C Carl

Please excuse my postponing painful thumb tapping advice here and now. I have got my impressive 1924 Cadillac touring going again. It slept for a long time while I was busy dying. Surprised the cardiologist by surviving longer than expected . Given a reprieve, I finished getting it going a few days ago. Therefore : off for a drive ! P.M. sent. - C Carl

K' : therefore use a non-synthetic for "break-in" . With clearances on the tight end of the spec spectrum , I suspect ultimately you will be using a 10w/30 or 10w/40 synthetic. I am eagerly heading over to the '24 Cad. Hope to drive it today. Been a while. Upon returning I shall cite references for the above. - Carl

Keizer 31 , what an honor to be able to present an offering to your prolific self. The bottom line here is that there are several factors that mitigate against a one size fits all solution. Please read my grovellings in trivial minutiae posted under " Cleaning/flush of a 1930 Nash engine" under "Technical" . Not all engines would be candidates for such procedures. What is the mileage ? Where within spec range do your clearances lie ? Do you know the oil history of your engine ? If so for how long ? What type of filtration do you have ? Do you want to upgrade your filtration capabilities? Would such an upgrade be within budget ? But you have dropped your pan and cleaned it at least once. How many miles ago ? Due again ? And did you examine and plastigage a couple rod bearings and a main ? If at all questionable , did you check the rest ? Now , I have successfully converted 500 cu. in. Cadillacs , and 460 fords to multi grade synthetic with over 100,000 miles on them . Synthetic oil is the most detergent oil. So detergent that it can ultimately break down carbon seals at the rings of a high mileage tired old mill. As far as other seals , if naught holds your engine together but sludge and mung , probably drive them lightly and don't awaken whatever dogs. Ideally you will be able to use multi grade synthetic successfully in your pre-war cars. Synthetic may be be thought of as the first , lower number straight grade oil , with viscosity index ( V.I ) improvers added. STP is a V.I. improver. Maybe it changes a 20w/50 to a 25w/70 for example , depending on amount used. Keizer 31 , I hope this humble offering is of some use to you. It is merely an incomplete guideline. From the well deserved accolades other grateful readers sent you after you reached 20,000 accurate postings , I know I am but one of many who enjoy and await your every word. TO YOU AND ALL FOLK WHO USE OIL , PLEASE FIND AND READ RICHARD WIDMAN'S DEFINITIVE WORK ON OIL SELECTION. There are links to it under various headings. I came across it in the "Our Restorations" section. He is a real genius of a petroleum rep. who has distilled many tech articles into a 33 page must read work. N.B. : my investigations into proper filter elements advances. I have already ordered a 25 micron screen for my System 1 K&N. Other info hopefully by weekend. The '24 Cadillac did start smoothly today , but there is an oil pressure issue. The '27 Cadillac is advancing towards a hoped for debut at the Portland CCCA Grand Classic next month. Old man Carl goes to bed now.

Thanks. Some from my earliest memory. Wrapped up in a blanket , comfy and warm in the back seat of dads '33 Buick. In spite of the cold , pre global warming Winter in Chicago , that classy , not too old used car , took us out to visit grandma. Now , what lucky little kid wouldn't love that almost magical black box on wheels ? You just got in it in one place , and got out of it in another ! Brake vacuum booster went out , and next car was a '39 Pontiac. Took is up to Door county , Wisconsin Summers for camping. One day he showed up in a new '50 Willys Jeep station wagon. Off to Vermont we went by way of the Manitowoc - Luddington ferry. A very small ferry carried us to a month camping on Sanibel Island , Florida in '52. Long trip through Mexico just after the 8 to 12 devaluation of the Peso in '54. Next year we moved cross country to Seattle by way of floating in Great Salt Lake , and up the coast from 'Frisco. I learned to drive in his '55 Chev . So you see how old car images fill my mind. I have been obsessed with old cars all my life. I suspect many of you guys and gals similarly afflicted never whined " when are we getting there? " . I remember quite clearly being disappointed when we got to our long distance destinations. For a little while , the adventure component was put on hold. But heaters. Yeah , I don't remember ever being cold in the old days. Heaters. Had 'em. But I sure remember suffering the heat of Summer in those pre A/C cars. - Carl

P.M. sent. - Carl

My '27 Cadillac sedan uses a long shallow funnel just behind the fan. It feeds fresh air through a large flex pipe to a big heat exchanger sitting ahead of the left side muffler. Warmed , it then goes to duct in the rear floor. Imagine momma and the kiddies with the lap robe holding the heat around their legs on warm up. Poppa or chauffeur stoicly enduring winter in overcoat , Stetson, and gloves untill enough heat built up. Very cozy. The '20s still roared , Gatsby had been written , alcohol consumption had been legislated into the biggest thrill in town , but the Depression was yet to come. - Carl

Ditto. ? - Carl

Uh , yeah , I think in the case of Bob's it was not much more than $150 or so. Can't exactly remember. I don't know if that was expensive. I would sure do it again. Also , I ought to have read the header. 1930 . Yeah , it says 1930 Nash. Wake up , Carl ! By the way , '31 , what body style is (are) your Cadillac(s) ? I have a fellow standing in need of a good '30 5 Pass Sedan. Haven't seen one since Marty sold his Town Sedan (very attractive body style in great original shape) , over a year ago. Seems that body style was carried over another year. Maybe other body styles too. I wonder if he could widen his search to include '31. Any leads ? Thanks - Carl

Ditto on thanks , '31 Caddy. Yeah , I am 98% certain Bob's filters are equipped with NAPA 1320s. I'll open it up to confirm. These repros look just like the OEM , decal and all. If you know his inventory and catalog , you will be very pleased. Bob's Automobilia is in California between Atascadero and Paso Robles. Al , give them a call . 805-434-2963. Their filter looks just like yours , inlet and outlet on same end , and of course can be used horizontally as your car , or vertically as on my '27 Cadillac. Lots of guys use them when they find out about them. Hey , what is the exact year of your " new" toy ? - Carl

Hey , Rusty : I just noticed : I have just about 1% of the postings you have ! Wow ! You do very fine work here , and it implies a real good job with the wrench too. Can you still do it ? I have had to call in help here for what should be a simple job on the '24 Cad. Doc says the x-rays show serious bone on bone in my left shoulder. Hey , so be it . There's lot of other things I can't do anymore. In that , I am far from alone. Hope you fellow oldsters are relatively pain free. I am until I try to do something . NOW it is bedtime. - Carl

Quite true . I stand corrected. Right. Just because it is in bypass position , doesn't make it filter down to one micron. It indeed will filter only as per spec same as in full flow capacity. Thank you. It will still work better than the original filter which had replacement recommended at 10,000 miles. You cut one of them open and it is like diapers stuffed in it. I better check the specs and see if there is one particular brand which stands out. Of course the Frantz could use the existing porting on the Nash. Now the ideal would be both full flow and bypass together. Cummins ( and maybe others ) offered some very comprehensive warranty protection on their new engines if so equipped. This included extended oil change frequency if their synthetic was used. I used to own 2 out of the 5 "Holly's Follies ". Guess you could call them "antiques" , as they were built in '69. On air , twin screw Gillig 743D chassis , Cummins NHH ( like a NTT , but horizontal - the beloved "pancake 262"). Fuller RTO-915. Gave me a slight curiosity about diesels. Seem to remember something about big stationary industrial deisels using both full flow and bypass. If memory serves , seems periodic oil analysis would be done , and if all was well , oil just wasn't changed. Ever. Is my memory correct ? Past bedtime. Tired. Good night , and Good morning. - Carl

Looks like you're in luck. The horizontal can fwd of the dist. sure looks like a bypass filter. Bob's Automobilia makes repros of these. Inside they conceal a modern spin on/off filter. They work way better than the original. Now look , I think we all have used gasoline as a solvent to one degree or another. We are still here to tell you , and might even have to do it carefully in small applications in the future . But , seriously , don't use it in large scale projects. Fire extinguishers handy. Depending on your level of fanaticism , a full flow filter can also be added with a greater or lesser degree of difficulty. Machine work to fit one on an engine with an external oil pump is relatively simple. Other candidates might have to await an opportunity during major engine work. Clean the pan first thing. On an ancient engine laid up for many years on old oil , most guys do a bearing check while the pan is off. First pull a couple of rod caps and a main cap. Check condition and clearance. Old oil can be acidic because of moisture as combustion byproduct. Over a long time , the acid can be an electrolyte. Galvanic erosion can then take place between the dissimilar metals being lubricated. If the sample bearings show only minor pitting or wear , and are within spec , zip it back up. New filter , detergent oil , as mentioned above , and you are on your way. Mucking around with pipe cleaners may awaken the dogs you might want to stir only gradually. Your engine will slowly clean itself. Monitor your oil frequently. Change when it starts to go black. You may change the filter a couple hundred miles on , or much earlier at first sign of black oil. The bypas filter will be cleaning down to around one micron. ( That is small. Less than bearing clearance. ) Cleanable screen type full flow filters may go down to ten microns. But some initial mung cleaning may load 'em up soon. With 22k on the mill , you are probably on solid ground with the change recommendations here. I have cleaned up old engines this way with a lot more mileage. After a couple thousand miles , or a season or two use , whichever comes first , drop and clean pan and pickup again. You may have to this yet again , until the pan drippings are sludge free. I am one of those synthetic oil and grease freaks. The military and I have been using it for decades. Go down to your rural feed store , and ask the guys what kind of luck they have had with the longevity of their agricultural machinery after switching to synthetic grease. By tuning your oil pressure relief valve , and monitoring warm up and running oil pressure , your engine may tell you exactly what multi-viscosity oil it enjoys most. Alsfarms , I am sure I speak for everyone in wishing you best of luck with your big , impressive Nash. I hope we all live long enough to see it progress as you lovingly awaken it. What a magnificent find ! Please keep us in the loop ! - Carl

Larry , here is at least a bump for you. No , the subject metal is pot metal. It is an amalgam of varrying composition. The effects of long term internal galvanic erosion lead to its ultimate self destruction. I have a potential source for you , as I was able to find a distributor for my '27 Cadillac. I see you have posted your phone no. , and will give you a call. Ron Henry in Washington State is laboriously dealing with the large inventory left behind after Morris Tandu's transition. Will need good pics at least. - Carl

Whew ! Relief ! No real loss if it had evaporated. I make a lot of noise . Yeah , real poor signal to noise ratio. Granted. But your cup : here goes Dr. Diagnosis , if he may be so bold. The Good Doc sees you as a man of exacting standards. He guesses that level of standards is on the order of aerospace stringency. A loose button ? A mere 10 footer ? You hold the bar high. The Doc finds this to be a laudable characteristic, if you will permit him a value judgment. ( Again , he assumes such familiarity with some trepidation , but please indulge him ). Now the Doc also assumes that a lot of the attraction to the old original car for the here assembled , is precisely that , with all the warts , etc , it adds up to a certain charm. A complete history. A patina . A smell . Memories of youth. Dads car. Or Mr. White's car in the garage down the block 60 or 70 years ago. And so on. Some cars which are deteriorated relics are restoration candidates. Please , Dear Envoy , please not this grand survivor. This car is far too nice to restore. Once done , the soul and history will be gone forever. So few carry an unbroken preservation such as this one. Once done , it will just be another amateur restoration. Having now been admonished , the restorer will remain unforgiven. Harsh words from Doc , perhaps , but let's hear it from the congregation. No , not down the line . Not down the line , or ever please. You may not yet have heard , " They are only original once" . Docs guess is that subjecting this gem to an amateur restoration would erode its value. What say you revered Matt ? Don't get Doc wrong . He absolutely loves and goes bug nuts over proper restorations. He marvels at what high order craftsmen can accomplish as they ply their art , taking a real run down wreck , and creating the most beautiful , and well running miracle ( yes miracle to his incapable eyes and hands ) on the field , road , or track. You , Envoy , shoot for the stars. You have a predilection for perfection . At this point in your hobby timeline , dear brother in avocation , Doc agrees with Mark , Matt , Mike and the other guys , THE BU' IS FOR YOU ! Wow ! The Doc laid it on the line , didn't he ? I must say that I agree with him 100%. I am also confident that over the long haul ( again assuming a real , proper restoration ), the Buick will cost you less , and you will be able to drive it more. Envoy , I think it may be possible to get in the Buick and drive it slowly home . What a way to see the U.S.A. going leisurely past your windows. And these mid '20s to early '30s cars are to be savored slowly for a number of reasons. Not now , but I would like to make sure your expectations of these transitional cars are realistic. By the late '30s , it was a very different , much more capable , comfortable and safer automobile. Most of us guys and gals have a lot of miles in each type. I hope this offering helps you in some way , and posts . I suspect my second most critical reality checker agrees with tired , fading , beat up , old - Carl

So , Envoy , are you in Texas , but both of the cars are far from you ? Somehow that Swiss Cheese that passes for my brain thought that the cars were local to you . Makes a difference. A big difference. If so , go see them if you can. If not find a highly capable , experienced surrogate. Many of us have done just that. I got one of my very enjoyable , complicated Mercedes Benz that way , and it is sweet. Weather is good , but it sounds like you are busy and the adventure of driving one home is probably not in the cards. By the way , an original 10 footer needs no apology in any camp , and an easily replaceable upholstery button is not a deal breaker. Is your heart and head coalescing around one of these cars yet ? I actually feel the thrill of your hunt . As I say , if I could have just one , I've picked it . But based on the still scant info , I'll refrain , since I am not you. I'm just - Carl

No , sadly among the temporarily ( I hope to pull it out with auto save ) , lost info was a careful insight into bearing loads under different compression ratios with different octane gasoline , during both compression and power stroke. I had hoped to open up another possibility of potential value added in restored O.H.V. cars done right. But I do think I briefly alluded to it without elaboration while ranting. In my postings this morning , I readily admit that the ratio of constructive info to rant ( I find it real easy to rant ) is somewhat negatively biased , but good news : I have come back from a long , peaceful Memorial Day retreat. Enjoyed a fine breeze which kept Old Glory flapping impressively , as it flew by day in a remote area of Central Washington. Came back to get the '24 Cad up and running , and found that accumulated injurys to my left shoulder makes this almost almost impossible. Now partially laid up , and with a number of resultant medical appointments , I have time to diddle this infernal device occasionally. Be of good cheer , trusty ( though sometimes endearingly crusty ) valued and esteemed cyber friend , Rusty , for soon comes a continuation of our octane/kerosene discussion in another thread. It will contain info on turbine and reciprocating engines. Although both you and I , along with many contributors here already understand hexane , heptane , octane , B.M.E.P. , A.D.I. , E.P.R. , N-1 , N-2 , bypass ratios , P.R.T.s ( in R3350s ) , not everyone does. This is all in hopes that this old dog can learn a new trick in running his 4.5-4.7:1 compression cars on alternate fuels , with the attendant benefit of better pulling grades on the long drives I enjoy out West here. ( Maybe I would be better off just going to BB 1 carburation ). Always eager to glean wisdom from you gents who have been doing this day in and day out , as I have only done sporadically. Also some of you guys are also fortunate to be even older than I am. But , man and boy , have I ever had some unusual experiences. Put my Blazer on its side at 15,000' in the Peruvian Andes. ( I used to climb mountains in South America with British and U.S. embassy personnel) . That necessitated a 13 man/day pick and shovel winching operation ! You bet I can flock up , amigo. Yeah , you just bet I can. Very young and very strong then , old guys. You and I would drop everything to be able to go back and do it again , eh ? Did I ever tell you about the time ............................. Oops , wish I could sit down and have my allotted 1/2 lite beer occasionally ( poor health) , with each of you . Particularly guys like yourself , Dandy , Bernie , Dave C. , and other great guys who not only share their valuable expertise , but also allow familiarity through humor and exposition of their personalities. You are a treasure , and among the perhaps the 1/2 dozen or so posters who I eagerly await , and who's every posting I gratefully read. And , yup , I did indeed get a good belly laugh at myself from the above quote ! Thanks , Rusty , I hope to get back to you soon with octane insights. Thanks , all you wonderful guys and gals . I had a good nap , a good laugh , and don't seem to need pain pills today. - Carl

Onwards : Envoy , I began this particular episode by quoting contributor Padgett. You notice he generously posts with great frequency and wisdom. This also mitigates towards my suggestion to buy both of these cars if they fit into the desireable end of the spectrum. This assumes that pricing fits the cars , and your checkbook. Also that the cars fit your garage/shop. ( Get a bigger one ! ). You may have been reading postings from these gentlemen for some time before becoming active. I , and many have done the same. You may realize the kind , selfless , helpful offerings from a group of old car folk who will be here for you as long as they are alive and able. You are far from alone , as you obviously realize. I have only had the pleasure of meeting one of these generous , knowledgable , accurate , energetic gents. I was invited to drop in with my '27 Cadillac sedan during a 400 mile shakedown up and down the Columbia River. He exemplifies the very best of the honest , caring fellow hobbyists, and has both the finest original and restored cars. I have also had my knowledge enhanced by another contributor who also often expertly posts on the Reo forum . All these guys. Wish I could meet them all. Other guys broker wonderful cars , and present them accurately , with happy results for buyer and seller. Passing on knowledge from their vast experience with a greater variety of cars than the average guy could ever own , is a very valuable resource. Other guys work on these cars professionally , and give freely of their accumulated experiences. I feel very privileged to submit my humble offerings among theirs. Perhaps they would agree with me , and help to convince you to reap the full fruit of your searching , take a deep breath , say "it's only money" or "so many cars , so little time" and leave neither of these cars behind ! - The very best of everything to you , Envoy , and to all who participate here. I/we shall give you some very important advice about driving your pre-war car at a later date. The question of " how fast will it go ? " , or ,"how fast can I drive it ?" , is a subject ventilated from time to time. Stepping into a slower time in history has some wonderful rewards. Take it slow and easy with the old cars. I am now exhausted , so I think I will slowly go back to bed. - Carl

All right. Now as brief an offering as possible on unrestored, original cars. If the car has received regular and frequent use and maintainance by the book , plus , it is a rare and valuable find. If it has gone through long periods of dormancy, a certain sequence of resurrection must be performed. Sounds like your subject car may well fit into the first category. Trust ? Maybe. But verify ? You must. I was just getting into the procedure of prepping an old original car for touring service when this disgusting , disrespectful , inadequate , poorly engineered device inflicted yet another insufferable insult to my existence. This is the second one I have had to endure , the first had some software problem. This one is better , but still does not perform its intended capabilities. I wish I had stayed with android , and really must distance myself from yahoo , and snuggle up to google. Can't risk loosing any more of my now diluted content , so off this goes. - Carl

Briefly : the flip side of a proper thorough restoration is the horror of a beautiful show car , with just external cosmetic attention given to the mechanicals. Recently saw a '34 Packard phaeton of that variety. Didn't even change the diff or trans lubes ! Good bye"bearings. Beautiful engine would have served a better purpose as an anchor. Owner paid top dollar here in Washington State. Make sure to research the mechanical condition. I had also given a good explanation of the opportunity to raise the compression ratio on an O.H.V. Engine. There are some misconceptions surrounding this practice that I dealt with. Suffice it to say at this point , that is a valuable mod to the internals. O.K. , let's get this out while I still can. - Carl

HELP ! HELP ! HELP ! I just wasted a couple,hours composing a continuation of my outline on restored and un-restored cars , and points to consider for purchase. Got a telephone breaker , and got derailed to Facebook (ugh) when I tried to resume. Don't think auto save is in effect , and I have a policy of never regenerating my long , erudite , well proofed and factually sound compositions. Like most of us old folks , I draw from a long and varied background. My pilot and flight engineer training give additional insights. Long distance driving in well equipped cars including expedition prepared 4 WD high altitude ( 16,000' at times ) experience in the Andes on various protracted occasions , helps too. Not to mention having owned and maintained many cars from the '20s , '30s and '40s , like almost all old folk have. I was beat and went to bed immediately upon getting home yesterday. Insomnia gave me an opportunity to continue my contribution. Now lost. I am very upset. So I will send this rant now, and try to briefly pass on what I was working on in very small postings. It is info that most of us know anyway , just presented at a time when some reminder seemed appropriate. Enough. I will send this now before it , by way of apology, disappears too. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. - Carl

I , like you , particularly love such cars. Of course I also love open cars. So I have 1927 sedan and 1924 touring Cadillacs. One of your candidate cars absolutely steals my heart away. But I am not you , so I'll refrain with respect. If I were YOU in MY shoes (if that makes any sense) , I would buy both ! In YOUR shoes , time , money , storage, and , if those shoes be of the dancing variety , who else may call the tunes may make this option totally out of the question. It is a hobby , and I say blow as much dough as you can on it. (I have a rather high performance V12 car which costs me about $5/mile to operate , and I love it). After living with them , the value of what you will learn , and the fun you will have , and the friends you make , far more than compensates for the relatively small loss you will take upon selling one. If you are lucky , you may find it difficult to part with either. Hey , if they are close to you and the price is right in this buyers market , consider it. There are many cars I should have bought when presented with the opportunity. It is very hard for me to part with a car , and like most of us , wish............ Oh , wish , wish , wish. You want to play the end game with as few regrets as possible. Get 'em both. Play it right , and you needn't regret it. - Carl