and look for the oil to start coming out the lower plug hole. Then you replace both plugs and the vent. Lloyd said if you did not use that sequence, you did not get lubrication to a point higher than the lower plug and things would break. TIbit, the output shaft bearing came in two versions. Single bearing and dual bearing. You could not tell until you opened it up. My failure caused questions as my failure was the inner bearing. His experience was that the outer shaft bearing was the one that failed, not the inner one. This was back in August '17'.

I have a '38' special with Lloyds BW O/D. I love it. Since Lloyd has passed, the machinist who did the work for Lloyd is still doing the units. Glen has done several already. He is charging $1875 for the modification. You do frt. in / out. Glen changed Lloyd's phone number in Hemings to his phone number. You send him the third member with the torque tube attached and he modifies it and sends it back to you If it needs new pinion bearings, he gets them and replaces them. BTW, The pinion bearings are still available. They are unique Hyatt bearings up until I think the '1940' special when Buick changed the torque tube to a two piece configuration. I do not know the newer bearings size but the part number changed. Bob's Automobilia has them. Olcar Bearings co. has them also. George (at Olcar) will send them to you with the bill. Send him a check. Great guy. I think Lloyd used him as needed. Being a bearing guy (had my own shop for 18 years) I would like to see the bearings in the 40 and later pinion shaft. General Motors made their own bearing to fit what they needed. The back roller bearing had a larger outer race so it would allow you to remove the drive train assembly out the back. See your Service Manual on how to remove it. I changed the solenoid over to the new units available from (brain fade) but now I use Lloyds as a spare when I take trips. Ya, I had one dump and had to drive back in regular 3 'd gear. Boy that was enlightening. So a spare is always in the trunk on trips. I opened one from Lloyds and all there is, is a small coil and contact point that can get yucky and stop working. The new units are the only way. Rebuilding Lloyds O/D units require you to only change the guts for a major rebuild. The case with the flanges stay the same. That part is custom. As Lloyd told me, any place that can get the parts, can rebuild the O/D. Yes, I had a failure. I was doing a pre-trip check before I hit the road. Found a bearing that was slowly trashing. I took it to Lloyds and he rebuilt it right then. Long story - like new now. Lloyds family (?) will be providing parts for some time to come to use up what Lloyd had stashed away, (a bunch), So with Glen continuing the "Lloyd's style" O/D, we are in good shape. I cruise 65 /70, 2350 - 2400 rpm.

Wow, are you trying to run your house on the alternator ?. You can get a back up amp gage, I remember some were 60 A. +/-. I think you can add a shunt in parallel with the original and make it function at least + or - The option to have it read voltage is also a neat option. As we know, later / modern cars used a volt meter instead of an amp meter.

Dwight, If you chose to go to a OD unit, the guy who does it is a bit south of you in Circleville OH. All you would do it jack it up and remove the torque tube with the third member attached. Then, drive it to him. He would take a week to two (depending on the condition of the pinion and carrier bearings) Then you would come and get it and hook it back up. A fairly easy task for someone who is moderately talented as you seen to be. Having a person help to move it around is enough. You would have to remove the axels from the carrier. That would require removing the spacer and 'C' clips in the ring gear assembly. Again, not difficult, just different. Having somebody provide some pix to show you each step would make it easier. I'm working with a fellow who is changing his 4.44 rear over to a 3.90 rear. He would be doing many of the tasks you will do. He is located in SW New Your state. If you choose that way, let me know . You might find there is some body close to you to help you with this.

Jack, I saw a 6 volt alternator that was painted black and on a '35' Buick. I had to do a double take as I thought is was an 6 volt generator. You can buy 6 volt alternators. I would get a 3 wire alt. 10 SI unit. That puts out around 35A at idle and 70 A at full rpm. Those cost around $160 to $175. If you trying to be original for some show, then "Generator" will cost you big bucks ($300 to over $450 ) to look original. Otherwise, these regulator alternators painted black look good. If you need more power, then going to a 12 SI alternator is the path. See my earlier post on this.

When you hook up the output lead from the alternator, you hook it to the wire you send to the amp gage - which then goes to the battery. The wire from the amp gage goes to the battery. Look at your wiring diagram. Did you change the size of the wire from the generator to the regulator? Mine was a #10 gage. That passes a lot of current at 12 volts. If you just ran a new wire from the alternator to the regulator, and used the regulator as a joint between the alternator and the amp gage and to the battery, that works nicely. Then your amp gage works. I put a 90A alternator on my Special for running my A/C. IF you don't want to use that regulator point to run the output from the alternator, I would cut off the wire that goes to the amp gage and attach the output from the alt. to it directly. Solder the joint and heat shrink the joint with a double cover for protection. I removed my regulator as it did nothing in the new system. This way you send power to the amp gate and then on to the battery. The original wiring had a soldered joint from the regulator on to both the horn circuit and on to the battery. So, having a soldered joint that connects two #10 gage wires is normal. If that is confusing, let me know. What year is your Special a '38'. I have both a 37 and a 38 special. Service manuals for both. Your service manual will have a wiring diagram showing what goes where. I like the 12 volt system. Every thing is brighter. Head lights, tail lights and even the dash lights (altho only marginally). It overcomes some of the bad grounds a bit. Still, chase the grounds and clean them up first. Likes ???? we like all the inputs from our members.

I can give you my chart that shows you the speed changes for each of the rear ratio changes from a 4.44, 3.90, 3.60, 3.41, and 3.11. This is based on the 4.44 rear ratio used on many cars. That my be of help.

Well, that is what Lloyd Young did for the many years he made the adapters. I am a fan of his. Borg Warner manifactured almost all the OD uniys that the cars and light trucks ised from the early 30’s up until the early 50’s. I have one of him OD units on my ‘38’ Buick. GeneralMotors did not partake of the advantages of OverDrive like most of the others did. Today you can utilize his design from the guy who did the mechanical work for Lloyd. Lloyd passed back in Jan. But, his reputation continues. So I could use the existing rear end gearing in slow traffic and then when I hot around 38 mph, I could engage the over drive and end up with a final of 3.11. My original is 4.44 and that is good for only 40 / 45 mph. Over Drives change the final by giving you a 30% reduction in engine speeds. You need to figure if the 30% reduction gives you a final that is around 3.11 to 2.90 . Anything below that and you would be shifting up and down frequently. You can change the third member to 3.6 ratio which is a nice compromise. I just changed one to 3.41 and that works nice on flat land and up to modertly hilly ground. Thus, IMHO the OD is a verygood option. Cost? OD system is cheeper than the change of the third member. I can give you costs as such. I’ve done both and they are in my garage right now.

If you are going to go to a 6 volt alternator, get a '3-wire' system. The single wire alternator will produce 7.2 v "at the alternator". Then it begins to loose voltage as the power goes thru all the bad joints and grounds. With the 3 wire system, you need to take the 'sensing' wire to a point behind the dash. Preferable point is around the ignition switch. If you are fortunate enough to have the old 4 wire regulator, it has a wire that is labeled "ignition". That lets you sense voltage further up stream. The one of best point is the clock power wire. Since you are not drawing power, it does not effect the clock. Check your electrical wiring diagram for points accessible behind the dash.

Buick35 , is your car back from the painters? I saw one of your questions about hard starting. Did you move the electric boost pump back next to the fuel outlet on the tank? Having the boost pump there is solves most hard starting. I have boost pumps on both of my BUICKS. I may not drivethem for a week or so. Use a switch under the dash works best. My technique is to turn on the ignition and then turn on the boost pump while I buckle in. Then turn off the ignition and boost pump. Depress the gas pedal 3 or 4 times to get fuel into the intake manifold. Then turn on the ignition and engage the starter while slowly adding throttle. The engine starts right away. Works nice with the Buick auto start (depressing the gas pedal engages the starter).. Also, having the boost pump will let you run the car in an emergency mode. I had my fuel pump die and I used it to get home. I did not want to have a truck pick it up and bring it home.

Your having as much fun as you are allowed. I chose the original rear with the over drive. This was back in 04. I had just gotten into Buicks and figured I would most likely need the OD to travel. My thoughts were that the 248 with OD and A/C probably not work. I started with the 248 and OD. Worked nice here in flat land. I got a 263 that was ready to be rebuilt so I did that. Then, our 36 / 38 Buick club had a get together in the Nashville Tn. area. So, off I went. Approx. 735 miles one way. Flat land untill north Florida. With the 263 and the original 248 radiator, I had issues with runnung temps around 200 to 212*. in the hills. Worked it out and made the trip a sucess. BTW, I found that using a 320 ci engine radiator, like a century’s radiator gave me 50%. more cooling capacity. Solved that issue. Then, on to A/C. I had to add a pusher fan with the A/C system. Its nice to drive here in mid 90,s temps and have the windows up and cool inside. I now had a car that I wanted to use for trips and feel confident that I can getbthere and back like a modern car. Love my Buick coupe. What set up does Ben have ? I’m Not familiar with his.

Your having as much fun as you are allowed. I kept the 4.44 rear and just added the OD for a final ratio of 3.11. I got a 263 engine and that combination works well in our hilly area. That little bit more HP from the 263 lets me have A/C. Florida is a bit tough on us old guys.

Tom, I just found out that the ‘37’ & ‘38’ rear ends have the pinion ball bearings with a SPECIAL smaller SIZE. Later pinion bearings had a standard size for the ID on the ball bearing. The roller bearing IS special size with the OD being larger than standard (so you can pull the whole assembly out the back). The ball bearing has a smaller inside diameter. The standard roller bearing can be modified to work with a sleeve to change the OD to match the housing bore. Unfortunatly, the ball bearing can not be changed. It either is correct or it won’t work. So, when the pinion bearings disapear, we will have to change to later rear ends. So at least I will get new bearings from Geo. ( I hope he has them). Waiting for a call back from Geo.

Pont35cpe / Tom, thanks a bunch. I’ll give him a call tomorrow. I ran a bearing shop for 18 years so I know whats good or not. If you are going to rebuild the pinion shaft bearings, IMHO you need to replace the front double row, max fill shielded bearing with the ‘2 RS ‘ version. Original configuration is - 5206 max fill, ZZ . The best replacement is a ‘5206 max fill, 2RS’. The “2RS” designation means that it has two rubber seals. This replaces the “ZZ” or shielded configuration. Reason - - you need to keep any rear end lubrication from moving forward into the drive shaft area. Which can cause the drive shaft to be unballanced due to oil on the outside of the drive shaft. The ‘2RS’ bearing needs to have the side facing the drive shaft left in place. The side facing the pinion gear needs to have that seal removed to expose the ball bearings to the rear end lub. The seperate seal, forward of the ball bearing will eventually leak. Not so the 2RS sealed bearing. The same goes for the input bearing on your transmission. It needs to be treated the same way. BTW, when I pulled the 3.90 gear set from my car, it had the front ball bearing installed backward. Check with your Service Manual which tell you how and what direction to install the bearing. (Filling slot facing REARWARD and slot at the top ). Had my redone rear end been used for any time, it probably would have gotten noisy from lubricant issues. The ole Service Manual is full of ‘how to do’ issues / correctly. Isn’t this fun - - Love my Buicks. 37 & 38. Coupes.

Isn’t there a bearing supply guy for our old cars. ? I think he was on the East coast someplace

Kyle, Give me your e-mail address and I will send you pix of the rear changes I did. OD and third member swaps.