wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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I pretty much figured that was what your position was. I have never had a specific marque that I was particularly interested in getting. In my better days, I have had a '25 and a '15 Studebakers that that I toured with quite a lot. I also toured a '25 series 80 Pierce Arrow that I loved. Over the years, I have had several good model Ts including a couple brass era cars that I enjoyed touring with. I also had a two cylinder horseless carriage that I was crazy about, but never quite got ready to drive. Life has never treated me all that well, and all those cars had to go away "for the good of family". I currently have a model T boat-tail roadster/speedster that is drive-able and a nice running and drive-able '24 T coupe whose unusual dash is shown in my avatar. I also have a mostly restored mostly correct '13 T speedster and a very real '15 T runabout that I am frantically trying to get back on the road (the replacement for several cars I had to sell), so I really have no grounds to complain. You made a comment about project cars " but I can see it coming and getting stuck in a corner and not getting a thing done on it in the next 3 years". Try fifty years. I have the '27 Paige my dad bought and buried in a corner when I was in high school. By the time it "became mine", I had other cars and other projects. It is on my list still, if I live long enough.
So I have never been a specific marque specialist, but I have known many people that were. Auburn has always interested me. I have known a few Auburn specialists. But the closest I will ever get to owning one is probably the transmission in my Paige. It is not for sale, nor do I have a usable spare. But when I was trying to get a good transmission for that Paige over forty years ago, I got lots of letters from Auburn owners hoping for leads. Seems that particular Warner gear transmission was notoriously weak. The one that provided the parts my Paige needed came out of a Jordan.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
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Corvettes, and model Ts. how different, yet how alike. I have never owned a Corvette and claim to know very little about them, but I have had a dozen model Ts since Stingrays were in their third year. On the model T forum I spend way too much on, I often comment about how much more is really known today that what was known when I got into the hobby nearly a half century ago. I remember many things I was told and cars that I saw that were all so very wrong. I thank Floyd Clymer every day for his contributions to automotive history first, and the formation of the hobby second. Then I quietly curse him for the errors in his books, books that I have had, loved, and read for decades.
Yes. Knowledge is a growing and fluid thing.
About Auburn automobiles for sale. There is a '29 sedan on eBad right now that looks like a decent older cosmetic restoration with a somewhat fixable original interior. It needs work, and is not a convertible, nor a coupe. But I would be curious to hear what the Auburn crowd thinks of it. I am not in the market for anything right now, and 1929 is a bit new for my interests anyway. Since this thread is discussing available Auburns, I thought maybe some could comment on it just for general interest and comparison.
W2
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Unfortunately, many parts are not terribly valuable. Of course, if they all were, most of us could never afford to keep, repair, or drive antiques, and perfectly good cars would either be parted out for profit, or worth so much that none but the wealthiest could afford anything.
Since vintage water-pumps tend to rot away, that part may be of some value if it is in fact part of a Cadillac water-pump. I don't have any Cadillac to compare it to. Mostly, getting vintage parts to appropriate users needs to be done for the good of the hobby as much as for the monetary return.
That has been my opinion for over 45 years and I am sticking to it.
Vintage water-pumps sometimes require very creative fabrication to rebuild.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
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I never keep any track of what I spend on antique automobiles. But I figure that I have spent less than a lot of people spend being sports fans (Their cable bill is probably more than I spend on club dues and gasoline).
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As 28 Chrysler says, I also know that there were some minor changes in the brackets and bracing between early and late 1926 and 1927 two door sedans and coupes. But I also don't really know what those differences are. I think the window riser mechanism may have also changed during that time. I usually play around with earlier stuff. However, the so-called "improved" Ts of '26/'27 have a very loyal following. One thing about model Ts. Although there are a lot of them around, there were so many minor variations on them that if you were to restore this and use the "wrong" window riser (for instance), nobody would really care. Most would just be pleased to see it restored and back on the road again.
The '15 runabout I am currently restoring, I started with just about that much.
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Hey, even I like that car! It is beautiful! Congratulations.
(I mostly stop looking at antiques cars newer than the early '30s)
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Yes, 1926 or '27. You can tell by the firewall which bulges forward some from the cowl. 1925 and earlier model T Ford two door sedans had a firewall that bolted to the front of the firewall, but is otherwise mostly flat.
It looks like it could be restorable. Maybe a bit ambitious to get all the rest of the pieces? But, actually, I have restored a couple cars starting with worse.
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It looks like part of a fan blade. Maybe someone tried to repair it with solder?
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Most cars of that era have few if any vapor-lock trouble. A few have a lot of trouble. Try it out and see. The cars with the most trouble with vapor-lock from what I read about (I don't have any that era) are the later '30s through early '50s. Big, enclosed engine compartments seem to trap heat. The few '20s cars I have known that had some trouble? It was usually solved with simple insulation of the fuel line. No need to change an engine.
I am in Grass Valley! Where about in the Califunny foothills are you?
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Yes, Cadillac won the Dewar trophy twice. According to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source), the Stanley twins also won once. I do not recall ever reading that before, however, it is likely true (but maybe should be verified). Several other English marques also won over the years.
That cap likely is for a Cadillac, but difficult to pin down the year. The style of cap/wings is more in keeping with the early to mid 1920s. The style of Motometer Junior I think first came out around 1918. Earlier Motometers generally had no glass or bezels although some did. There is one pictured that appears to have glass in the Floyd Clymer Motor Scrapbook number 2 on page 137. But it is not the same style as the one on this radiator cap. The Dewar trophy was a very prestigious award that Cadillac was rightfully proud of for many decades.
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I had not noticed that most location info was missing. Done.
Thank you.
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A hundred dollars might be about right. It would help to know within a hundred miles where it is.
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Buick engines of that era are not too difficult to get. I see them from time to time. Get busy on the Buick forums and get the word out that the car needs to be saved and an engine must be acquired. Bodies rotted off of a majority of those cars. Chassis survive in fields for decades. I used to know of several in Califunny, but not anymore.
You will need to provide the details of engine model identification to people so they can check and find the right one for you (I know the '25 to '28 engines both Standard and Master. '29 and '30 are somewhat different, but I do not know those differences. Get that information and post it on the appropriate web threads.
Sounds like it is time to lick the wounds, roll up the sleeves, and get to fixing a new (old Buick) engine.
Also, let us know where you are. It will make a big difference in looking at available engines or shipping them home.
Good luck!
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There were a couple of companies that sold after-market bodies to fit onto the standard CDO. I believe that Oldsmobile also offered these as factory built cars. I don't know which that one is.
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Nobody has said Paige? Also Jewett, and the company that took them over was Graham. Did anyone mention Metz? Its GM counterpart Cartercar, Carters former business partners in the Jackson automobile and its kissin' cousin the Fuller from Michigan. There was a different Fuller automobile from Nebraska.
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Coming into this discussion late. The pitfalls of not able to spend time every evening. A few points to ponder.
My first real running car was a 1929 REO when I was in high school. It was 40 years old at that time. I eventually sold it as I had come to the conclusion that it was a bit too modern for me. However, it was a solid unrestored car that ran strong and was willing to go a lot faster than I was willing to try it (I had it to 55 mph a few times). It drove wonderfully.
Both cars are in that in-between area. They are not "Full Classics", they are not Horseless Carriages, not really Nickel Era. Nor are they Fords with the huge clubs and fantastic tours all over the nation and most weekends of the year. And, unfortunately, much of the hobby prefers cars that are just a bit newer, faster, more streamlined. I said "unfortunately" because they are missing out on some really incredible cars. The late '20s to mid '30s have so many incredible cars to be enjoyed.
I have had several good friends that had late '20s to mid '30s Buicks. They too tend to be fast and reliable, good drivers. Both marques have supportive national clubs. The Buick club is probably the larger and more active of the two.
Usual advice that I often give to people getting into early cars is to figure out what you want, and what you expect to get from the car? (What clubs, shows, tours do you want to be welcomed on?) But in this case, it sounds like you have already done a good job there. Two excellent options. Very alike in many ways, with a few key differences.
When I first began reading this thread, looking at the first photos. I would have bet that the REO was not a truly original car. That is just too nice. And the word "original" has mostly lost its meaning as it has been stretched to mean so many different things to so many different people. So I am always skeptical when someone tells me a car is "original". "Restored" is another word that has lost its meaning ("Restored" does not necessarily mean anything was done properly). But when I watched the video, and got better looks at parts of the car? It may be an actual "Original car" .Anything truly original and anywhere near that nice is extra special and should be preserved as close to untouched original as possible. But it still should be carefully driven, seen, and appreciated.
Good luck!
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What is in a name? There have been numerous basically similar type materials that amount to a cloth (maybe cotton, maybe a more modern synthetic) held together and made somewhat water repellent by some binding/coating agent (shellac, something similar to enamel paint, or a more modern synthetic like vinyl). It may or may not be impressed with a "grain" or pattern. Ford started using a "leatherette" for some of the upholstery in 1913. They were not the first.
While modern vinyl is similar in visible structure to original top materials, and can be used and look good (given a decent grain), it would be best to use an actual top material because most vinyls are not intended for the direct exposure to the sun followed by being driven (trailered?) 70 mph down the freeway. Most model T parts suppliers can provide it or at least point you into the right direction. Top material comes in several standard widths. I found that the wider widths (such as 64 inch) are difficult to come by (is it okay for me to mention names or post a commercial link on this site???). If your car does not need the wider size, most any good model T, model A, or general antique automobile top supplier, should be able to help you.
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I am actually glad that brass era cars continue to remain desirable and valuable (in a dollar sense). Consider the many millions of dollars total spent by hobbyists every year to restore, preserve, insure, and house horseless carriages. Even I have to acknowledge that a part of my house mortgage is paying for the garage with two antiques in it, and the sheds with a few others (while the modern cars sit outside). If the most desirable cars were not worth a quarter of a million or up? The lesser cars would be losing their garages and being lost to time. To me, the main point of the hobby is the history, and preserving it, including keeping the cars for future generations to see.
If the price to me for that is that I have to do the best I can with a "lesser" car? So be it. The brass model Ts I have may just have to do so that I can go on a wonderful tour and follow for miles that Locomobile or Thomas Flyer I love.
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Yes, definitely need better pictures. The wheels confuse the issue quite a bit. Are they in any real way a part of this chassis?
It looks as though the front axle may swing from a center point for steering? Is that the way it is? If it does swing from the center, that does not totally rule out horseless carriage, but it nearly does. Horse-drawn carriages almost always steered by swinging the front axle from a center point. This worked for them because the rigging was attached to the horse which in return anchored the axle to follow the horse. Simple steering connected to a swinging axle was tried several times in the earliest horseless carriages. However it was quickly discovered that it was a very bad idea for them because without the horse to hold the axle forward ahead, one wheel would hit a pothole, or even a small rock, causing that wheel to stop and swing the axle for a wild dart to the right or left. It was found very early that the wheels had to steer from kingpins out near the ends of the front axle. (If I recall correctly, even the Duryeas may have made that discovery with their first car attempt in 1893) ( Or am I thinking of Black's first attempt, or both?)
If the steering is on a fixed axle, steering out near the ends? How is the axle made? How is it attached? Many horse-drawn carriages were modified into horseless carriages, some by modifying the horse-drawn axles, some by replacing the axles with something else. Some of these were done back in the early horseless carriage era, many of them were done decades later in an attempt to make a horseless carriage parade vehicle. Generally speaking, such modified carriages done much after the original horseless carriage era are not considered valuable. (There is an argument that such things built back in the '50s and '60s or earlier maybe should be considered antiques in their own right. But they cannot be considered as original horseless carriage era vehicles.)
The steel seat skin looks like one that was used by several carriage manufacturers after 1900, and at least into the 1920s. They have been used on several model T (and other) speedsters, as well as at least a few times on re-bodied horseless carriages. They may have been used on a few early cars, but I have never seen one that was. So that, I won't say that I know. (Again, if I recall correctly, I saw one such seat on a one cylinder Cadillac, but it was definitely not original to the car.)
The real answer as to what this is lies in details that cannot be seen in these photos. Many early horseless carriages were made by copying how horse-drawn carriages were built. For this reason, some of them did use cross-ways front springs like were common on horse-drawn carriages.
So again, better pictures if you can. Then one of us can tell you more for certain.
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Before throwing stuff like that away, I would give it to someone that regularly sells similar stuff at swap meets. I have done that with things before.
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As I stated on the question thread under general discussions, I think they are Studebaker, about 1915 to maybe '17.
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I am not 100 percent sure (I should be, I used to have one), I am fairly sure they are Studebaker 7-passenger touring seats from about 1915 to maybe '17. They were fairly famous for their fold-flat-into-the-floor jump seats. They varied from one year to the next a little bit, and I don't recall the specifics off hand. It should not be difficult to find a Studebaker owner that could make good use of them.
Posting good pictures on the Studebaker threads should help pin them down. Stating where you/they are located without having to follow links usually helps find people interested also.
Good luck!
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"Actually broken"? That IS interesting.
I do have to say that there are repair options that should be highly advised against. A few years ago, I was considering making a short piece and welding it onto a ring that was too small but otherwise fit really well. Fortunately, I found a truly proper ring and did not need to do that.
I was taught early to "NEVER STRAIGHTEN A BENT OR TWISTED RING". But if antique cars are going to be maintained and driven occasionally? Damaged rings will have to be repaired and straightened for some of them. I have straightened several myself. I expect to have to straighten a few more. If I can't find what I need for my son's car, I am even considering a way of making the three we need for it.
Any sort of welding or heating of rings should be done by someone with a little more than average welding and metallurgical background.
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When the production of civilian vehicles was ended for the war effort, the remaining completed supply was divided up and warehoused. One portion was set aside for military use, and painted as such. Another large group of cars and standard duty trucks were set aside for civilian use, to be rationed out for the duration of the war.
My grandfather was a farmer raising (he never said growing, you "raised" peaches) about a hundred acres of peaches. These were sold for canning and sent overseas for our military as well as rationed into civilian markets. They were about ten miles out of town on rough roads (by today's standards) and in 1944, the '30s Buick he had been nursing along before the war finally gave out. He needed to have reliable transportation to and from town on a regular basis, and the old truck wasn't up to the task and was needed for truck duty besides. So he had to apply to the rations board, but was granted permission to buy a brand new 1942 Oldsmobile. It was licensed as a 1944 automobile. I really wish I could have that car today.
I have never seen real figures on how many vehicles were set aside. My guess would be that right after the Pearl Harbor attack. the factories probably ran near capacity for the two months before they shut the lines down to make the full switch to wartime production. My guess would be that a few tens of thousand cars and trucks were set aside and doled out over the next five years. Remember, only a small number of cars were produced in 1946 after the war ended late in '45. It took almost a year to get everything switched back and moving again.
Another consideration on your truck. Many years ago, I saw a similar Chevrolet or GMC flatbed truck that the owner claimed was a wartime new truck. My dad looked at it and recognized something unusual in the wiring on the engine's firewall. I wish I could remember what it was, but he said it was something to do with wartime production.
Hopefully my little brain-freeze can trigger someone else more familiar with these to post something about it.
Another one probably lost to the TV craze, just my luck
in General Discussion
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Oh, yes, we can dream. Even I still try. I am still hoping to get back to getting my Paige done after the '15 Ford makes its first few tours.
Just to tease you a little bit, a fellow I knew some years ago was an Auburn specific collector. I think he had five of them if I remember correctly. He was not a close friend, but one I knew from shows and such, he and his wife were both very nice people. If I recall correctly, I think he had three 1932 Auburns, one of them an absolutely beautiful convertible sedan. He drove it to shows often. His regular sedan was equally, beautifully, restored. I never saw the third one. I don't recall what models they were, but I think the convertible sedan was an eight.
I do wish you success on getting the Auburn of your dreams!