Question about building my 455

[LogansBuicks]

I'm trying to start gathering information on rebuilding my 455 for my 70 Buick Skylark. I'm looking at parts from Year One, Poston, Kanter, PST, and TA Performance. I'm trying to decide what parts work best together. The 455 is from a 1970 Buick Electra.

Is there anybody out there that has rebuilt a 455 using some of the performance parts from these places or others and had good luck? Which parts were they?

I want this motor to be pushing between 500-600 horses and as much torque as the frame can handle. I want to be able to race on the strip and be able to handle driving it on the weekends to the local burger joints.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[The Old Guy]

Talk to Dave or Mike at TA Performance. They wont steer you wrong.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Hi Ed,

You need to fix you link so that we can see all you beautiful cars.

TA Performance knows their stuff. You wont go wrong there.

[LogansBuicks]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Ed,

You need to fix you link so that we can see all you beautiful cars.

TA Performance knows their stuff. You wont go wrong there. </div></div>

This is actually Aaron, Ed's son.

I'll call TA Perf then. Thanks guys.

LINK FIXED! Hopefully!

[Guest John Chapman]

Ed,

Another great info source is http://buickperformance.com/

They have a forum that deals specifically with later model performance V-8 Buicks. You have to get a Yahoo account to join the forum, but it's free otherwise.

Cheers,

JMC

[Smartin]

or www.v8buick.com

www.bpgforums.com

[LogansBuicks]

Thanks Guys.

And don't forget, I'm Aaron, not Ed. Ed is my dad...

I aquired my 1970 Buick Skylark from my dad when I was 16. Just recently I've pulled the frame out from under the vehicle and it is sitting in my driveway waiting to be pulled apart.

[NTX5467]

Well . . . Aaron . . . it might be well and good to say you have that much power under the hood, but unless you can get it past the flywheel, it's useless and only serves as "bragging rights" (if that matters).

For reference, Popular Hot Rodding magazine has had several engine buildups of engines of various makes in their Enginemasters competition. This has gone on for about the past 5 years or so. They take some of the top engine builders of each type/brand of engine and they all compete to see who can do what the best (horsepower included). Researching those articles can give you an idea of just what specs really make how much horsepower in a Buick 455-style V-8.

Now, from the flywheel "back", you'll need a strengthened Turbo400 transmission, which probably came with the engine, but "stock" is not enough to handle the power you desire it to handle. That not only means upgraded clutches, bands, and such, but a torque converter to match the power output characteristics of the resultant engine combination (stall speed is one aspect of that situation).

From there, you'll probably need some stronger u-joints in the drive shaft and transmission slip yoke. There might be a pre-built driveshaft available from the hot rod vendors that can take some of the trouble of finding a local driveshaft shop out of the mix. "Solid" u-joints might be required too, rather than the ones with grease channels in them--just a thought.

That gets to the rear axle. Others more familiar with the axle under the Skylark can advise on that. Sometimes, you can get a "smaller" ring gear size axle to last with a larger motor than it should by tightening up the ring gear/pinion gear clearances, but it will be much more "short trip" oriented when you do that--no long highway cruises as such. Not to mention a much deeper rear axle gear than what came with the car. There are "street-rated" gears and "race-only" gear sets from the hot rod axle parts vendors. Getting the right gear is important!

If you are going to race the vehicle competitively, you'll desire a rear axle gear to put the engine just below (not much, but still allowing for some cushion in regard to the ultimate red line of the engine) horsepower peak just as you cross the finish line in a 1/4 mile race. Having that much gear and torque converter can make the car "not fun" and "expensive" to run on the street.

From the rear axle, you move to "what locates the axle in the frame". This would mean the "boxed" rear control arms from aftermarket vendors. Solid bushings are not a "street-friendly" situation, being more race-only in nature.

And now that we've got the power to the pavement, there needs to be some upgraded "retarding devices" involved! There are lots of front disc brake kits for older cars, even some for the rear too. Only thing with disc brakes is that they can make the car harder to stage on the starting line than drum brakes (or drum brakes with full metallic brake linings). Having a sufficient booster size and additional vacuum reservoirs for the power brakes can help this along, plus the requisite "Line Loc" device. If you're going to have a "blower", manifold vacuum can be non-existent under moderate power anyway, but there are not some electric booster pumps on the market for that situation.

Also, by observation, be highly cognizant that what you read about in the magazines is not the full story on what it took to make something work right. From what I've seen, you get a big snapshot of the big things with many finer details not admitted to. Finer details for which you need the services of an expert and experienced Buick engine builder/machine shop to get past and it be right.

I believe you might also consult with Dean Plunk or Stan (who used to have a green Skylark convertible that he raced competitively and also drove on the street). (Father) Ed might remember them from about 10+ years ago when Stan worked at the auto supply near Garland (where they used to have some car shows on weekends).

There might also be some people in the local GS club that are non-turbo-oriented that might have some information for you too. I believe they are still doing the monthly cruise at Chuck's near Frisco? They have a website so you can contact them--Lone Star Perfomance Buick Club

In reality, you can have just as much fun with a Stage II or Stage I 455 (well finessed and assembled) as you can with what you reference. Once you get past a certain power point, costs and maintenance issues can go up exponentially. It could be better to have a 450 horsepower motor that runs reliably and efficiently, still pushing you BACK into the seat cushions in the process, than a 550 horsepower engine that might look impressive (but not performing "to capabilities" due to the total vehicle combination not being fully dialed-in, yet look impressive as it sits there).

With the 450 horsepower range, you can probably use many stock-rated performance parts (i.e., factory Buick), rather than the aftermarket items being needed in many cases. Also, you do NOT want the frame to flex very much--if at all. It MIGHT look impressive, but when it flexes, things will break over time (i.e., body joints will crack, welded joints on the frame can crack, metal fatigue over a period of time)--MORE money and things to fix. To me, when that frame flexes, it means that power is being lost that could be moving the vehicle forward--not a show of extreme raw power per se.

Plus, if you have the chassis set up to handle serious drag strip lauches, including weight transfer "shows", it also makes it less of a car to be driving on the street--unless you only drive under 35mph. Main issue is shock absorber damping on the front suspension, so that it will do those wheel stander shows in the parking lot and on the starting line.

Oh, and don't forget about the exhaust system. "Loud" does not mean "power" anymore, if that matters.

Basically, you can build the 455 to the 450 or so power level and have something of a period, modified, muscle car from the 1970s. Sure, you can have aftermarket "things" on it too, even probably an underhood MagnaCharger supercharger set up, upgraded ignition, and port fuel injection for good measure. End result could be an enjoyable and safe and reliable street driver with that setup, which would also be easier to sell later on, if desired. Easier on "the kids'" ears too, possibly.

Personally, I'd rather have a 450 horsepowe engine that made 550+ lbs/ft of torque at 3500rpm than a 600 horseppower engine at 6000rpm that needed many "race" items to make work, followed by some sort of overdrive transmission to allow for many 70mph cruises across country, if I desired, at decent fuel economy. It's "torque" that spins the tires, with horsepower happening later. Rather than the "numbers" of horsepower, it's more about the combination of parts that work together to make things work as good as they can.

Also be cognizant of how you get insurance on it and at what valuation it will be.

In the end, it's YOUR car, YOUR money, and YOUR dreams of what that combination can bring.

Enjoy! Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

[LogansBuicks]

Those are some awesome thoughts too.

At this point I am starting to look into building the motor, and after that will come the tranny back.

I know I sound like an excited teenager waiting to get his first hunk of junk from the used car lot, but that's not the way I am. I've had this car for ten years and just started tearing it down a little over two years ago. I'm not going to go fast in rebuilding it, and I don't intend to make this a quick trip down memory lane. I want to build it right, and I want the car to be powerful and be able to handle everything it has to offer. I've been looking at suspension, transmissions, engine building, rear differentials, and though at this point I don't have an exact idea of what this car will turn out to be, I have a feeling that with me directing the restoration it will turn out to be a one of a kind 1970 Buick Skylark.

I want to figure out the motor first, and after that, build the rest of the drive train and car to be able to handle whatever the outcome of the motor will be.

And that's why I am asking. If I know that 450 hp and 550+ torque can give me the desired results, then that's awesome. If I can keep from making this into a competitive race only car, then even better. I want to be able to drive it on the street, but at the same time kick back with the LSPBC at the track and be able to keep up with the GN's.

I don't know. I'm just starting the process, and like I said, I'm only at the frame. It may take me a couple years just to get the frame, suspension etc together...We'll see...

[BqUICK]

Aaron,

I was 17 when I bought this Buick. About 10 years before that I began a savings account and about 4 years later I decided I wanted a 1969 Buick Electra 225 Sport Coupe. It had the new generation engine, lighter frame, and running gear.

The "Deuce" was a fast car and people were winning races againt Mustangs, GTXs, Corvettes, RX-3s, and many other "Hot" cars. It was a muscle car in disguise of a luxury car. The secret was the light weight next generation 430 that weighed as much as an aluminum block ZL-1 427 but with more punch. It helped that it was 500 - 800 lbs lighter than other "Big" cars thanks to Buick engineering!

Do not take 22 years to get it together like me. Get the best engine builder you can up front. Have the short block built by a BUICK pro if you want to do some assembly yourself. I'm having my second engine built and am going to Scotty Guadagno. Am I rich? Heck no! I figure, why should I do it twice with a Chevy pro who does not know or respect my motor. Get it done right the first time, even if I have to get parts from thousands of miles away! YOU SAVE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN!

4,540 Lbs in Drag Trim

4,840 Lbs in Road Race Trim

12.99 sec @ 102.95 MPH

1.9 Sec 60 ft

0 - 60: 4.27 Sec

65 Sec Auto Cross

493 HP on Water Brake DYNO

535 Ft-Lbs on Water Brake DYNO