Chase392

Well today is the day I finally start the thread for my Speedster build. A few months I started a thread that I was looking to buy large displacement engine for a Speedster build, this was after 2 years of on and off again looking for something fairly local to me. I was at the point where I wasn't really getting my hopes up, but luck would have it I was contacted by a forum member and a deal was stuck. A couple months later myself and my father went on 4-day, 2,000+ mile road trip to pick up my new project. Getting home I was presented with my first challenge.... getting an engine off that had to be loaded with a forklift off of the trailer... with no forklift. Took a little time to figure out but I'm happy to report all went smoothly and now I can show off my lovely pile of parts. The engine is a Seagrave Type F6 T-head, I'm not sure of the exact size as it varied over the years, the previous owner said it is 1064 ci. If I'm reading the casting number correctly is was made in 1929. My transaxle is from an American LaFrance front drive tractor. I got a chance to examine its remains and the drive setup was quite curious. I got 2 frames although one is just bare side rails. Both are supposed to be White 1.5 ton trucks, the one standing up behind the other parts is definitely a White as the logo is cast into the levers for the brakes. The complete frame is different than the stripped rails, it is squared off at the rear vs. the curved dumb irons on the loose rails. I will likely be using the complete frame for this build and saving the side rails for a rainy day ( and maybe an aero engine ). I'm not sure what the front axle or driven axle are from but they are wide enough to accommodate and engine this large. For the last year or so I've been gathering photos of period cars that like for inspiration, I'm really drawn to the early race cars and speed record cars. I've gathered pics of cars ranging from the ALCO Black Beast to the Fiat Mephistopheles and everything in between. Although build a land speed-esque car with T-head power my not be historically accurate, it seems at least from my limited research that the line of technological evolution was anything but straight at the time. Questions, suggestions and critiques are welcome. I am going to try to build this car as period correct as I possibly can on normal person's budget.

That was me This engine makes my 1000 ci T-head look tiny.... but I do have an extra frame.....

I've attached a couple of close up pics of the mounts. The pivoting front mount moves quite a bit more than you might think... easily 3-4 inches of travel. The previous owner mention trying to mount it on individual legs, and that front engine mounts movement caused the engine to want to roll over.

I believe I have a White frame that it is identical to the one in the above listed chassis. Although mine is not for sale, I'd be happy to measure mine if you think the one listed above might work for your body. I don't have springs or axles under it so unfortunately I can't give you the wheelbase, but the frame itself is just under 16 feet long.

Yes, that is the mount that has the trunnion that allows it to pivot. Here is a close pic of the mount ends.

As requested earlier in the thread, here is a pic of the trailer in my garage. Not how I wanted to show my new project to the world... but here she is. As I said before, for a home garage in city limits I've got decent space... what I lack is headroom. Since my garage is not sheetrocked yet I can tuck the beam up inside the ceiling and block the walls solid underneath for support. My father and I did some calculations and beam that fits the 2-ton trolley I bought can support a 5-ton single point load across the 16 foot span. I reset the boom on my engine hoist tonight for 1-ton capacity (its a 2-ton unit) and it still lifts plenty high to lift the engine along with the 5 ft long piece of 6" I-beam I purchased to lift the engine from the mounts with heavy duty chains (2,000 lb rated) I can lift my axles and frames with my hoist too but I don't want them taking up floor space until I can get the trailer out of there... thank goodness I borrowed it from a friend instead of renting I don't think levering the engine up will work, as you can see the engine mounts are not designed to sit on top of the frame... they fit inside the frame and lack a nice flat pad for levering against. In addition the front mount is mounted on a trunnion to prevent frame flex from cracking the crankcase... so it is not very stable.

I think pretty much anything I can do on the trailer is going to require me to lift it up.... The engine is so top heavy I don't want to even attempt to roll it down ramps, even the speed was limited with a winch. It also occurred to me this afternoon that my ceiling isn't tall enough for a forklift to lift the engine...

I wanted to take the time to thank all of you that have replied, While I weigh my options and do more research, I thought I'd post a decent pic of the crack. Note the engine isn't really resting on the block of wood below the oil pan, I tapped that in there after the crack appeared in the pan in frantic attempt to limit the damage. Note the the crack is pointing towards the fitting... I think it was a combination of an antique casting, and over-tightened fitting (probably 80 years ago) and the terrible condition of the highways I had to drive on that did the pan in.... expensive lesson learned.

Hey Larry, I certainly wouldn't mind a vistor, but I think the Detroit to Houston drive will be a little rough

I've always been a parts hoarder.... It came from my early addiction to muscle car era Mopars.... at the time I started collecting (when I was a teenager) nothing was reproduced for the cars. I found myself stashing rare parts I'd snagged not only for the current project... but for future projects. When my tastes changed and I the Mopars got sold.... all the parts when with them, and it was very nice to have a clean garage for the first time ever... Of course, now I'm building a Speedster and the process is starting all over again I don't think I'll feel relieved until I have a decent amount of spares for my Seagrave T-head, which will probably be never with this engine....

I'm pretty sure I can still get the engine off of the trailer with the engine hoist boom in the shortest position giving me 2-tons of capacity vs. 1/2 ton at the end. Unfortunately my garage (although a 4-car) does not have room for a lift, and buying one of the large gantry lifts from Harbor Freight would leave me trying to find a place for it the rest of the time.... not too mention a $1000 is pricey for limited use. Dismantling it in place is something I don't want to do at this time.... although the pistons are not stuck... the valves are. I'm really not ready to start pulling it apart just yet. I do plan on building a custom cart for the engine once I can get all of the parts off of the trailer, as well a custom giant engine stand (inspired by the one for the Fiat S76 engine). As far as the crack in the oil pan... that is for another thread down the road. I know enough not to even attempt repairing it myself, nor will I entrust it to some random local "aluminum welder". I need to get the engine off the trailer to see how bad it really is. The crack is in the curved forward portion of the sump, if anybody is familiar with the "Seagrave Speedster" build on the H.A.M.B. , my oil pan is cracked in the exact some spot as the old welded repair on his oil pan.

Hey guys, I've a got a little issue that I need some guidance with... I recently purchased a Seagrave F6 engine for a speedster build. I've got the engine home but getting it off the trailer is proving to be a challenge. All my previous projects have been more modern and I've always been able to move the engines around with a standard engine hoist. My issue is that my monster T-head is over 5 feet long and probably 1500 lbs, and although my hoist has the capacity to lift it.... the engine itself is too large to set down between the legs of the hoist. My thoughts were to use a 4000 lb chain hoist and use trolley on a beam to move the engine.... and here is where my plan is hitting a snag. I have to run a beam across a 16 foot span in my garage, supported at the ends only.... and I don't think anything made of wood will cut it. I think I'm stuck with the difficult (and likely pricey) prospect of having a 16 foot steel I-beam delivered to my house... and figuring out how to man-handle it into place. Has anybody gone down this road? Moving this engine around makes me nervous.... because although it is heavy it is also somewhat fragile... the crankcase and oil pan are Lynite castings and the engine was designed to "hang" on its mounts... the case and oil pan probably cannot bear the weight of the whole engine. The oil pan is already cracked and don't want to put more strain on it. The engine is currently sitting on a large wooden skid that supports it on the ends below the engine bearers. I could set the engine and skid down on two large blocks of wood that would allow me to pull the engine hoist out and then remove the block from each end one at a time... but I fear this will put more strain the crankcase.... Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Hello Larry, I haven't forgotten about calling you, I will definitely call you to get the contact info on your aluminum guy. My better half kept me busy this weekend on other projects. To be honest, I still don't know the full extent of the crack as the engine is still on the trailer..... I'm building chain hoist/ trolley system in my garage so I can move this gigantic T-head around. My engine hoist can pick it up... but then I wouldn't be able to set it down.... The first time my father saw the engine, he jokingly said "You're gonna need bigger tools..." How right he was

Unfortunately the crack is on a curved section of the sump...

I'll take if still available. PM inbound.

Today I had a chance to do a little poking around on my engine, The crankcase (and I'm guessing the oil pan too) is a Lynite casting.... which I had never heard of. So did an internet search to learn a little bit about it... now I'm sure I need find an expert. I'm sure I can send it to the shop that fixed the engine for the Marmon Wasp... and hope the repair doesn't cost as much as my whole project. Does anybody have experience with this company? http://castmetalwelding.com/Automotive_Engine.html I've been surfing the web trying to places that specialize in old aluminum welding. I've found places that do work on Harley and Indian engines... I'm not sure if they'd want to take on a 4.5 ft Seagrave oil pan.....

Seagrave also used a 1000+ ci T-head in their fire trucks. The first time you see one in person it will leave you speechless :)

I'm in Houston... but to get it fixed properly... I have no issues building a crate to hold this 4 plus foot long monster of an oil pan and shipping it. Of course I have to build a gigantic engine stand first before I can get the pan off....

Hey guys, I have an antique engine (20's) that has a cast aluminum oil pan that has a small crack in it, the engine is rare enough a replacement would be difficult, if not impossible to locate. Are there any reputable companies out there that could repair it? I know enough about early aluminum alloys and castings to not even attempt to repair it myself or find a local guy that "welds aluminum". Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the info and offers, guys. I found my 1000 ci Speedster, just got it back home today. I'll be starting a new thread in the near future

Hence the reason I told you guys where I'm at All kidding aside... I've been pouring over the web tonight... downloading the various forms on my State's DMV website.... and I'm totally confused. Texas allows vehicles to be registered as antiques, street rods, customs, rebuilds, etc. and at least to me... not being trained in the dark art of BS otherwise known as "legalese"... they seem to blur quite a bit. I'd like to title a vehicle as an antique.... and possibly find an original Year of Manufacture Texas plate to use... or use current "antique" plates. Texas state a "Street Rod" is something built before 1948 or built after 1948 resemble something pre-48. This seems to be geared more towards the fiberglass roadster crowd. Customs... I believe this is for the post 48 crowd. Rebuilds.... as I understand it... must have all the equipment required of the vehicle the year they are re-assembled. So this category is out.... I can imagine a brass era speedster with windshield wipers and airbags. The recurring theme I see in all of these is the requirement for identification numbers on 3 major components, the engine, the frame and the body. The engine number is likely not an issue.... but how many frames from the 'teens have serial numbers? I doubt very many, if any. And the body? What if I want to build the body???? The last item that confuses me is that it seems the car must be assembled and running/driving before I can apply for a title? You can title a non-running project car in this state (say a 60's era car) with no difficulty.... which allows you to get insurance on said project. I'd hate to have a pricey pile of rare parts in my garage with no insurance because it is not assembled.

Hey guys, This may belong in the legislation forum, but I thought it better to ask the Speedster gurus... how does one go about obtaining a title for Speedster build? More often than not, they are a collection of parts from various makes from an era when little thought was given to titles and serial numbers. I live in Texas, and I have gone the State DMW website but found it rather confusing. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hey guys, I need some advice, I'm selling two projects to finance a new one. Much to my surprise most of the interest I am getting is from overseas. I've been in the car hobby long enough to be wary of scams but several people have contacted me truly seem legit... much more so than the weirdos on Craiglist. How should I except payment? This is what has me the most worried... I read a story online about a bank transfer being reversed months after the car was sold and shipped? What should be expected on my end when dealing with a shipper? Should they just show and load the car? Paperwork? Any advise is much appreciated. Thanks

I'll take them if still available. PM inbound.

For Sale: 1971 Plymouth Satellite (Road Runner clone project)Original 318 auto on column car, was B5 Blue with white interior and canopy vinyl top. I had plans of building RR clone to enjoy, but my interests have changed. Original engine and trans are gone. TX title.Fenders are rough but repairable, decent flat hood with repop Airgrabber bubble and door. One small spot of rust on pass door, drivers' door needs bodywork. Has rust in the lower qtrs and trunk extns. Drivers' front floorpan has a few small holes, pass side is mint, rear floor pans have damage from dual exhaust install, underseat pan is damaged but I have a replacement. A-pillars and roof skin are bad from vinyl top, I have replacement A-pillars. Trunk floor is rust free, frame rails are rust free but the rear rails will need repair due to a homemade trailer hitch. Package tray is hacked for bigger speakers but I have a replacement.New AMD 4-speed tunnel and dual exhaust rear valance. I have an A/C firewall section if someone wishes to convert it to A/C.I parted out a '71 Charger 500 to option out this car so a huge amount of spare parts are included:Extra K-member and control arms2 floor shift steering columnsBucket seatsA/C Rallye Dash (complete assembly)A/C boxPower brake booster and linkageI have two complete sets of glass minus the windshields (tinted and clear)Two back seatsRear defrostExtra set of interior trim panelsReally too many spares to list.I have two standard bore 383 short blocks that will go with the car.Correct 8 3/4" rear end minus the center section.Original Road Runner grille emblem and Beep Beep horn.Car is located just south of Houston, Tx.$4,000 OBO