wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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I feel it should be added, that although Jack devoted a great deal of his energies to collecting and restoring Lincolns of the '20s and '30s, he was also a very well rounded collector. The first Stutz I ever saw up close was his, as were a couple of Locomobiles, a Pope Hartford, a Diana, a Simplex (he talked about the beautiful sound of those "chain drives singing" while on tour, "nothing else quite like it!"), and at least three Duesenbergs that I saw up close and even heard running.
I was visiting him and his collection about 40 years ago. He had recently sold his Duesenberg for a really good offer, then bought a dual cowl phaeton ('33 If I recall correctly). The phone rang, he answered, I never asked who it was But Jack was telling the other fellow on the phone about how he just couldn't turn down that offer for his car. Then he thought "But Jack Passey just can't not have a DUESENBERG! So of course I just had to go out and buy another one!" There were many times I heard him refer to himself that way, I found it quite charming.
He will be missed. By many people, and for a long time.
Wayne Sheldon
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Sadly, not unexpected. I was fortunate to have known Jack nearly my whole life. My dad had gone to college with Jack's brother and Jack back in the late '40s. They stayed friends for many years, and when I began seriously showing an interest in antique automobiles at about the age of 14 (nearly 50 years ago!), Jacks collection was the first place we went.
Jack had such a welcoming and easy-going manner, it was always nice to visit with him. Many, MANY, people considered him to be close and personal friends of theirs, and rightfully so. I was always glad to be among them.
Peace be with you Jack. You were one of the best of the best.
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It always saddens me to hear of these things. In this case, I am very pleased that the two occupants of the Lincoln were able to get out and appear to be mostly okay.
Any car can be replaced. Good friends? Not so easy to replace. Get well soon!
The following is something I wrote on another antique automobile forum only two weeks ago in response to another wreck of an antique,
"Around here, almost every day as I am driving a modern vehicle, I come up behind other people driving their modern car ON THE FREEWAY at about 45 mph. I AM EXPECTED to not hit them. The law REQUIRES me to not hit them. I figure that if they are allowed to drive on the road, I have the right to drive my T on those same roads at about the same speeds as they do.
I watch very closely behind me when I drive my T. Beyond that, I really don't need to hear much more about it. If I am to be "expected" to not hit other slow vehicles? Then everyone else needs to be expected to not hit me if I am the slow vehicle.
I do appreciate all of these threads keeping us all informed about such "accidents" because we all (even me) do need to be reminded to pay attention and be proactive about our safety.
Hence the sign-off I have used off and on for years.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2" -
More details can help get better answers, although some of the advice above is very good.
I do not personally know anybody that is a "Stutz specific" collector. I do personally know several people that have one or more Stutz automobiles, Some of whom would be considered experts. I do know one family private collection that has six Stutz automobiles. And NO, I do NOT give out any of their names on open forum. I have been known to arrange personal contact if I believe it is warranted. Some of these people are older, some fairly young. One is in his dying days as we speak.
As previously mentioned above, specific year makes a big difference with Stutz.
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Thank you for the link! I did enjoy what I could see. For what it is worth, only somewhat over half the pictures loaded on my moderately slow DSL connection. Most of the last half just showed as "broken images". Large sites often will not load fully. There are some really unusual cars there.
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I am glad it is going back together and hope you enjoy the car for many, many, years to come!
Thank you for the update.
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Oh, yes, we can dream. Even I still try. I am still hoping to get back to getting my Paige done after the '15 Ford makes its first few tours.
Just to tease you a little bit, a fellow I knew some years ago was an Auburn specific collector. I think he had five of them if I remember correctly. He was not a close friend, but one I knew from shows and such, he and his wife were both very nice people. If I recall correctly, I think he had three 1932 Auburns, one of them an absolutely beautiful convertible sedan. He drove it to shows often. His regular sedan was equally, beautifully, restored. I never saw the third one. I don't recall what models they were, but I think the convertible sedan was an eight.
I do wish you success on getting the Auburn of your dreams!
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I pretty much figured that was what your position was. I have never had a specific marque that I was particularly interested in getting. In my better days, I have had a '25 and a '15 Studebakers that that I toured with quite a lot. I also toured a '25 series 80 Pierce Arrow that I loved. Over the years, I have had several good model Ts including a couple brass era cars that I enjoyed touring with. I also had a two cylinder horseless carriage that I was crazy about, but never quite got ready to drive. Life has never treated me all that well, and all those cars had to go away "for the good of family". I currently have a model T boat-tail roadster/speedster that is drive-able and a nice running and drive-able '24 T coupe whose unusual dash is shown in my avatar. I also have a mostly restored mostly correct '13 T speedster and a very real '15 T runabout that I am frantically trying to get back on the road (the replacement for several cars I had to sell), so I really have no grounds to complain. You made a comment about project cars " but I can see it coming and getting stuck in a corner and not getting a thing done on it in the next 3 years". Try fifty years. I have the '27 Paige my dad bought and buried in a corner when I was in high school. By the time it "became mine", I had other cars and other projects. It is on my list still, if I live long enough.
So I have never been a specific marque specialist, but I have known many people that were. Auburn has always interested me. I have known a few Auburn specialists. But the closest I will ever get to owning one is probably the transmission in my Paige. It is not for sale, nor do I have a usable spare. But when I was trying to get a good transmission for that Paige over forty years ago, I got lots of letters from Auburn owners hoping for leads. Seems that particular Warner gear transmission was notoriously weak. The one that provided the parts my Paige needed came out of a Jordan.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
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Corvettes, and model Ts. how different, yet how alike. I have never owned a Corvette and claim to know very little about them, but I have had a dozen model Ts since Stingrays were in their third year. On the model T forum I spend way too much on, I often comment about how much more is really known today that what was known when I got into the hobby nearly a half century ago. I remember many things I was told and cars that I saw that were all so very wrong. I thank Floyd Clymer every day for his contributions to automotive history first, and the formation of the hobby second. Then I quietly curse him for the errors in his books, books that I have had, loved, and read for decades.
Yes. Knowledge is a growing and fluid thing.
About Auburn automobiles for sale. There is a '29 sedan on eBad right now that looks like a decent older cosmetic restoration with a somewhat fixable original interior. It needs work, and is not a convertible, nor a coupe. But I would be curious to hear what the Auburn crowd thinks of it. I am not in the market for anything right now, and 1929 is a bit new for my interests anyway. Since this thread is discussing available Auburns, I thought maybe some could comment on it just for general interest and comparison.
W2
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Unfortunately, many parts are not terribly valuable. Of course, if they all were, most of us could never afford to keep, repair, or drive antiques, and perfectly good cars would either be parted out for profit, or worth so much that none but the wealthiest could afford anything.
Since vintage water-pumps tend to rot away, that part may be of some value if it is in fact part of a Cadillac water-pump. I don't have any Cadillac to compare it to. Mostly, getting vintage parts to appropriate users needs to be done for the good of the hobby as much as for the monetary return.
That has been my opinion for over 45 years and I am sticking to it.
Vintage water-pumps sometimes require very creative fabrication to rebuild.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
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I never keep any track of what I spend on antique automobiles. But I figure that I have spent less than a lot of people spend being sports fans (Their cable bill is probably more than I spend on club dues and gasoline).
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As 28 Chrysler says, I also know that there were some minor changes in the brackets and bracing between early and late 1926 and 1927 two door sedans and coupes. But I also don't really know what those differences are. I think the window riser mechanism may have also changed during that time. I usually play around with earlier stuff. However, the so-called "improved" Ts of '26/'27 have a very loyal following. One thing about model Ts. Although there are a lot of them around, there were so many minor variations on them that if you were to restore this and use the "wrong" window riser (for instance), nobody would really care. Most would just be pleased to see it restored and back on the road again.
The '15 runabout I am currently restoring, I started with just about that much.
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Hey, even I like that car! It is beautiful! Congratulations.
(I mostly stop looking at antiques cars newer than the early '30s)
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Yes, 1926 or '27. You can tell by the firewall which bulges forward some from the cowl. 1925 and earlier model T Ford two door sedans had a firewall that bolted to the front of the firewall, but is otherwise mostly flat.
It looks like it could be restorable. Maybe a bit ambitious to get all the rest of the pieces? But, actually, I have restored a couple cars starting with worse.
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It looks like part of a fan blade. Maybe someone tried to repair it with solder?
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Most cars of that era have few if any vapor-lock trouble. A few have a lot of trouble. Try it out and see. The cars with the most trouble with vapor-lock from what I read about (I don't have any that era) are the later '30s through early '50s. Big, enclosed engine compartments seem to trap heat. The few '20s cars I have known that had some trouble? It was usually solved with simple insulation of the fuel line. No need to change an engine.
I am in Grass Valley! Where about in the Califunny foothills are you?
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Yes, Cadillac won the Dewar trophy twice. According to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source), the Stanley twins also won once. I do not recall ever reading that before, however, it is likely true (but maybe should be verified). Several other English marques also won over the years.
That cap likely is for a Cadillac, but difficult to pin down the year. The style of cap/wings is more in keeping with the early to mid 1920s. The style of Motometer Junior I think first came out around 1918. Earlier Motometers generally had no glass or bezels although some did. There is one pictured that appears to have glass in the Floyd Clymer Motor Scrapbook number 2 on page 137. But it is not the same style as the one on this radiator cap. The Dewar trophy was a very prestigious award that Cadillac was rightfully proud of for many decades.
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I had not noticed that most location info was missing. Done.
Thank you.
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A hundred dollars might be about right. It would help to know within a hundred miles where it is.
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Buick engines of that era are not too difficult to get. I see them from time to time. Get busy on the Buick forums and get the word out that the car needs to be saved and an engine must be acquired. Bodies rotted off of a majority of those cars. Chassis survive in fields for decades. I used to know of several in Califunny, but not anymore.
You will need to provide the details of engine model identification to people so they can check and find the right one for you (I know the '25 to '28 engines both Standard and Master. '29 and '30 are somewhat different, but I do not know those differences. Get that information and post it on the appropriate web threads.
Sounds like it is time to lick the wounds, roll up the sleeves, and get to fixing a new (old Buick) engine.
Also, let us know where you are. It will make a big difference in looking at available engines or shipping them home.
Good luck!
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There were a couple of companies that sold after-market bodies to fit onto the standard CDO. I believe that Oldsmobile also offered these as factory built cars. I don't know which that one is.
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Nobody has said Paige? Also Jewett, and the company that took them over was Graham. Did anyone mention Metz? Its GM counterpart Cartercar, Carters former business partners in the Jackson automobile and its kissin' cousin the Fuller from Michigan. There was a different Fuller automobile from Nebraska.
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Coming into this discussion late. The pitfalls of not able to spend time every evening. A few points to ponder.
My first real running car was a 1929 REO when I was in high school. It was 40 years old at that time. I eventually sold it as I had come to the conclusion that it was a bit too modern for me. However, it was a solid unrestored car that ran strong and was willing to go a lot faster than I was willing to try it (I had it to 55 mph a few times). It drove wonderfully.
Both cars are in that in-between area. They are not "Full Classics", they are not Horseless Carriages, not really Nickel Era. Nor are they Fords with the huge clubs and fantastic tours all over the nation and most weekends of the year. And, unfortunately, much of the hobby prefers cars that are just a bit newer, faster, more streamlined. I said "unfortunately" because they are missing out on some really incredible cars. The late '20s to mid '30s have so many incredible cars to be enjoyed.
I have had several good friends that had late '20s to mid '30s Buicks. They too tend to be fast and reliable, good drivers. Both marques have supportive national clubs. The Buick club is probably the larger and more active of the two.
Usual advice that I often give to people getting into early cars is to figure out what you want, and what you expect to get from the car? (What clubs, shows, tours do you want to be welcomed on?) But in this case, it sounds like you have already done a good job there. Two excellent options. Very alike in many ways, with a few key differences.
When I first began reading this thread, looking at the first photos. I would have bet that the REO was not a truly original car. That is just too nice. And the word "original" has mostly lost its meaning as it has been stretched to mean so many different things to so many different people. So I am always skeptical when someone tells me a car is "original". "Restored" is another word that has lost its meaning ("Restored" does not necessarily mean anything was done properly). But when I watched the video, and got better looks at parts of the car? It may be an actual "Original car" .Anything truly original and anywhere near that nice is extra special and should be preserved as close to untouched original as possible. But it still should be carefully driven, seen, and appreciated.
Good luck!
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What is in a name? There have been numerous basically similar type materials that amount to a cloth (maybe cotton, maybe a more modern synthetic) held together and made somewhat water repellent by some binding/coating agent (shellac, something similar to enamel paint, or a more modern synthetic like vinyl). It may or may not be impressed with a "grain" or pattern. Ford started using a "leatherette" for some of the upholstery in 1913. They were not the first.
While modern vinyl is similar in visible structure to original top materials, and can be used and look good (given a decent grain), it would be best to use an actual top material because most vinyls are not intended for the direct exposure to the sun followed by being driven (trailered?) 70 mph down the freeway. Most model T parts suppliers can provide it or at least point you into the right direction. Top material comes in several standard widths. I found that the wider widths (such as 64 inch) are difficult to come by (is it okay for me to mention names or post a commercial link on this site???). If your car does not need the wider size, most any good model T, model A, or general antique automobile top supplier, should be able to help you.
Lincoln Collector Jack Passey
in General Discussion
Posted
Unfortunately, I have not spent nearly enough of my time lately being active in the antique cars hobby. The curse of a needy family. So, many of my wonderful memories are from years ago. And as I approach "that" age myself, my memory is becoming less reliable.
I have been trying to recall the sequence of the three Duesenbergs I remember from his collections. I clearly recall talking with him, and his telling another friend about it on the phone, when he bought the dual cowl phaeton. As I recall, it was either a '32 or '33 J. What I do remember is his showing me how the front fenders had been updated by the Duesenberg factory when the car was only a couple years old. The fenders had originally been the more open sided style common in the late '20s up until about '32. Shortly after that, Duesenberg, along with most other quality auto makers started putting skirts on the back part of the fender behind the front wheel. This was a short-lived style change that soon disappeared into further styling and fender changes. Being an original "Classic Era" and factory modification, was considered correct either way by the CCCA. Jack seemed unsure of which way he would leave the car. The car was largely unrestored original, and a sort of off-green color if I recall correctly. I saw the car a couple years later at a show, and it still looked basically as it was when he had gotten it.
Another Duesenberg I remember was I think a 1925 Model A Duesenberg. It was at about the time he was moving from San Jose, and several cars were tightly packed into a back corner of his building. I only looked at it a little bit because access was tight, and I never wanted to crowd his cars. I remember that it was also green, and beautifully restored. Since I have always tended to prefer earlier cars, I really liked that one.
The J series Duesenbergs may be most collector's favorite, but I always favored the model A. Of all the J series Duesenbergs I have ever seen, whether in person, or in photographs, my absolute favorite was Jack's 1929 Murphy bodied roadster. It was mostly black, with a little red accent here and there. The look, the balance, the flow of the body lines was perfect. I know it was more than forty years ago, but I cannot remember just where in the sequence he had that one. I watched him drive it into his shop one day. What a sweet sound.
All those Lincolns, more than 60 at one time if I recall correctly. The many Horseless Carriage automobiles I preferred, The Pierce Arrows he sometimes called a "Lumbering car" while rolling his shoulders around (yet he had several and drove them often, clearly he liked them a lot).
Yes, he may have been best known as the "Lincoln Collector", and one of the foremost authorities on early Lincoln automobiles. But Jack was an expert on many of the world's greatest automobiles. His was a very well rounded collection. And he was a wonderful, and charming person.
Me? I just wanted to bounce this back to the top for another day or two. For Jack.