Luv2Wrench

Wow those look NICE!

That's a good option, do you have contact info?

I get what you're saying and he is in the camp of it will be used for parades. The reality for the area I live is that is all it could be used for. In the restoration I do have to keep in mind the next owner. With that said, the wear on the cylinders was 6 thou, which would fall in the hone it and ring it category but that's where the problem is. I can't get rings. I've done some more research and here is the problem with Model T pistons on Metz connection rods. The Metz connecting rod floats on the wrist pin. The wrist pin floats in the piston. It doesn't hit the cylinder walls because (and you'll love this) they added a fourth and very tall piston ring that conveniently covers the wrist pin ends. Your typical Model T piston doesn't have a way to secure the wrist pin because the connecting rod is secured to it and holds it in place. With a Model T piston and a Metz connecting rod the wrist pin is free to move around and leave a lasting impression on the cylinder walls. From what I've read there is, however, a rather simple solution. Teflon plugs on each side of the wrist pin. A slightly more complex solution is to machine a groove for a snap ring into the pistons. This is what another Metz owner did. Right now (and we know how fast these plans change...) I'm thinking of getting the Model T pistons and using the Metz connecting rods. I just need to find the teflon "buttons" which I don't think will be too hard. Joe: The issue with the crankshaft is what you said earlier, the flexibility. It is damn near a 90 degree angle from the journal and the connecting rod is nearly brushing it as is.

New problem. Model T rod bearing width is 1.50" which is about 25 thou wider than the Metz. I'll get a professional opinion but I don't see them grinding out of the crank giving how little area there is around the journal. Next plan is to find out how to adapt the modern aluminum Model T pistons to the Metz connecting rod. This has been done before but the person that did it had the machine shop do it so the details are a bit scarce. My machine shop guy said just run it as is and fix it if I don't like it.

Headed to the machine shop today to talk about getting the one cylinder sleeved, the others bored and crankshaft ground. I'm still hesitant to just go all in without knowing it is needed but at least I'll know what the costs are and when it could get done. I'll ask about the valves while I'm there. Update: Interesting visit. The issue with cylinder 1 is porosity and he thinks it might have left the factory that way as it is only 6 thou over original size. Rather than sleeving one and boring the others we're looking at sleeving all to 3.75" as if there's porosity in one place there might be others just waiting to ruin the day. Crankshaft is going to be polished for the mains and taken down to 1.238" for the rods. That will allow me to buy the forged rods with modern insert bearings. I'll need to go ahead and get these to verify they'll fit width wise. Per the valves, he can turn them down to fit and he'll ream the guides to fit. Might have an opening in a month so I've got a bit of time to decide though I am leaning towards that. It's going to be a lot of money but will basically be a new engine. Once again I'm putting more money in a car that I'll probably not get back, but she's 110 years old so maybe she's worth it.

Now that I've seen some pictures of two-piece valves, I'm pretty confident that what I have are one-piece. The head flows smoothly with a small radius into the stem.

So stupid question... if I get a Model T valve with a .312 stem do I get a .312 reamer? It seems like an obvious answer but I also see where in the valve description they say 1 thou clearance. Seems like you'd need a .313 reamer. It appears I could get a Model T valve, ream out my valve guides and have the valves ground down to fit or have the head ground to fit the valves. Or I could get an electric motor and a battery...

Head diameter: 1.454 Stem diameter: 0.3085 Stem length: 4.80 I measured stem length as the length from the bottom of the head to the end of the stem, ie; length of stem not including the thickness of the valve head.

I've heard that the two dots mean they are two part valves but I don't know for sure. I might spark test with one I'm not using because replacing these might be difficult as Model T valves do not fit. Is there another way to distinguish two piece valves? As quick Google say that the two dots are a common sign but people have found one piece valve with same dots (something about holding it for grinding) Update: Sparks from each end were the same, short red and not many of them.

Backup block cleaned up and the valves lapped. Very happy with how they fit. No pitting in the seats. Engine either had a valve job before it was taken out of service or no one ever drove it. Original markings on the deck which is pretty cool.

If I went with Model T pistons then I'd get forged connecting rods with modern insert bearings and have the crankshaft machined to fit them. One cylinder would be sleeved and the rest bored out. I can't do the crankshaft myself and I'm not really comfortable with performing my first sleeve and bore job on a rare 110 year old block. I'm more comfortable with fabricating things as I can do that over and over until I get it right. Given what I paid for the MG, I'd estimate $1200 for the machine work. Connecting rods are $495, pistons are $95, rings are $103 so that's about $2000 additional in the engine and I don't know that it needs it. My plan, at least right now, is to finish assembling the engine, check compression and see how it runs. If it needs all that work then I can get that started and move on to others things. The line for the machine shop is at least 6 months.

It appears the guides are pressed in though they are also cast iron. I tried pressing one out and even with the usual methods it didn't seem to be going anywhere. I get that, it has been in there for over a hundred years. I could definitely drill it out and then make replacements. The guides also hold the springs so just anything wouldn't work, I'd need to make them. Fortunately it appears the other block is fine and has minimal wear. Boring oversize is a bit of an issue. While I can get Model T pistons, they don't fit on the connecting rods. If I get Model T connecting rods then I will have fitment issues to work through there as well. Pistons, rings and connecting rods are also pretty expensive. I'm not cheap but I'll definitely have a compression check and/or blue smoke force me to down that path. I will be replacing tappets and springs. Can't afford to have a camshaft failure.

The seller's (Rocky) phone number is in the 4th picture in the first post. You've bought so many Nash Healey's lately I've taken measures to hide mine better.

Fresh off the momentum of getting the main bearing clearances set, I was looking forward to getting the block out of the "hot tank" (storage bin full of degreaser sitting outside in the sun) and getting it cleaned up, valves lapped and ready to go. Unfortunately as I removed the first valve, half of the valve guide fell out as well. As I stared in disbelief at what was left of the valve guide I also notice the block was cracked!!! I took the rest of the valves out trying to pretend I didn't see the crack. Two more guides also fell out as they too were cracked off where they go into the block. As I looked around the block some more I found two more cracks. It seems this engine which I was so thrilled to get because it seemed in such good condition is actually worse off than what I had to start with. Given the condition I'll most likely be going back to the original block. The issue with it seems pretty minor in comparison. It has a defect of sorts in one of the cylinders. I think it might have been a void in the original casting and they just used it anyway. I'm not sure how much trouble it might cause but at this point I think the best course of action is to finish building the engine and do a compression test. If that's acceptable then run it. If that still acceptable then she's good, if not then probably look for another block. Such fun.

Main bearing fitting is complete! Rear and center are 0.0015" and the front is 0.002". Once I get everything together and start assembling the engine I will probably play around with the shims on the front bearing and see if I can get it to 0.0015" as well. I targeted 0.0015" as that seemed to be the clearance others in the Model T world are striving for. It took a long time to get to that because my initial readings were at or under 1 thou. Unfortunately I didn't have a 5 tenths shim so I used the Timesaver. It may save you time but it still takes quite some time!! The block has been soaking all day and is looking pretty good. I'll let it soak for another day or so and then get it cleaned up. I measured the original camshaft and to my surprise it is in better condition than the "new" one. When I first bought the project 12 years ago I didn't know much about rebuilding engines. I remember measuring the lobes on the camshaft and noticing they were not the same and thinking it was worn out. I now know it is common for intake and exhaust to have different lifts. Measuring again knowing which lobes were intake and which were exhaust I found that the camshaft was pretty much spot on. So something I thought was garbage is actually in great condition! I do laugh at my old self and I'm sure there are those reading my posts that know 100x what I do and are laughing at the current me!! I have three different cylinder heads and each have their own problems. The original head has a chip in the casting at the water outlet. Possibly usable. The second one is in good condition but missing the water outlet casting. The third one has the water outlet casting but has a massive amount of weld down the middle were someone fixed a crack. I'm hesitant to use it. The simple solution is to take the outlet casting off and put it on the other one. Of course the bolts won't come out. I'll probably have to cut the heads off, drill out the bolts and then thread. At least I have the casting! All in all I think a good weekend!

I noticed that in the parts book as well. I think the rear cam bearing is part of the assembly that hold the shaft/gear. I bet it is pinned and I'll take a closer look.

Thanks for all the replies! While looking through the parts list I noticed that the bearings had a part number. I went and checked the bearings and sure enough. they all have part numbers on them. To be clear, the part number is on the bearing material, not the cap. As such this confirms my suspicion that these were insert bearings and not poured. With that bit of info I decided to check the fit of my original crankshaft. I remember when taking it apart it had a bunch of homemade shims between the to halves. When I took the crankshaft out of the "new" engine I noticed the shims it had were obviously factory made. There were also less shims. My guess is that the bearings were undersized from the factory and you used shims (also a part number, sold by the dozen it says) to space them out to get the correct clearance. Armed with that information (and some correct shims) I tried fitting the center bearing of the original engine. In my head I could also hear Joe saying "use Timesaver to get the fit just right" and so I did. After an hour I had it right at 0.0015 I can do the same for the front and rear. I checked the fit of the connecting rods (and thus pistons) from the "new" engine with the crankshaft and found they fit fine and I can get a perfect fit by changing shims and Timesaver. It will probably take a full day or two but I should be able to get the clearances just about perfect. As of right now (and the plans are still fluid) the resulting engine will be my original engine with the "new" engine supplying the cylinder block, valves, pistons and connecting rods/bearings. I'll get new lifters and springs. This solves the oil pump gear problem as well as the deteriorating timing gear. A nice side effect of this is that it preserves the original engine (in a way). In addition, the car is titled using the engine number that is stamped on the crankcase. I'm sure my engine guy will blow this plan up on Monday when he says block needs to be bored.

I hadn't thought of sacrificing the shaft. I'm not sure there's room to do that but I do like that plan. The additional problem with the pin is that I have to do it twice as I'm swapping the gear. If I could get the whole assembly out as a unit I could definitely repair or make a new gear. I don't think I can get the assembly out without breaking it and/or the crankcase.

A couple edits/additions to the above posts. I succeeded in removing the camshaft without breaking anything. That's the good news. Unfortunately that's about all the good news. The bearing is not poured in rather the assembly itself is the bearing. The end of the assemble that extends outside the crankcase is filled with lead as a final assembly step. The solid timing gear I have does not fit the crankshaft. Apparently the crankshaft was changed to be tapered on the end. To use the original timing gear I would need to swap the camshaft as well. The original camshaft doesn't look bad but the "new" one certainly looks better. I've tried repeatedly to get the pin out and have so far not been able to do so. There isn't room to drill it out, at least with the tools I have. Options now are: 1) Get a 90 degree adapter for my Dremel and attempt to drill out the pin. If successful, proceed as planned. Still have the timing gear issue. 2) Repair the gear in situ. I might be able to build up the area with something (silver solder, bronze ??) and then file it in place. Downsides to this is the heat in the area might wreak havoc. Obviously filing the new teeth isn't going to be easy either. If this works I still have the timing gear issue. I could try cutting a new one or try swapping the crankshaft. 3) Use the original crankcase, bearings, crankshaft, camshaft and the "new" cylinder block, connecting rods, pistons, etc. Obviously that means the crankshafts must have the same dimensions and the bearing clearances be acceptable. While this would be a backup, I'm going to put the old bearing back in and do some measurements. 4) Use the original engine. Bore it out, new aluminum pistons, connecting rods, grind crankshaft, pour new bearings, etc, etc.

Funny you should mention that... It appears that the part I need to replace (the beveled gear and shaft) rides in a casting that also functions as the outside of the rear camshaft bearing. I don't think the gear/shaft will come out while the assembly is in the crankcase. I'm also not sure how to get the assembly out of the crankcase. The crankcase is aluminum and the assembly is cast iron. Hopefully these would not be brazed together? My thought is that the crankcase is heated and then the assembly is pressed in. I guess I'll need to heat it up and press it out. At this time, however, it appears that I will need to pour the rear bearing. I'll know more once (if) I get the assembly out. When I melted out the babbitt in the original engine I assume the procedure was to smoke the end of the camshaft, insert it and then pour the babbitt. I don't think that's the case because when I look up in the casting I can see a hole for an oil passage. There were be no way to add that once it was poured (well, no easy way). I assume these were poured outside of the engine, oil passage way created and then the assembly pressed in. Such fun! Here's a picture. I need to remove the gear on the end and replace. The gear is secured to the shaft with a pin, maybe tapered or maybe not. Not sure if there's enough room in there to remove the pin. The picture is the "good" one. The most desirable process would be remove the entire assembly from both crankcases, switch the gear and then re-install. Among the concerns are that attempting to drive the pin out with it in place with will break the casting. Not sure if I can get support behind it.

The front suspension has been taken apart and put away. The wheel bearings looks very good and I'm considering reusing them instead of my previous plan to convert to a modern Timken tapered bearing. I think the plan for the rear wheel bearings will stay the same. I've gone through most of the engine and there's a lot to like. I measured the clearances on the main bearings and found they were between 2.5 to 2 thousandths. Connecting rods were similar though a little closer to 2.5 to 3 thou. Interestingly all the caps still had shims so my guess is it was rebuilt and then not many miles put on it. The bearing surfaces looked great and the crank even better. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 are very nice. Cylinder 2 has some issues and I'll need to check with my engine guy to understand options. All but one of the tappets move freely. While last tappet is stuck I have managed to move it back and forth a bit. A bigger issue is that a couple teeth on the gear off the camshaft that drives the oil pump are broken so there's a dead spot. I'm 90% sure that it will need to be replaced. The good news is that I have one, the bad news is the camshaft needs to come out and that's a bit more involved than on a more modern engine. Speaking of the camshaft, the timing gear is an interesting combo of a metal gear in the middle with fiber gears on the outside... like a sandwich. Of course the outer fiber gears are missing some teeth. I do have another gear that is solid cast iron and hopefully I can swap it out. The goal tomorrow is get the camshaft out without breaking anything, remove the valves and then get everything cleaned up. I'll measure the cylinder bore as well as take some measurements from the crankshaft so that I can look about getting connecting rods, piston and rings should I need to bore out the cylinders to address the issues in the number 2 cylinder. Also the number 2 piston has a stuck oil ring so I need to get that moving again. I'll make a list of what's needed to start putting it back together and have a plan for that. Some parts I ordered for a carb rebuild came in today so I'll also try and get it rebuilt this weekend. I'm feeling pretty optimistic but there are still some critical challenges to overcome so I'm trying not to get too excited.

Shop reconfiguration complete! Everything has gone better than planned and I've accomplished more than I set out to. Things have gone well enough that I've decided to do a bit more a little at a time going forward. The engine and front chassis that I bought a year or so ago is now in the shop. The current plan is to go through this engine and do a full evaluation. I believe the engine is in pretty good condition based on a quick look I took when I first bought it. Should that be the case I'll go ahead and do the rebuild.

It is too bad my die filer weighs so much or I could send it up to you for tweaking those square holes. As it is, I'm sure you'll get them close enough that just a touch up with a file will be plenty. Your test runs are looking great!

Inside of the extension is basically done!! I need to wire the 220 outlet and add some trim to the doorway. I hope to start moving things in this weekend. If all goes well I should start working on the Metz by the end of the month. Interior size is just under 160 sq ft and while I'm sure it'll fill up way too fast, it is going to be great to have. I'm super excited!!

Outstanding on all points, if I were any more behind that I'd be there helping you clean the house. As it is... I'm cleaning my house.