Electrical Problems:Locks & Mirrors

Both the door locks and power mirrors have suddenly quit working on my '90 Reatta Convertible. I've checked the fuses and they're OK . Anyone have any suggestions ? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Do you have lights in the vanity mirrors? Will the trunk unlock with the key?

Do you have lights in the vanity mirrors? Will the trunk unlock with the key?

Hello-

New owner here. This is a great community - been reading it every chance I get. Lots of good people with a wealth of knowledge, that is for certain.

Been searching through everything and came across this old post. I am having the exact same issue with my "new" 90 coupe, and the answer to the questions Barney asked the OP are NO.

That being said ... need some advice on how would I interpret this and begin my adventure into the repair?

Thanks Much

KF

1990 Reatta Coupe

Need to check the body fuse #2 in the fuse panel. This would also take out all the courtesy too though.

If that's OK, all but the loss of vanity lights in the sunvisors could be caused by a defective splice in the orange wires under the drivers seat.

Need to check the body fuse #2 in the fuse panel. This would also take out all the courtesy too though.

If that's OK, all but the loss of vanity lights in the sunvisors could be caused by a defective splice in the orange wires under the drivers seat.

OK Thanks. I currently do not have any of the following working:

Power Mirrors

Courtesy Lights

Dome Light

Power Door Locks

Alarm System

Trunk Lock - Rear (the glove box button works)

I was digging deeper into this last night and if my thinking is right it concurs with what you have told me. That fuse #2 controls all of those functions.

Best

KF

Yes, it will also take out the two innermost turn signal lamps in the rear.

The trunk lid release will should work with the button or the remote, just not the key.

Well- I did some analysis/investigation. Fuse #2 is fine. To reiterate, the following are currently inoperable:

Power Mirrors

Dome Light

Lights on bottom of doors

rear trunk lock

power door locks

alarm system

lights on door handles.

Am I to understand that there is a relay that needs to be checked in addition to the fuse #2, or do I need to go directly to checking the splices under the passenger seat? My gut feeling is that there is not an issue with the splices as this vehicle never saw winter, and was garaged its entire life in a heated environment. Don't want to take the seat out if there is a relay that could be checked and causing my problems.

I downloaded the manual for the 90 model as well but am not an expert in electrical diagnosis....at least not yet.

Any and all opinions appreciated as I continue to search through the archives. However, sometimes it is nice to get an answer due to time savings.

Much Obliged

KF

1990 Reatta Coupe

For the dome lights I would start by checking to see if they are getting 12 volts. Keep this in mind when testing the lights (and a lot of other electrical items on your Reatta): The lights should have power, 12 volts, going to the light anytime the battery is connected. The light is controlled by the BCM supplying a ground to the light to turn it on and off via the interior light relay.

Your first step on troubleshooting the lights is to remove the dome light cover and the bulb and see if you have 12 volts between one of the terminals and a good chassis ground (not the other terminal). Do you?

There is no single relay that affects all these circuits.

Are we to understand that the courtesy lights under the dash illuminate, it's just the ones you listed that don't?

Do you have a voltmeter or test light?

Still leaning towards a bad splice(s), question is is it on the hot side or the ground side. Makes a difference which seat has to come out.

The only interior lights that work (not counting the instrument panel) are the gear shift selection lights. They illuminate when the headlights are on.

The slider switch will dim/brighten the instrument panel when the headlights are on. They do nothing when the headlights are off. It will not turn the dome light (or any other lights for that matter) on. The instrument panel cannot be dimmed without the headlights on, and they are quite bright.

I was investigating the interior and I noticed that the dash pad (the front plastic part that contains the defroster vent) is loose on the right window side - like it was taken off and a tab or something broke off when reinstalling it. So I am wondering if anything was done in there trying to address some issue - possibly this one.

I am going to test for positive on the lights and see if there is voltage for starters.

Would a defective photocell cause any of these issues directly, or indirectly for that matter?

Thanks again for responding to me about this stuff. I will document all of this as I go thru it and post it to my website as it could possibly assist other folks as well.

KF

Oh - and the light under the hood illuminates when the headlights are on - which I believe is correct based on my research.

Thanks again for responding to me about this stuff. I will document all of this as I go thru it and post it to my website as it could possibly assist other folks as well.

KF

the URL is ohiotrips.com. However it is not available at this time as I am re-doing everything using a new content management system. I do not have any other information about Reatta's available at this time, however I do have some pertaining to Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia campers - as I own one.

Go ahead and test for 12 volts at the dome light and report back.

Think you have multiple problems, but photocell is not one of them.

Swap the courtesy light relay with one of its neighbors and see if anything changes. It's relay "B" in the micro relay center in trunk on the right wheelhouse.

I had exactly the same problem with 2 of my convertibles, door locks and power windows. The dealer fixed the first one, and I fixed the second this spring. Take out the driver's seat and pull up the carpet. You will see a plastic "duct" that is taped shut with plastic tape. Cut the tape and open the duct (mine was filled with water, maybe yours is too). Through this duct runs a 2" bundle of wires and there are several "junctions" where anywhere from 3 to 10 wires are joined together with compression fittings. You will find one (or more) of these junctions has deteriorated. Be very careful to label the wires that connect to each other BEFORE you move anything. My junctions were so badly corroded that they disintegrated when I tried to move wires. I cut each wire back to solid wire and spliced extensions on to each of them, then re-did the junctions. it is a nice afternoon's work, but not difficult.

Go ahead and test for 12 volts at the dome light and report back.

Think you have multiple problems, but photocell is not one of them.

Swap the courtesy light relay with one of its neighbors and see if anything changes. It's relay "B" in the micro relay center in trunk on the right wheelhouse.

12 volts at the fuse panel

0 volts at the dome light

With so many things not working, the splices under the passanger seat should be looked at.

Remove the passanger seat and door sill plate, with some tugging you can move the carpet out of the way.

There will be a plastic channel running front to back with a "T" coming from the console.

Inside you will find many wires, look for the groups that are terminated with black tape, inside you will find a steel crimp that has rusted and electrical contact has been lost. You need to cut off the crimp, clean the wires, ideally tin them then use a new crimp terminal and recrimp.

I use the belt and suspenders approach......after I crimp them then I solder the crimp in place.

You will find about 5 of these crimps with anywhere from 5 to 8 wires being terminated at the crimp. Do all of them since you have the seat out.

The attached photo shows the wires and you can also see that this cars has standing water in the plastic channel.

Well, we know we have one problem on the hot side, but this circuit isn't easy to get at.

There are only three points of interest going from the #2 fuse to the dome light.

There is a splice S209 behind/under the glove box that could explain a lot of the problems, but because of its location it would rarely go bad.

Then is there is connector C210 pin B lower right side of instrument panel, and the there is splice S310 under the headliner that splits the power off to the vanity lights in both of the sun visors and the dome light.

So see if the lights in either sun visor work which would implicate the splice above the headliner.

If neither of these work either, I'd see if the orange wire at pin B of C210 has power. If there isn't 12 volts there, then S209 is bad and you will have fun getting to this splice to repair it.

Well, we know we have one problem on the hot side, but this circuit isn't easy to get at.

There are only three points of interest going from the #2 fuse to the dome light.

There is a splice S209 behind/under the glove box that could explain a lot of the problems, but because of its location it would rarely go bad.

Then is there is connector C210 pin B lower right side of instrument panel, and the there is splice S310 under the headliner that splits the power off to the vanity lights in both of the sun visors and the dome light.

So see if the lights in either sun visor work which would implicate the splice above the headliner.

If neither of these work either, I'd see if the orange wire at pin B of C210 has power. If there isn't 12 volts there, then S209 is bad and you will have fun getting to this splice to repair it.

Sun Visor Lights do not work - so we can rule out anything under the headliner.

Does the dash need to be removed to get to S209?

thx

FYI, the wire duct under the driver's seat on my convertible was filled with water. The splices were all destroyed. The car is garaged at all times, and has not seen rain in 10 years. It is stored in my garage all winter. There is NO drain in the floorboard and the carpet is vinyl-backed so no evaporation is possible. I don't know where the water came from, but, once there, it was trapped.

FYI, the wire duct under the driver's seat on my convertible was filled with water. The splices were all destroyed. The car is garaged at all times, and has not seen rain in 10 years. It is stored in my garage all winter. There is NO drain in the floorboard and the carpet is vinyl-backed so no evaporation is possible. I don't know where the water came from, but, once there, it was trapped.

Well, I guess I will start here then and check it out. You have a 90 as well correct? It seems as if some folks say to take out the passenger seat and some say the driver seat. Is it the driver seat on 90-91 models and passenger on the 88-89 models?

Thx

Splices are under both seats. You might find this tutorial on my website useful:

Wire Splice Repair - Reatta Owners Journal

Well, we know we have one problem on the hot side, but this circuit isn't easy to get at.

There are only three points of interest going from the #2 fuse to the dome light.

There is a splice S209 behind/under the glove box that could explain a lot of the problems, but because of its location it would rarely go bad.

Then is there is connector C210 pin B lower right side of instrument panel, and the there is splice S310 under the headliner that splits the power off to the vanity lights in both of the sun visors and the dome light.

So see if the lights in either sun visor work which would implicate the splice above the headliner.

If neither of these work either, I'd see if the orange wire at pin B of C210 has power. If there isn't 12 volts there, then S209 is bad and you will have fun getting to this splice to repair it.

Further research seems to indicate that ALL of my issues are on circuits that go thru S209. I think that is what I need to initially investigate before doing anything else.

Looks like that one is inside of a channel behind the dash........I see why you said it would be fun..........I also have a feeling that the PO may have started investigating that and gave up.......

hmmmm

thx

You might want to confirm that splice first by checking the orange wire at pin B on C210 first. Much easier to get to and if voltage is there then S209 is good. If not then S209 is the problem.

I would pull the glove box first and see if you can get at that channel thru there or up from under the dash before pulling the dash out.

Agree this one splice could explain most if not all your problems. It would take a couple of splices under the seats to explain lock and lights, but they would not explain no 12 volts at the dome and vanity lights.

As a general rule, the splices under the drivers seat carry 12 volts in the circuits, and the ones on the passenger's side are the circuit grounds. But pays to check the diagrams first, especially in a convertable.

You might want to confirm that splice first by checking the orange wire at pin B on C210 first. Much easier to get to and if voltage is there then S209 is good. If not then S209 is the problem.

I would pull the glove box first and see if you can get at that channel thru there or up from under the dash before pulling the dash out.

Agree this one splice could explain most if not all your problems. It would take a couple of splices under the seats to explain lock and lights, but they would not explain no 12 volts at the dome and vanity lights.

As a general rule, the splices under the drivers seat carry 12 volts in the circuits, and the ones on the passenger's side are the circuit grounds. But pays to check the diagrams first, especially in a convertable.

Yes, that does make good sense...I do need to do that. Seems as if there are three circuits originating from s209. I do tend to agree with your thought that it would be unlikely that there would be an issue in the location where s209 is.

One way or the other it is getting corrected. Thanks to everyone for the assistance

KF

checked the C210 and no voltage there....looks like the s209 needs to be confirmed. Also going to pull the seats for good measure and check all the splices under there as well.

Regarding the mini relay panel in the trunk, which one is "B"?

Just determined that the chimes are intermittent as well.

Also, The Door Ajar warning light disappeared for a while yesterday, but returned after a while.

Thanks

KF

Splices are under both seats. You might find this tutorial on my website useful:

Wire Splice Repair - Reatta Owners Journal

thats very helpful.btw auto parts stores now have insulated crimp connectors with heat scrink ends.

I was looking thru all of the receipts that came with the car - I am lucky that I have every one - and the PO replaced the radio at one time. I am wondering if he inadvertently messed something up with the wiring which is the cause of my electrical woes which are well documented in this thread.

Like I stated before, C210 has no power so I have to check the S209 splice, however, the point was well made that this would be unusual due to the location - in the dash where it would be hard pressed to get wet and hence corroded like the under seat splices.

Thinking about removing the radio and having a look back there. Does not seem like removing it would be that big of a deal.... I am assuming that the fragile plastic dash cover has to come off. I noticed some hairline cracks in it - probably from the PO removing it to install the replacement radio.

just rambling with the thoughts ......

i prefer to pull out the driver seat and remove the console side panel.

I am surprised that anyone else has any Fuse No. 2 problems as I have enough by myself to eliminate anyone else from having any.

I have a dead short in Fuse No. 2 and have been completely frustrated in getting access to Splice 209. My problem should be relatively simple as I have disconnected connector 200 and that eliminates circuitry following it.

The Fuse No. 2 circuitry remaining is limited but the ones going Splice 209 defy a complete check.

I continue working with the most valuable help from McReatta and will get it worked out sometime and will post what I have found. Do not hold your breath as it takes a lot of time!

Kingsley

'89 Coupe, 90 Coupe

Member BCA and Reatta Division

www.reattaspecialtyparts.com offering two models of headlight crank arm and parts kit as well as convertible sun visor clips

....I have a dead short in Fuse No. 2 and have been completely frustrated in getting access to Splice 209. My problem should be relatively simple as I have disconnected connector 200 and that eliminates circuitry following it.

The Fuse No. 2 circuitry remaining is limited but the ones going Splice 209 defy a complete check.

Just to confirm...are you saying that in your case Fuse #2 keeps blowing? And you can't determine the cause? And you disconnected Connector 200 to eliminate some of the variables in the circuit?

Removing the radio and checking behind it might be a very good idea. The orange wire from fuse 2 going up to splice 209 may be passing thru that area and might be being interfered with by the radio, bracket or mounting screw. I would imagine that it would be in a bundle of wires running thru there somewhere.

If you can't figure out a way to get to splice 209, it's worth a try. If you have the CD player, might want to check behind it too.

Kurt Franz - you have are correct. Just as soon as you insert the fuse, you can see the flash as it blows. The situation I have is really puzzling as I have reduced the circuitry that could be of risk to the bearest minimum and nothing changes.

I have to do a double check, but seemingly have found a signifcant difference between the actual wiring of Connector 200 with what is shown in the FSM schematics. Being color blind does not help the situation either. Fortunately, I am beyond being frustrated but have been reinfused and will find the problem somehow.

Bear in mind that I am working with a '90 coupe and the convertible wiring is a bit more involved although the basics are close.

Kingsley

www.reattaspecialtyparts.com - offering the best in two models of Reatta crank arm parts kits as well as an ABS replication of the convertible sun visor clips.

Kurt Franz - you have are correct. Just as soon as you insert the fuse, you can see the flash as it blows. The situation I have is really puzzling as I have reduced the circuitry that could be of risk to the bearest minimum and nothing changes.

I have to do a double check, but seemingly have found a signifcant difference between the actual wiring of Connector 200 with what is shown in the FSM schematics. Being color blind does not help the situation either. Fortunately, I am beyond being frustrated but have been reinfused and will find the problem somehow.

Bear in mind that I am working with a '90 coupe and the convertible wiring is a bit more involved although the basics are close.

Kingsley

www.reattaspecialtyparts.com - offering the best in two models of Reatta crank arm parts kits as well as an ABS replication of the convertible sun visor clips.

Kingsley-

On my 90 coupe I do not see a orange lead going into c200. I see a yellow one though... Are you seeing the same thing?

Regardless - I have all winter to figure it out - it is simply a toy that I will only drive on Sundays.....

KF

KF - here are some inconsistencies I see in my '90 coupe Connector 200

In cavity A 1, pin half, I have two orange wires tieing into one 1/4" pin. Socket half is the same. Power in comes from Fuse No.15. Cell 11, Circuit 740 which is a Riviera Bose circuit and it is hot with the key in run.

In cavity G 1, one yellow wire (10 gauge) working through pin and socket, Cell110, Circuit 18. Only problem is that Cavity G 1 is per the schematics for C 200 supposed to be orange/black, Cell 130, Circuit 60 and what I have in G 1 is supposed to be in Cavity G4.

However, none of the the above relates to my Fuse No. 2 problem.

If I separate the pins and sockets in C 200 and do the same for C 210 and C360, I am left with only the left and right footwell courtesy light circuits that could be problematical UNLESS I have a dead short somewhere in the circuitry going into the three connectors mentioned just above. All of the circuitry in this paragraph work through S209 immediately afer the fuse and as I mentioned before S209 almost defies checking out.

One has to call upon one's inner strengths!

Kingsley

www.reattaspecialtyparts.com Two models of headlight motor crank arm parts kits and convertible sun visor clips in all 5 Colors!

Should be an orange wire at pin A6 of C200.

Also one at pin B of C210.

Both of these orange wires come from that elusive splice 209.

McReatta - My C200 has pins/sockets at A 1 through A 4 and one at A 7.

Must be I have a one of a kind!

Kingsley

Hmmmm... Your supposed to have wires at all 9 A positions on the socket side and all but A1 and A9 on the pin side. Both 90 and 91 FSMs agree, so apparently a not a mid year change.

On the pin side you should start in position 2 with a pink wire, then 3 orange/black, 4 gray, 6 orange, 7 light green, and another 8 orange/black.

Which ones are you missing?

I just encountered this problem:

Power Mirrors & power door locks not working.

These others... not realized until later.

Dome Light

Lights on bottom of doors

rear trunk lock

alarm system

lights on door handles, all not working.

Locks, doors as well as trunk, also not working with remote.

It all started sometime while I was working on the passenger door lock linkage and the console wiring at the same time. I had the door panel off to lube the linkage and repair the door panel attachment brackets. I also replaced the door lock switch assembly with another one because the slider part was broken. While waiting for some adhesive to set, I tore into the console, pulled the window and mirror switches out and disassembled them to clean because they were sticking due to spilled stuff gunking them up. After reassembling the console I found that the mirrors wouldn't work. After much fussing I decided to go back to the door and get it back together. While putting the door lock switch back on, I found that the door locks didn't work on the passenger door or the drivers door. Now, I'm wondering what the hell I did to the wiring. It's getting late so I decide to put everything back together and attack the issues another day.

I come in from the garage and decide to check out this board. The very first post at the top of the list when I logged on was this one. I didn't realize I also had the other items not working until reading it and checked them.

The suggestion by McReatta to check fuse #2 was the solution to this problem. I replaced the 20amp fuse and all is well with the world. Even the remote works once again. God I love this site!

To those others who are still having problems... was there any work performed in either the doors or the console of your cars prior to the power outage? Maybe the short your involved with lies in those areas. Just a thought.

Also... pardon my grammar and syntax as I'm very tired. At least the spell checker is working. Good thing too!

This morning, in the interest of accuracy, I added this to the post.

I stated earlier that this all started with my working on the consol and passenger door but it really began with my working on the driver’s side 16way seat switch. Covered a lot of ground Thursday) Some of the functions weren’t working so I decided to install one I’d rebuilt some years ago. Once installed, the rebuilt unit wouldn’t make the seat go back. All other functions were OK. I pulled it apart again and again and again at least a dozen times and could only make it work worse not better. I eventually succumbed to rooting around my junk pile and found some other seat switches. Not pretty but, working switches. I really didn’t want to think that I had failed in rebuilding the switch. I dissembled the ugly ones, compared the two and found nothing awry with my rebuild. Even so, I chose to clean up and lube one of the ugly ones. Installed it and now all the functions work as they should. I bring this up because as I was trying to get the original rebuilt switch to work, a couple of times there was an arcing inside the switch while manipulating the buttons. Naturally, I immediately pulled the switch each time this occurred but perhaps this arching (shorting) caused the issues with the power outages elsewhere in the car. I can’t say for certain the chain of events leading up to my discovery of the power outages, but I had to add this to make this post complete. It’s 5:27am and I gotta get off to work or be late. Have a great day y’all.

BUMP.

McReatta/KF - First, please note that I have revised my post No. 36 above to indicate that I have a pin at A 7, Connector 200, for a total of 5 pin in row A.

This is just an indication of how easy it is to make a mistake when viewing one of the connectors from an unusual angle.

A bit further, I have taken pictures separately of the pin and socket halves of my Connector 200 and hopefully can get them attached. Note that the very light picture is that of the pin half. The picture with the dark color half is the socket half and the light one is the pin half.

I have as yet not tried to match colors with the pin position but will do so when I can. You can see that Pin A1 of the pin half has two ORN tying into it and he socket half has two ORN coming out. Also note that G 1 pin and socket have a large yellow whereas the schematic would indicate that this should be working out of G 4.

I do not feel that any of this relates to my No. 2 Fuse problem but I am just commenting for the benefit of anyone that has an interest in this circuitry.

Unable to get the pictures on at this time but will continue to try.

Kingsley

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