1923 Buick Roadster 23-4-39

[DaveAspi]

--I may posted this in the wrong forum earlier--- sorry if this is redundant...

I have recently (yesterday), purchased a 1923 Buick Roadster model 23-4-"39"(stamped on the plate on the firewall). I was fortunate enough to purchase this from the orignal family, which bought the car back in 1923. Beautiful condition for its age. Can anyone point me in the right direction for info on this model? I have found info on 23-4-"34" model, but not this model. It is not even listed in the original Buick Ref. book. From what the owners told me, this was a late year model produced Nov/Dec of 1923 with luxury items added on. This is all new to me. I usually restore Muscle-car era cars. So I have the spectrum of Buicks a 1923 and 1970 Buick GS 455. any info will be appreciated. Thanks

[DaveAspi]

Thank you for the info. Where did you find it? Not knowing anything about this car, I want to educate myself before I dive in... Dave

[DaveAspi]

Will do... Thanks

[Guest DaveEbertSr]

G'Day Dave: My name is Dave Ebert, Sr and I am the Pre War Division Membership Chairman. I have owned a '23-4-39 For 41 years. I can tell you alot about this model. Until yours I only knew of one other besides mine. Please e-mail me directly. I will tell you many things. We would also like to include you in the BCA PWD

Dave Ebert, Sr

dle38@comcast.net

[jscheib]

By all means, you should join the BCA and Pre-War Division. We are curious as to where you are located so we can help you with anything on the older cars.

John

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave:

If you and Dave Ebert will post your frame numbers here, I can give you as much frame and engine number information as Buick left us. I can tell you that they issued 9 batches of frame numbers for 1923 Model 39's. Two of these batches only had 1 car in them, other batch sizes ranged from 178 to 500 in size. Total as shown previously was 1971 cars. If you add engine numbers so I can check them against my listings, I would be glad to confirm if the cars are powered by original engines.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[DaveAspi]

Howdy from sunny San Diego. I am "very" new to these "old" cars. I usually restore muscle cars- I have a 1970 Buick GS455 as well. I will be more than happy to get all of the info mentioned above- just let me know where to look :}....The car is in fantastic shape for an 83 year old car. Had been sitting for the past 10 years, so I have drained and refilled all fluids- need to find a 6 volt battery as well. Any tips as to how to work the hand crank? It will not budge, seems to be "locked" in some way. I pulled the valve cover off, and pulled the plugs as well- all looks good on there. Is there anything that needs to set or unset, prior to using the crank? I want to get the engine well lubed before I try to use the regular starter. Thanks Dave Corbin and Dave Ebert Sr., from Dave Aspi... The 3 Dave's!

[Guest DaveEbertSr]

G'Day Dave's: I am also the second owner of my '23-39. My serial numbers are: chasses, 1040687, and engine 1071127. I have the serial number of the other 39 that is in Aberdeen Wa. 1013159 owner is Gerold Peterson. Buick, Flint gave me pictures of a 39 that was restored and picture taken in '56. I have before and after pictures but have not been able to locate the car. it's serial number is 1094930. this car was owner in '56 by W.E.Stewart of Yuba City Ca.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Daves:

The frame numbers you give are as follows: 1040687 is the 93RD car of the 7TH batch of frame numbers. 1071127 would be an engine that could be in that car and is easily within the range of Buick inventory practice. 1013159 is the 20TH car in the 5TH batch. 1094930 is a frame number issued to a 1924 Model 48, so someone gave you a wrong number .

The things you need to check on being locked up are: Check that the transmission is in neutral by jacking up one rear wheel and turning it. Remember that the shift "H" pattern is BACKWARDS from right to left on these cars. Reverse is where you think 2ND gear is if you were brought up on a standard 30's floor shift. 1ST and High are of course swithched also.

Be sure the clutch will disengage ok. This can be done at the same time as test 1 by putting it in high gear, put the clutch in and check if the wheel will rotate. Marvel Mystery Oil, about 1/2 cup in each cylinder and a week of patience, seems to be the best solution on stuck engines. Use the hand crank WITHOUT having the spark plugs in for about 20 rounds of the engine. Use non detergent oil first!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A.:

Regarding location of numbers: The frame number will be on a small brass plate riveted to the frame. Usual locations are on top of a frame rail right behind the body or right in front of a radiator mount. The engine number is stamped in about 3/8 high numbers, usually around the back of the engine on a mounting ear or small machined surface. Number range will be between 950,000 and 1,150,000 for both numbers, with the engine number being about 30,000 larger than the frame number. Your title should have a number on it, if the car was ever titled. If you got it on a bill-of-sale, you will need one of these numbers to get a title. Also, some states used the frame number while others used the engine number for title purposes, so you might find either one on the title. Use the frame number for title purposes if you have a choice, as this would allow you to use another engine if things don't go right.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A:

BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU HAND-CRANK!!!! A backfire can result in a broken arm if your thumb is across the crank handle. Crank with your thumb BESIDE the 1ST finger to form a cupped handle grip. A Ford Model T friend is a good coach for this.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Mark Shaw]

Dave,

You are getting some great advice here. Be patient with getting your engine un-stuck. In addition to putting Marvel oil in the cylinders, I suggest you use PT Blaster on the crank & rod bearings. My 15 Buick was stuck while it soaked in Marvel for a month. It didn't budge until I also soaked the crank bearings. My son put some pressure on the crank while I gently tapped on the bottom bearings. It broke loose when I tapped on the middle main bearing.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave:

On the subject of detergent VS. non-detergent oils, look at that subject being discussed on another thread on this forum. Just so you know, "Old Guy" is a 35 year BCA friend of mine who drives the wheels off a 1940 straight eight. I would follow his advice on this subject and that's after having tooling responsibility for a couple million Diesel engines, so I'm not exactly an amatuer on the subject.

My personal cars are split on the subject: The 39 Roadmaster with an engine rebuilt about 20 years ago runs detergent since the rebuild. The un-rebuilt 92,000 mile 38 Special runs non-detergent straight 30 weight. After I got it, I changed the oil right away, again at 200 miles and again at 500 more miles, with new filters all 3 times. Now it's yearly.

Incidentally, the transmission oil and the rear end need a first change, and then a 2nd change at the 500 mile or 1 year mark, same logic.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveEbertSr]

G'Day Daves: Between my friend Lee and I we have 4 chassis. The ones before the 1,000,000 are on the brass plate Left side behind the front axle. Those after the 1,000,000 are on a steel plate that the numbers are pressed into. Also on this plate before the number is the square Buick logo also stamped in the plate. Of the 7 engines that Lee and I have the engine serial number plates are the same type and are located on the left front of the crank case casting about half way between the cylinders and the pan. If you would like pictures of these please give me your e-mail address and I can provide them. Oh yes, my friend Lee's '23 is a Model 35 touring and is before the 1,000,000 car built so it has the brass plates on the frame but the engine has a 1,000,000 type plate on it. We are reasonally sure the engine is correct as the title had both numbers on it. The funny thing is that I just traded an old Case tractor for another engine and it is the one that shows on Lee's title.

[DaveAspi]

Wow- what a great site- so "much" info!!! I will get the numbers tonite, and purchase some Mystery Oil as well... I will be careful with the hand crank too... don't want hurt anything... Stay tuned.. Any recommendations for Buick help in San Diego? Also, how can I post pictures on this site?

Dave A.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A:

You must live right! There's a BCA chapter in San Diego! Go to the BCA website, click on San Diego, and go from there!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave E.:

Remember that I said that engine numbers around 1923 run about 30,000 larger that he engine number? If the frame number was 980,000, the approximate engine number would be 1,010,000. This is how you get a car with two different styles of numbers. Interesting point about the switch point, though.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also, how can I post pictures on this site?

Dave A. </div></div>

Check out this thread...hopefully that will get you started. If you post your photos on this (the AACA) site, there is a period you will need to wait until your photos are visible. I just use Photobucket.com for hosting photos.

[Mark Shaw]

Dave,

I have a business trip to San Diego planned for December 5th - 8th. Maybe I could take a look at your Buick that week?

[DaveAspi]

Of course, send me an email @ aspidude@yahoo.com and I will give you directions.

Dave

[Guest DaveEbertSr]

G'Day All: I have had several PWD members request that I post all information on the 23-39 to this forum. Because there is so much I will post it in the BCA PWD December news letter. If you are not a member Please join the BCA PWD.

Dave

[DaveAspi]

I found the chassis # in the title- 1072241- have not found this plate on the frame yet. Have jotted down many numbers from all around the car- I think the engine number is- 1573004- would this make sense? There was also a number on the bottom of the engine- 151646- rockers- 151519, waterpump- 151638- trani- 156596-1 and 157956-1. Hooked up a battery and the electrical seems fine- horn, lights guages work- The engine is still completly stuck.

Any comments are advice is welcome...

Thanks to all, I will keep you posted... Dave

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave:

1072241 was a frame number given by Buick to a 1924 Model 35, not a 1923 Model 39. The number of 1573004 is a much later 6-cylinder engine. Things don't match. I think you've got to keep looking for numbers.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[jbbuick22]

Dave I have a 1923 Buick parts book for the 6cyl and 4 cyl cars. It has pictures as well as pt#'s

I can have the 4 cyl. section copied if you want.

I have a 22-55 which seems to have about the same survival rate, 3 to 4 units.

JB

[DaveAspi]

JB,

A parts list? That would be great! Also locations of

frame#'s and engine #'s would be a great help. I'm,

looking at all sorts of numbers, guess just not the

right ones... ;}

Dave, aspidude@yahoo.com

[DaveAspi]

Found'm!

Frame number is- 1040732

Engine number is- 1072241

So, are these correct for a 23-39?

[Mark Shaw]

Dave,

Dave Corbin will know.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A:

The numbers you give are for a frame number that WAS issued to a 1923 model 39. Engine is in a possible range for that group of frame numbers. My opinion is that you've bought yourself a "numbers match" car!!! Congrats!! Get it unstuck carefully. You wouldn't want to cause a "divorce" after 83 years.

Regards, Dave Corbin

PS: Looks like I've got Mark fooled, he seems to think I might know something about this numbers thing. After 6 years of study and 5000 hours of effort and research, even a slow learner like me makes progress. Dave C.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A:

The number on your title indicates that it's a title from a state that used motor numbers. If possible, get your new title using the frame number, so that if something went really wrong on the engine thing, you wouldn't have a hassle when you sell. Motor numbers were used in many states for titles years back, so this isn't an uncommon situation.

Reghards, Dave Corbin

[DaveAspi]

Great advice on the title, I didn't even notice the number on the title matched the number on my engine! I have a lot of "Buick School'n" in front of me, don't I? I hope to get some real time in over the long weekend to get the engine unstuck- yes, verrrry carefully of course. Numbers matching 'eh? Cool beans! More info to follow!

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave A:

Check your private message items.

Regards, Dave Corbin