Lee Stohr

This particular Christie was documented scrapped in period, so no parts exist. Fortunately the Automobile magazine did a lengthy story on the car in 1909, including two drawings and much description of the parts of the car, including dimensions. And we have collected 100 photos of the car. It will be a very accurate re-creation. If there is a part of the car where we lack information, we look at how Christie did it on his previous cars. I have the Tredwell Christie photo Collection and Christie's adopted son's papers. Regarding Harrah buying Christie parts, I have never heard of it.

This is the Christie that is being reproduced. One of the major parts that is complete are the giant cylinder castings, 7.5" bore and 7" stroke! As I said, Jim will be telling the story in the future, I'm just one member of the project team. Jim is very, very busy at the moment organizing a vintage racing event to be held at Road America in July.

Hi, just saw this Christie discussion. I hope I'm replying in the right place here. There may have been a Christie in a barn on Long Island somewhere but I have never heard that it existed in 1995. Christie built at least 7 cars. His final race car, later driven by Barney Oldfield, is being recreated by Jim Bartel in Michigan. The project isn't a secret, and Jim will likely post about it next year as it progresses. I am just a part of the team effort. The Barney Oldfield Christie was confirmed scrapped in Chicago in 1919.

Hi Greg, Great to make your acquaintance as well. Surprisingly we don't live far apart, but of course travel is impossible now. Another thing occurs to me, if you haven't done it already, you probably should inspect your cylinder block very closely and make sure it is usable. Any major cracks or issues there, and the whole project might be more than you want to spend. To make a Crankcase drawing, I'd start with the sump flange plan view and the bottom of the cylinders plan view, then space them apart the correct distance, then start filling in the parts. Main bearings, tappets, camshaft bores, etc. Use a wall thickness of at least 3/8". Maybe there is a Teetor Hartley parts manual somewhere? They often included very nice side and front section drawings. Lee

Some images of a 1907 Pierce crankcase reproduction -

Hi Greg, I'm online now, happy to answer any questions. It is possible to make a reproduction crankcase, but the more information you can find, the more accurate it will be. The sump would have given all the necessary dimensions for the crankcase lower flange, but if you don't have that, it becomes more of a guess. As I said above, there can be things inside the crankcase that are critically important, the oiling system, for instance. The Pierce crankcase has little troughs cast-in to catch oil and direct it to the camshaft bearings. There are a lot of undercuts and shape to the front and rear of your crankcase, that probably means some fancy core work. In other words, you can't make a simple loose pattern that would pull straight out of the sand. Your sump may have had an internal box/cavity of some kind to catch oil for the pump to return it to wherever, I don't know how the lubrication system worked. It's a bit of work for sure, but people do it.

Jeff, This is a good source for ubolts, if the sizes work for your car - http://www.packardtwelve.com/shop/14ggg7pljaxlhm7oqovuupsp8a0jno

A little under $200 each.

I recently used a company called eMachineShop (NJ) to make 8 custom U-Bolts for a pre-WWI European car. These were made from my CAD drawing. Rather than searching for a shop yourself, these guys send out your part for quotation and respond with the best price they can find. I don't even know who actually machined my parts. I'm used to visiting machine shops and talking to the actual machinist, so this process made me nervous. But they did the job perfectly, in 20 days, as they promised. I also had these U-bolts quoted by Stratasys in direct metal 3D printing, but the cost was just too high at $536 each. I tried investment casting but it was also too expensive compared to machining. I just want to share my experience with eMachineShop in case this might be useful for anyone else. These U-Bolts had to be a specific metric size and special cross-section shape, so I couldn't find anything off-the-shelf that matched.

If you need a reproduction casting, I can deliver the casting. You don't need to know what foundry poured it if you're not interested in all the engineering detail. There are pattern shops in the USA that can do what ExOne does. I just happen to have a good relationship with the guys in Troy, Michigan.

I have received only good castings from ExOne since 2010. There are other companies in Europe doing similar work, Voxeljet for one. Machining a casting is an additional cost. I don't do machining but I do provide the drawings for the machinist.

If a casting is really complicated, if it originally required a pallet of patterns and if you only need one or two castings, then I would skip the pattern making all together. I would use ExOne's patternless casting process. You still need someone to draw your part in CAD, and ExOne takes it from there. They give a guaranteed fixed price and schedule for the casting. I produce CAD drawings and often use ExOne. There are more economical ways to get simple castings made, but for the really tough castings in low volumes, ExOne in the USA is the most professional, trouble free, way to go.

My wife discovered Staunton, Virginia a few years ago and we moved there. If you like small town life, it is a very economical place. Voted one of the best small towns in the country by Smithsonian magazine. Right on Interstate 81 and 64. Look it up if you are interested.

Sure, I will help if I can. For loose pattern work as shown above, I often use American Alloy Foundry in Baltimore, owned by Bob Eagan. He's a good guy. I have not needed 3D scanning yet. The red Pattern is about $400 and the Core shown is about $150 plus $100 shipping (they are delicate). Then you have to add the CAD drawing time, which depends a lot on how much information I have to start with. For this job, say $1000. Lee Stohr 540-255-6772

Here are some photos of a 3D printed pattern and core and the final aluminum casting. Most of what's marked up on the red pattern is core print (it holds the core in place). I included two castings on one pattern. It's about 22" long. This is called loose pattern work, no pattern boards are needed. You just give your foundry the red pattern and sand core.

I do not know what the manifold looks like, but if it can be pulled from a simple cope/drag flask, then all you need is a loose pattern with proper core prints to locate the core. A loose pattern can be made in several different ways, some economical, some more expensive.

If you can make a CAD drawing of the core, then the core sand can be 3D printed for $150 or so. No core box is needed. You just hand the core to your foundryman.

Sometimes 3D printing is cheaper. Rather than spending a couple thousand dollars CNC machining a core pattern for a metal casting, you can order the sand core itself from a 3D printer for a couple hundred bucks.

Mr Restorer32, Here is an actual price for a one-off reproduction crankcase for an early 4 cylinder T-Head engine, an aluminum casting made by 3D printed sand molds by ExOne in Troy, Michigan. Engineering included. $15,000 Final machining not included. Lee

Mr Restorer32, I did reply with my estimated engineering cost for a cylinder/jug on the other posting. Sorry if it looks like hedging, but my price really depends on what type of data I'm given to start with. One guy actually gave me a 2D CAD drawing to begin a casting job, and of course that can be quickly converted into 3D CAD. I don't presently deal with plastic or bakelite reproduction parts. I hope someone else can help with the Auburn part.

Engineering time to draw a cylinder depends on how much information exists to start the drawing. Worst case is when no original part exists and I'm only given a few dimensions and photographs. I enjoy those projects, they take some knowledge of how old engines were made. Usually some detective work is involved. I've cut open an old REO cylinder to measure wall thicknesses and study the coolant flow path through an F head engine. The CAD job includes producing machining drawings in addition to the casting drawing. Engineering charge for a cylinder could reach $5000 worst case.

Terry, I have only worked with cast metals. I know that 3D printed plastic leaves visible layer lines which somebody would have to sand off and polish to get the appearance of a distributor cap. The layers may be only .003" but you can see them. I focus on drawing parts in CAD. There is a big market for reproduction die castings and plastic car parts, but I'm not very knowledgeable on that right now.

There is an example of a fairly complex 3D printed casting shown here - http://theoldmotor.com/?p=128497. This casting was made in Troy, Michigan by the ExOne company. They are pretty much the state of the art in rapid prototyping of castings.

I should add that the ExOne process does not use traditional patterns and core boxes. So if you only need one casting, you won't have to pay for patterns and core boxes, and you won't have to store them or risk damaging them from shipping to and from the foundry. However, every additional cylinder casting from ExOne will cost about $2500, so this process isn't economical for large quantities of castings.

The ExOne company in the link above is located in Troy, Michigan. I have done some work with them. Their cost to make one reproduction cast iron engine cylinder is about $5500. In addition to that cost you must add the cost of an engineer preparing a CAD drawing of the cylinder. The advantage of this new process is that you are guaranteed a perfect casting in 6-8 weeks. There is no trial and error work; no cutting up the first casting to check for core shift or porosity. The complexity of the casting has little effect on the price, the size of the part is a bigger factor than complexity.