Mars

[Mars]

Looking for a source for front end suspension parts for my 1930 cf 4dr sedan. I don't know if other applications will fit. Thanks 

[keiser31]

Rare Parts....some stuff is not listed and a call to them may help more....http://rareparts.com/

[Spinneyhill]

Which parts? I have found it rare to get everything from one source.

 

By suspension, I take it you mean the spring shackles? Which ones do you have, "silent block" or a greaseable system?

Edited April 28, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Mars]

They're not greasable. I assume that's correct, but maybe not. The 28-33 master parts book only has greasable pictured. So not sure. I'm also looking for drag link and tie rod ends and ujoints. I'd like to have them when I need them. Thanks for the reply.

[Spinneyhill]

If your drag link is the same as the DC (and it probably is), it has two springs in each end. Most people convert them to Chev ends - same size ball on the steering arm - with just one spring, as they were later in Dodges. Clearly, The Filling Station will sell you Chev parts. I bought mine from Then & Now Automotive (Old Parts Tom is the man to speak to), including a new ball for the front end of it. Here are the parts in the front end.

 

With just one spring in the end, the end can be shorter. You need to keep the length the same between ball centres, of course. The ball on the end of the steering arm may need work too: there are topics on these fora about it, in Technical and probably Our Cars and Restoration Projects. For an example, see Taylormade's topic about Daphne in the Dodge and Dodge Brothers forum (on p.51 et al).

For the spring shackle bushes, presumably you have the "Silent Block" bushes. They consist of a metal sleeve that pushes into the spring eye, an inner metal sleeve of ID 5/8" that fits on the spring bolt, and a vulcanised rubber bush between the two metal parts. For them to work, the inner must be held into the chassis mount so it cannot rotate, i.e. very very tight on the 5/8" UNF bolt, which is tightened with the vehicle on its wheels in running trim. I have a 1935 Mackay catalogue from Australia; they list them, nos. S3 and S4. You need 10 S3 and 2 S4 bushes. The S4 go on the rear spring front (i.e. into the spring).

 

S3 (10 required):

OS is 1.406-1.410" OD x 14G x 2.26-2.24" long.

IS is 7/8" OD x 0.625-0.629"ID x 2.569-2.554" long.

 

S4 (2 required):

OS 1.500-1.504 x 14G x 2.260-2.240"

IS 7/8 x 0.625-0.629 x 2.569-2.554".

 

S3 were also used on Chrysler 1934-35 CU, CV, CX, Airflow and Imperial with Silent U shackles plus Dodge DO, KCD late 1933; Hupmobile 1935 521 J, 527 T; Plymouth PC, PD, PF.

S4 were only used on CF and DC.

 

I have no idea where you will find these. I used Daihatsu DV2 DV8 commercials 1974-77, skimmed and shortened, to make the S3 bushes. I got cheeky for the S4 and wrote to Mackay asking for the dimensions and when they replied (yes, they replied!) they said they had some S4 bushes in stock so I bought them. I see in the catalogue they also list a rubber washer for each end, to fit between the outer sleeve and the frame - I only found that catalogue after I had done the job. Next time....

 

The tie rod ends come up from time to time on ePay. I bought a pair a few months ago and so did @ArticiferTom for a UF10. The DUFOR catalogue (again, Australian) lists them as TE2, Dodge part number 52293 & 4, left and right. They fit

1930-32 Dodge DD, DH, DL (6s), DC, DG, DK (8s), 1933 DP, DQ, 1934 DR, DS, 1935 DU, 1936-38 D2, D3, D5, D8;

Dodge Truck 1930-31 Merchant's Express UF10, F10, 1/2 ton; 1931-32 UF10, F10 (later ones); 1933-39 HC, HCL, KC, KCL, LC, MC, MD15-16, MD20-21, RC, RD10-11, RD15-16, RD20-21, TC, TD15, TD20-21

DeSoto 1929-32 K, CK, SA, SC, CF-8; 1935 SF, Airstream.

Chrysler 1927-29 50, 52; 1929-33 66, CJ, CM, CI, CO (6s), CD, CP, CQ Imperial, CT Royal (8s); 1934-35 CA, CB, C6 (6s), CZ, Airstream (8).

Essex 1927-31 Super 6, Challenger 6, Mascot

Fargo Truck 1929-30 KC, QC, Packet; 1938-39 FG1, FH1; FG2-20, FG2-36, FH2-20, FH2-33 (part no. 951297/8)

Graham 1930 Special 6, 45 for 1000 cars;

Graham-Paige 1928-30 610, 612, 614, 615

Hudson 1930-31 Great 8 and Greater 8

International Truck 1928-30 Special Delivery, 6 Speed Special; 1931-34 A1 (early), A2 (early), B2 (early).

Nash 1929-32Light 6, Std 6, series 400, 420-428, 660, 960, Big 6, 1060, 970, 1070.

Oldsmobile 1931 F31

Plymouth 1929-39Q, U, 30U, PA, PB, PC, PD, PG, PE, PF, PJ, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, PT50, PT57, PT81

Rugby 1923-25 all.

Willys Truck 1930-32 C101, C131, C157.

 

All that should make it easy for you. The specs. are female 3/4 x 16 socket thread; ball bolt taper is 0.703-0.609 over 3/4"; bolt size 1/2x20.

 

Let us know where you get things from.

 

[Spinneyhill]

U-joints have a 3-5/8" diameter flange and are 3" long. The body esp. comes up on eBay from time to time. I have the interchanges for these too but my typing is worn out for today.

[Spinneyhill]

5 hours ago, Mars said:

I'd like to have them when I need them.

Keep the grease up to them! Have a good look at the drag link ends; I recommend you disassemble them and clean out the crud. If needed make new leather (or ?) covers to keep the crud out. I also made a a new metal retainer for one of the leather seals.

[Mars]

Lots of helpful info. What is it that wears out on the drag link? The ball itself?

[Spinneyhill]

6 hours ago, Mars said:

Lots of helpful info. What is it that wears out on the drag link? The ball itself?

Everything. The springs lose their strength and develop a permanent set. The ball and sockets wear and the ball might finish up nearly able to come out of the end because it has worn the opening. I suggest you take yours off and clean it out before refitting with new grease. You will then know how it works, where you need to get grease and it will be clean inside - no grinding paste working away on it. Dirt is harder than steel! Be aware those are big springs and there is a lot of compressive stress on the balls. Make yourself a "screwdriver" for the plugs too else you will destroy the slot in it. I used a piece of mild flat steel.

[Mars]

Is this thing gonna "explode" when I take it apart? Springs flying?

[StillOutThere]

You are taking all tension off the springs as you disassemble.   Will not be a problem.

 

[Spinneyhill]

No. Just make a "screwdriver" for the plug and unscrew it. The compression is off before the plug is out.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Mars]

Inspected drag link,pitman arm, and tie rod ends. Didn't take apart but everything was intact and not loose. Greased joints. I think I'll call them ok. I don't think they're causing a problem. I do get the occasional shimmy but these components seem ok to me. Would worn shackle bushings cause this? Jacked up the wheels and not much movement. Alignment? Thanks 

[Spinneyhill]

Shimy is castor isn't it? An alignment will help you there. Toe in might need adjusting too. Castor is set with wedges between the front axle and springs.

 

Good to hear the steering stuff is in good shape. Do you have any free play in the steering wheel?

[Mars]

Very little. Do you think there's a video on that shimming process? I'll look.

[keiser31]

Any alignment guy worth his weight should have the specs on your front axle. I went around the corner to a local shop and they aligned my 1931 DB. Found out there were TWO wedges on each side of the front axle and once the extras were removed, the car steers straight, true and does not shimmy.

[Mars]

Very encouraging,thanks.

[Mars]

I have specs for a Desoto six, code sa. Do you think their the same ? The book is dated May, 1931.

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, Mars said:

I have specs for a Desoto six, code sa. Do you think their the same ? The book is dated May, 1931.

Since Spinneyhill listed the interchange numbers above, it looks like 1931 SA has some of the same parts and maybe the same alignment specs.

[Spinneyhill]

All DeSotos 1928-33 have the same king pins and bushes, along with Chrysler 52, 66 CC, CJ, CM, CI, CO; Dodge DD, DC, DH, DG, DL; Plymouth Q, U, 30U, PA, PB.

Does that mean they have the same castor? No. I suspect that will vary because the wheel sizes are different and the distance from the centre of the tread to the projection of the king pin axis to the ground will vary with wheel size. Should that distance be roughly the same? I don't know.

 

Riley Autoparts web site says that same pin fits Chry 6 '40-48, Chry 8 and Imp. 51-55 (some with manual steering), DeSoto 37-40 all, 41-55 manual steer, Dodge 39-54 all, 55-56 all exc. 56 w. D-500 body.

 

Toe in 1/8" (3.2 mm) 9" above floor. Castor is not given in the Instruction Book.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Mars]

I guess I need to put out the call for alignment info for 30 Desoto cf, 4dr sedan, wood wheels. Thanks 

[Spinneyhill]

What is the castor figure you have for 1931 SA?

 

I note both the CF and SA have 19" wheels.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Mars]

1 1/2-2 degrees 

[Spinneyhill]

From what I can see, that seems to be about what they were at that time. The hot rodders talk of something like 4+^o for beam axles but they have usually messed with things plus they have smaller wheels.