Gunsmoke
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Posts posted by Gunsmoke
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Yes, confusing as it appears the speedometer is in miles per hour with a top end of 120MPH. If in kilometers it would only be 65MPH which cannot be correct unless for a truck with governor? Appears odometer may have used KM's which suggests it may have been for export.
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The Chrysler Airflow video was very illuminating, I had probably read the stuff over the years but was not aware of it's big influence on the decisions of the other manufacturers. Not sure the others put the engine directly over front axle, but as someone mentioned, the nose forward innovation of the Airflow captured the imagination of others, and needed or not, the "Nose" was born. A collateral feature was moving the rear seat forward allowed for the development of the conventional trunk as we know it. With modrn front wheel drive and transverse engines (not to mention EV's, I suspect grills and noses will be changing again as time passes.
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Original post has been amended to ask the question Frank. Nice nose you've got there, they certainly draw attention, especially since virtually all makes in those days from the cowl back looked the same.
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I agree WP, the Cord grill while referred to as "a nose" is really set back like most pre 1935 cars, typically in line with the front axle or just slightly ahead of it, and it is one of my favorite treatments and way ahead of it's time. The "experimental" Cord certainly showed that a big nose was not the way to go! With the development of V8's and a generally shorter block, one would have thought grills could have stayed in line with front axle, as there appears to be no reason for moving everything forward dramatically. I suppose there may be some weight distribution science behind overall vehicle configurations, but if so, it escapes me.
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The recent post on Phil's 1934 Buick with it's striking front radiator shell/grille, reminded me again that the 1934 year marked the end of that classic styling motif in American cars. By 1937/38, the "Innie" motif so well fashioned by the 1934 Ford and many others, was replaced by the often hideous "Outie" motif, the Cyrano de Bergerac like noses which became so common all of a sudden, with no more obvious example than the "Shark-Nosed" 37/38 Grahams. It was a motif that would last into the post war (although if the war had not interceded it would have likely died earlier). As many know, these bulbous protuberances were often largely open spaces, and seemed to serve no meaningful engineering purpose, but were largely a styling exercise. The only successful execution of the motif IMHO was the 1937 Coffin nosed Cord. Anyone have thoughts about why the pre '35 style of rad/grill ended abruptly and the "nose style" began? (? added for clarity).
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Edinmass said "So a rough estimate is that about 7% of all CCCA Full Classics are here in FL." With 6.5% of the countries population, they have only their fair share. It raises the question "Is there a state with a significantly higher share than their population would warrant?" I'm guessing states with a lot of wealthy folks would tend to have high numbers, California, Texas, New York, but their large population numbers might lower their relative share. Since so many CCCA Full Classics surviving are soft tops, I'm also guessing warmer climates might be a factor. Someone with access to the CCCA roster should be able to give us an answer shortly!
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8E45E my goodness, that ELCORD plated car one only a mother could love! Real Jekyll and Hyde number. Other than the popup headlights and unique wheels, would never identify it as Cord. Don't think Gordon B had a design hand in this one.
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I am not a mechanic, but a DIY car guy. When I had the head off my 1931 Chrysler CD8 (240CI), I also popped out the original frost lugs in the block so I could thoroughly clear out any crud accumulated over the 90 years. These Chrysler blocks had an early history of overheating in the 6/7/8 cyl areas due to inadequate circulation, and being so far from the rad. There was a lot of crud, in some cases passageways were reduced to very small openings, and much of the crud had solidified, so even a normal flushing operation would not likely clear it out. I poked and brushed, using a variety of tools, wires and even magnets, and with access thru the frost plugs outlets, and various other cooling posts, got perhaps 95% of it and then pressure flushed any remaining. I did similar exercise with head although it is much less complicated.
So you need to be aware of the possible buildup of crud in the block/head, reducing circulation, especially at the back of the engine. If you have access to someone with a heat detection device (one of those with a screen that shows different temps across the block end to end), you may be able to run engine up to operating temperature and identify where in the engine the source of the overheating is occurring. There are likely business that can give the block/head/system a good pressure flush without removing frost plugs (avoid doing rad at same time to avoid plugging the rad up) with products that can dissolve some of the crud. Good luck. BTW, fine looking car.
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Great old car, be interesting to get everyone's thoughts on what they would do with it. Having "survived" for nearly 90 years in it's original skin, I'd be tempted, indeed planning on keeping it " looking unmolested", i.e. redo the mechanicals/electrical, buff up the skin, touch up any real surface rust spots, do what is reasonable to salvage the brightwork and make top and interior drivable. But I'm sure Phil and his very accommodating wife have a plan. Good luck Phil what ever you decide.
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Thanks for thoughts Wayne S (and NZC). The side curtains are unusual, and I thought the roof seems higher than I would normally expect. Not sure vintage of photo and thought narrowing down car might enable a guess for photo vintage. Appears front door may be open and the white "sail" like form is curious, My initial thought was Studebaker but there were so many options back then.
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I recently sold my restored 1931 Chevrolet, so no longer need this great set of "must haves" if anyone owns or is restoring such a car. (1) The green "Operation and Care" manual is mint, 62 pages, likely a long ago reproduction authorized by GM. (2) The Chevrolet Repair Manual is also in mint condition, 275 pages, also likely a long ago reproduction authorized by GM. (3) The 1929-1932 Master Parts List is 340 pages, includes excellent illustrations. (4) Bound copy of Fisher Body Service Manual, about 150 pages, essential info and tips on body restoration and maintenance. (5) Chevrolet Service News Bulletins (bound with Fisher Manual), Jan 1930-Dec 1931, about 200 pages covering mid-year changes, advice on unique features etc.
Selling only as a set, asking $100 or best offer plus shipping. If you have a 1929-1932 Chevrolet, these items will be a big help in understanding and maintaining your car.
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First a little history lesson:
Guglielmo Marconi was a Nobel Prize winning Italian inventor known for his creation of a practical radio-wave based telegraph system and is credited with being the inventor of the Radio. In the 1890’s he began working on the idea of wireless telegraphy and came up with the basic components, a transmitter with sending key, a sending system (tower), and a receiver/recorder that transcribed the Morse code (dots and dashes) onto paper rolls. On December 17 1902, a transmission from the Marconi Station in Glace Bay, Nova Scotia, became the world’s first radio transmission across the Atlantic Ocean from North America to Europe. A month later on Jan 18, 1903 US President Roosevelt sent greetings to King Edward VII via a station built in South Wellfleet, Mass., the first transmission from the US to Europe.
This photo shows the mentioned Marconi Station in Glace Bay (where I was born incidentally), and I'm wondering if anyone can pin down the make and vintage of the touring car sitting out front. Thanks.
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RW wrote 'and (t)here are scams that have never, ever, been heard of before! Life is great with CASH! (Or a US postal money order)". While true RW, I don't understand how cash and MO's prevent or reduce the possibility of scams? Quite the contrary. Cash payments are untraceable and so if you get scammed on a cash payment you have no record And again, if the seller cashes the MO and somehow doesn't deliver the goods you ordered, you have little recourse (other than going on here and ranting as some have done), especially on international purchases. Paypal (and there may be others) seems to have largely eliminated this issue. If a scammer does pull something on paypal, they cancel the seller ASAP, and limit the possible damage to one buyer, and their process refunds the buyer his/her money. Old Dogs New Tricks.
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It is hard to beat a well tuned and fitted 1931 Model A Tudor for cost, reliability, availability of parts, ease of maintenance etc (or a roadster, coupe, sedan), and joy on the road is only possible with trouble free transport. And there is no issue with mechanical brakes, well capable of stopping the car and none of the issues hydraulic brakes of that era have (leaks for example). And virtually any issue with a Model A can be fixed by any local knowledgeable car guy. The 1931 Chevrolet is equally reliable and a bit larger, with a 6 cyl engine, but like the Model A, comfortable at 40-45 max. When you step out of these 2 "common" cars (some might throw Plymouth& Dodge into same category), which have a huge following and supplier network, ownership comes with a new set of challenges, typically, who is going to service your car, parts unavailability, higher purchase cost, etc. This '31 Model A Tudor is owned by a friend who restored it 15-20 years ago. He drives it generously every summer and it remains in superb condition. But he does limit his runs to 40-50 mile return trips just as a caution. My '31 Deluxe Chevrolet was undergoing restoration when photo was taken in 2017, but again is vey reliable. Another friends '31 Dodge DH is a 25 year old restoration and runs trouble free every summer. I'll let others reflect on the next level up, Buick, Studebaker, Chrysler, Pontiac or even higher, Packard, Auburn.....!
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TAKerry said "Who knew that Canada doesn't take our money?" OUCH. Of course we are happy to take US money, as are our banks. However, the issue with MO's internationally is that they are issued by a domestic bank (sometimes a small local state/county bank), but being redeemed by a bank in another country. The Bank in Canada has to go through the process of having the MO cleared, sometimes with a small US Bank they have no normal dealings with. This happened to me when I got an MO issued by a small Bank somewhere in mid-West, and my Bank, one of the 3 largest in Canada had never heard of the Bank and took several extra days to clear the MO. If you actually had a failure, it was most likely due to some other issue at your end.
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I'm not a spokesperson for Paypal nor a shareholder. But definitely the way to go with long distance sales. While they are not free (charge the seller a small fee), the sale is guaranteed by Paypal at both ends, buyer and seller. I've used Paypal perhaps 100 times, never an issue. And it's simple to register and from that point on only your email address is used to make contacts. Failing that, a MO or bank draft works fine, but as mentioned, the long delay is problematic. For example if Paypal is used, the seller can have his money in his account in 5 minutes and ship the item 5 minutes later. Delivery is then perhaps 5-7 days. If using a MO, you need go to the bank, then the post office to mail it, 1 day, and wait another 5-7 days for seller to get the MO. Then wait 2-3 days for seller to go to his bank and deposit it. Then wait 4-10 days for seller's bank to get it cleared. Only then will seller pack the item and mail it, another 2 days. Shipping will typically take 5-7 days. so a total of 24-25 days versus the 7 days via Paypal. Then the real kicker, if product is defective or not as described, you are on your own, and if seller says bug off the saga is over. But you likely know all this, so my advice, get someone you trust to help you set up a paypal account and I guarantee you will be very happy in the end.
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Found this photo of the modern vent installed in my 1931 Chrysler rear end.
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A little change of pace today, interesting 1931 Chrysler CD8 Roadster hotrod on Hemmings blog today, something you will not see very often (if ever). This vehicle was created around same time in early fifties that my project was being hot-rodded (earliest known photo of mine taken in 1954/55). Body looks generally unaltered from firewall back, but obviously the foreshortened hood area (Chrysler hood is 42" long) gives it a more stubby look. Some of the following is from the Hemmings post.
Chrysler CD8 body on Ford Chassis
An incredible original well documented hot rod from the 1950's "The Campus Chariot," a 1931 Chrysler CD8 roadster body channeled 8 inches over a shortened chrome 1940 Ford chassis that was built in the early 1950's in West Haven Connecticut. The engine is a "souped up" Mercury flathead V8 with finned aluminum Edmunds Special racing heads, aluminum Offenhauser dual carburetor intake manifold with two chrome Ford 97 carburetors and a Mallory racing two spark ignition making this car really fast. First publicly shown ..at the 1957 Hartford Autorama where it was received very well by the public. It then was shown again in 1958 at the Westchester, New York Autorama. In 1961 the car would be sold to its next owner who would keep the car until his death this year, Mr. Robert "Bob" Ritchie of Stratford, Connecticut. The car would finally be parked in the mid 1970's and was kept out of sight for the next 45 years. The Ritchie Roadster is in completely original condition with its original 10 coats of deep blue lacquer paint and original blue and white candy stripe interior. This is one of the best original, well documented and significant east coast hot rods existing today.
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I installed a standard screw-in vent on top of the axle housing, barely visible in this photo on pass side (shadow being cast halfway between pumpkin and spring saddle), 1931 Chrysler. With gas tank installed, will be impossible to see.
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JoelsBuicks said "I’ve been rewooding 30’s Buicks for a while now", nice work, becoming a lost art.
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Block may be to secure the rearview mirror bracket, which may not be on center.
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HHO from chart was manufactured in Nov '27 making it a 4 cyl model 52 business coupe, and likely a 1928 model as OP concluded. Top padded vinyl material likely is supposed to wrap down around rear of roof like a fake convertible. It was considered a 2 passenger car, fitted with trunk and sold for $725. The doors most likely can be adjusted into correct position by careful tweaking of mounting points, there is usually info on this in operating manual, or someone on here can tell you the drill. If body is currently slightly twisted because of too many or too fwew shims, that will but door our of alignment as you note. Getting everything straight can be a simple but time consuming process, involves loosening some body bolts, adding 1/16" shim re-tightening and seeing what improves, and then repeating over and over until all lines up. Much easier on a 2 door than on a 4 door!
The Passgr door is high at front and low at rear. After you get the "twist out", some of this may resolve. If not, either front door post has to be raised slightly, or rear door post lowered. Sometimes 1/16" steel shim can make a big difference. Also keep an eye on both sides of car as you work, as a change on one side can cause a change on opposite side. When I do this my starting point is always making sure shims at forward most mounts (front of cowl) are even and firmly bolted down, and hood is properly in line (all gaps at ciowl and rad shell even and parallel).
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Past few days I focused on finishing the under dash bits, including the steering wheel sealing rubber, the accelerator and starter cover plate gaskets and put the shifter ebrake cover in place to assess what it will need. 90 year old piece is in decent shape, should be salvageable with a little work.
I then started making fittings for mounting the front seat base. The seat came from a 1932 Dodge Coupe (thanks to Rob B in Maryland), and was a fixed seat and back, mounted on a base with steel end panels. I separated into just the seat and back. The seat is un-changed other than removing fore/aft adjusting mechanism. The back had to be altered to match general profile of top of rear tub, which has a compound curve. Add and subtract work, to the wood backing got it close. Seats will eventually be re-upholstered in leather with no pleats.
The floor I have came from the sedan donor and it had a 3.5" steel riser with sliding tracks on each side (see final photo). The Roadster seats were designed to sit right on floor, and were more or less flat in the seat area, while sedan seats had a noticeable dip toward rear. I removed the riser from floor (it was spot welded in a dozen spots) and reversed it so 3" riser is at back, and cut and tapered sides to drop to zero at front edge, and bolted it to floor. Note the tool tray under seat. This would have been inaccessible in the sedan because seat was fixed in place. (I suppose one could access it from the back seat through rear passenger foot space?). To allow access to tool tray, I made 2 hinges from scraps lying around and secured one piece to floor (2 5/16" bolts) and other piece to screwed to underside of seat. A couple of 7/16" bolts were reshaped to create suitable clevis pins and secured in place with scissor clips. Finished seat can easily tilt forward (eventually comes up against steering wheel) to access tool tray. The seat can go no further forward or it would interfere with removal of battery access panel (plywood trapezoid shown). The seat back is long enough to go 4"-5" below seat itself, and is a good tight fit. It will eventually be secured to the 3 vertical braces behind it.
When I got the seat assembly, Rob told me it should fit nicely. As it turns out, it clears the inside edge of both doors by about 1/4". Tomorrow I'll take these pieces apart and do a final cleanup of the welds and prime and paint the hinges before moving on to the next task.
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Block may be to secure the rearview mirror bracket, which may not be on center.
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1931 Chrysler CD8 Roadster Rebuild Diary
in Chrysler Products - General
Posted · Edited by Gunsmoke (see edit history)
Spent last couple of days fine tuning fit and shape of rumble seats and adjusting rumble seat lid gaps. Nothing unusual worth photographing there. Yesterday before starting work on rear shock install and gas tank, I decided to have a look at a compromise solution for the front fenders. As indicated earlier, no running boards came with this car, and I also concluded they are not useful on a roadster. The seats in roadsters are 2-3 lower than sedans, and the narrow door and low steering wheel (about 5"-6" clearance to seat) make getting in and out a squeeze. It would be impossible if you stepped first on the running board. So running boards are out.
That decision led me to cycle style fenders for front and minor mods to rear fenders as shown in original illustration. Finding suitable starter fenders for such a solution has been challenging, especially when looking for something that does not clash with rear fenders. Also fender braces and headlight cross bar are difficult to work around. I have 2 sets of original CD8 front fenders, but 3 of the 4 are in very rough condition, one (driver side) having been in a major fender bender 60 years ago. While the original large clamshell fenders looks fine and stately on the sedans and closed cars, I always felt they looked heavy and not particularly sporty on the Roadster, especially from front on views.
So I am now thinking of a compromise solution. I will use the best 2 original clamshell fenders (passenger side from sedan and driver side from roadster) and modify front look and rear look to achieve my personal preference for what I think Chrysler should have done back in 1931 (some call it artistic license, others custom coach building, still others owner's choice). Others may be less kind!
So yesterday I took the spare passenger fender and trimmed it to approximate the shape and look I am going for. The black markings on the good fender show what I will likely eventually go with. I tried several curvilinear shapes before getting to what will likely be a close final version (see photos). I have an experienced panel beater/bodyman coming soon to give me his thoughts on degree of difficulty to modify them along the lines shown. It will mean a section of front frame horn will be exposed, but that was not uncommon in sports cars in the day.
The rear treatment will be more straight forward, means carrying the general curvature along side of fender around back end, holding it away from side apron a couple of inches, as shown in black marker on good fender. My first attempt shown affixed to car is too bobbed, and final proposal will extend largely to full length of original fender. Body man will also make side aprons to complete over all look. My plan is to use one side-mount spare, passenger side only (and I do have one spare wheel and one side-mount clamp), and use wheel well on driver side fender for a lidded tool tray, contoured to follow flow of fender, means cutting 3"-4" off bottom of well to create flat bottom. Today I plan to install hood temporarily in place and put on front bumper and back car out of garage so I can get a couple of better photos of overall look before making final decision. I also plan to revise illustration to have an overall concept to show bodyman.
This front fender issue has been plaguing me for 6 years, hope this is getting me closer to decision day. Any thoughts are welcome.