Uuuggghh, help with 6v systems???

[Guest]

I have a 41 chrysler with a six volt system. My question is as follows... Are 12 volt and six volt parts interchangeable? things like spark plugs, wires, headlights, and so on... Also radios, do modern radios work off a six volt system? If i cant go to pep boys for these parts, where do i get them at a reasonable cost? Any info would be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you!

[Guest]

As to interchangability:<P>Plugs - yes<BR>Wires - yes<BR>Batttery cables - no<BR>Headlights - no<BR>Other bulbs - no<BR>Coils - no [i might be wrong here, but not for the long haul]<BR>Condensers - probably OK [see old condenser discussion on the forum]<BR>Radio and any other electric accessories - no<P>Anything listed above except the radio can be found fairly priced at a GOOD auto parts store like NAPA or some older independent.<BR>Most of the employees at Pep Boys, Auto Zone and the like seem not to know that cars ever came in 6V form. ~ hvs<BR>

[Guest]

Thanks for the info. You saved me time and money! I'll call napa so i can try to stock up on parts before i need them. As for the radio, well i'll just have to sing alone without one!<BR>

[ply33]

I think you will find that a radio was an option on that car. Original radios are often hard to find but they are out there.<P>There are a number of vendors that can either repair the original tube electronics or replace the internals with modern solid state equivalents to give you an AM/FM radio that will run on your 6 volt system.<P>Another possibility I have seen: Get a 12v stereo system and wire it to a 12v gel cell battery. Charge the battery up before your tour and away you go. The self contained version of this is your "classic" boom box.<p>[This message has been edited by TodFitch (edited 03-25-2001).]

[The Old Guy]

Another option is a step up transformer. I have used one in my 40 Buick for years. I mounted a 12 volt radio and a CB in the glove box and drive them both with a 6 to 12 volt inverter. It works just fine.

[Guest]

I have upgraded my 39 Chevy to an 8 volt battery. The entire sysytem works wonderfully with no changes whatsoever. The lights are brighter and it starts much easier too. I have also swapped 8 volt for 6 volt batteries in my 53 Chevy truck and 42 IHC Farmall H tractor with no problems.

[Guest]

8 volt? I plead ignorance! Such a battery exists? You dont need to change anything at all? no wires or bulbs, spark plugs etc... Do you run a radio off of this battery? Perhaps a tractor radio? hmmmmmm.

[Guest]

Operating 6V equipment [bulbs and the like] on 8V will sooner or later take its toll. Those lights will continue to burn much brighter right up to the moment they burn out prematurely and leave you in the dark.<P>And what about the voltage regulator?<P>But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Guest]

I have been using my 53 chevy truck on 8 volts daily for the past 10 years with no problems. The voltage regulator has never had to be adjusted. It has always kept the battery charged with no problems. There is no reason why the wiring would be problematic and it has never burnt out. 8 volts do exist in very "standard" sizes. I bought mine thru Farm and Fleet here in the midwest and I know they are avail elsewhere. I started using it after a rebuild of my 6 volt 216 inline 6. It was a very tight motor and after the motor was shut off in the summer for short periods of time, the temp would rocket up to 210. The ole 6 volt couldnt quite turn her over. My father suggested an 8 volt since it made sense that there would be no changes needed except possibly adjusting the regulator( which as I stated, has not been needed). I do not have a 6 volt radio in the truck so I cannot comment on that. I use have used voltage inverters before with my old 6 volt system with no problems running a 12 volt radio. Try an 8 Volt, you will LOVE it!!<BR>---------------DOC<BR>

[Guest]

I forgot to mention that my headlights are 25 years old and have been using 8 volts for the last 10 years with no problems. I hope this *8 volt info helps others ---DOC

[Guest]

HVS is right about the coil. 6 and 12 volt coils are not interchangable. Also, make sure whether your car is positive or negative ground.

[novaman]

The only time the wiring harness would give you problems is if you were to take a 12v car and change it to 6v. The wiring can't handle the (i beleive it is) amps. If you take a look at a 6v harness and a 12v harness you'll see that the 6v harness uses heavier gaguge wire. It's too early in the morning for me to get into all the elecrtical formulas.

[Mark Huston]

Just a quick note in response to the 6 volt to 8 volt battery swap. I had a 1929 Studebaker that still had an all original wiring harness, starter, etc. I was told about the 8 volt battery swap for quicker starts. I tried it the next time my 6 volt batter died. For me it did not work. I quickly lost my bulbs and I had other electrical problems. It has been a few years ago, I can't recall all the problems. One that I do recall is this model had a buzzer that went off if there was a dead short. For the first time in the 20 years I had that car the buzzer went off right after I started to drive it with the 8 volt and it sounded like a rattle snake in the dash, scared the life out of me. Anyway, I switched back to the 6 volt and ran the car that way until I later sold it. Now to be fair the 8 volt swap may have had nothing to do with the timing of the buzzer going off it might have happened anyway.

[Guest]

Instead of going to an 8V system, why not just get a heavier duty 6V battery? I just bought a new one for my 48 Packard and had 2 choices. The standard 650 CCA and a heavy duty 1328 CCA. Guess which one I went with? My general experience is that a 6V is a reliable system and works the way the engineers designed it. The only drawback is if you need a jumpstart but if you have AAA they can usually accomodate this.

[ply33]

I concur with HVS, an 8v system will burn the lights out faster. However many seem to get along fine on it.<P>My theory is that on an older wiring harness, there is enough resistance due to corrosion, particularly at the connectors, that you are not getting full voltage out to the various components. This gives you at least two solutions:<ol>[*]Band-aid it over with higher voltage (8v battery)[*]Or, fix the wiring harness.

I prefer the second method.

[ThomasBorchers]

I agree with Tod.<BR>6 Volt worked fine as the car was new. If the terminals/connectors are all like new or in a very good condition it will work fine with 6 Volt. I have only 6 Volt at my 1912 Cadillac and the lights are really bright.<P>Tom

[Guest]

It's hard to believe so much haggling can be created within a 6 volt vs. 8 volt discussion. I have used both, but prefer the 8 volt battery for its better starts. Of course, a properly tuned car with a 6 volt battery is also just fine. As advise to those who want to try 8 volts, adjust the voltage regulator to 10.25 to 10.50 volts. This keeps the battery happy, and doesn't seem to burn out the bulbs. But that's just my opinion, and they say opinions are like...........

[Guest]

Ok, let me get this right... If i go to 8v, then i may just see benefits due to older wires. If I use higher grade 6v i get good benefits. If i use standard 6 i run the chance of poor starts. Hmmmmm, do they make 8v headlights? The higher cold cranking amp 6v sounds like a good compromise. I just thought of something... Do they make cables that can jump a 6v system? Maybe a converter in the cable for 12v to 6v??? This is my first pre-war car, so excuse my ignorance!<P>thanks everyone!<BR>Rick

[novaman]

a 6v car can be jumped off from a 12v car. Turn ALL lights, radio and other electrical components OFF on the 6v. car. Then hook up the jumper cables as you normally would on a 12v. car PAYING attention to Neg. or Pos. ground. As soon as you make the last connection, crank the 6v. car as quick as possible and as soon as it's running unhook the jumpers as fast as possible. Works best if two people are doing so one can just stay in the car to crank it, but one person can do it. Been there, done that many times.

[Guest]

Right novaman, and it really gets that starter turning. I start my '41 Cadillac that way after it has been sitting over the winter. I use a commercial charger set on 12V START.<P>Now, if it does that to a starter just imagine what it does to those 6V lamp filaments. The 8V battery just does it 4V less.<P>greenie ~ I don't consider what we are doing here haggling. It is a LEARNING process and since we don't all know everything about everything it serves a useful purpose. Maybe 6V is best and maybe 8V is best, but as a result of this discussion a lot of us have learned something.<P>But that's just my opinion. hvs

[Guest]

I really have to say something about 6 volts and the bad rap it gets for starting ability. My properly maintained 6V system will start that Packard straight 8 in less than 1 turn of the engine! If the car sits for a week it may take 2 trys but it has never run down the battery or failed to start. Remember these systems were in the cars when they were new and worked just fine so why wouldn't they work just as well today? Is it maybe we have become so used to the 12V quick turn sound of the starter that the 6V doesn't "sound" right? For me (a purist) I'll stick with 6V.

[Guest]

Chris ~ I think you are right on the money with the "sound right" theory. <P>Another thing. We must realize that many, if not most, of our cars were worn out before we ever got them. So there can be a multitude of unseen and unknown problems relating to hard starting. Don't be too quick to blame it all on the 6V system. Just another of my opinions. hvs

[ply33]

"Sounds right" My wife now has a 2001 Toyota Prius hybrid gas/electric car. Talk about sounding different.<P>Turn the key to start and there is no sound, you simply wait for a "ready" light to come on. Then release the key to put it in run. If it needs the gas engine, it starts running. If not, well, then it does not run.<P>There appears to be no "starter motor" as such. If it needs to start the gas engine is uses the 300 volt 400 ft. lb. torque electric drive motor which is totally silent. The gas engine just starts running with no starter sound at all. Kind of strange feeling, just going from off to on with no apparent transition.<P>Makes all those 12 volt starters sound noisy, quaint and old fashioned. But thats what you can get with a 300 volt "starting system".<P>By the way, the 4 year old 6v battery/starter in the 1933 turns the engine over nearly as fast as the 12v battery/starter does in my 1991 everyday car.<P>My only real gripe about the 6v system in the old car is the lack of a voltage regulator (introduced on Plymouth on some 1934 models). I got to keep adjusting the third brush or play with the lights while driving to keep the battery charge about right. On a 1941 car that should not be a problem because it has a regulator.

[Guest]

Did you ever notice that a 12 volt system with a alternator usually charges the battery to 14 volts when running? I have used an 8 volt battery when it was not possible to fit a larger 6 volt in the battery tray. No problems over a good period of time. It is best to use a good 6 volt when all engine componets are in good condition.

[ply33]

If I recall correctly, a "12 volt" system is actually charged to 13.8 volts. The only time you should see 12 volts at the battery is when it is discharged or under heavy load (like starting). The equivalent voltage for a "6 volt" system is 6.9 volts.<P>If you look at <a href="http://www.ply33.com/backmatter/lightbulbs.html">light bulb</a> data you will notice a range of design voltages. Typically bulbs that draw low current and are on short runs (like #63 bulbs used in dash lights) are rated for a higher voltage than those with large current draw located at the end of longer runs (like headlight bulbs). Some headlight bulbs are rated for as low as 5.5 volts and many are rated at 6.2 volts. That is the voltage they are expected to "see" based on the design current draw, wire gauge, wire length, switch contact resistance, etc.<P>Basically the whole system was designed (wire gauge, nominal battery voltage, bulb ratings) so that the components receive the correct voltage based on expected losses between the device and the component. You may be able to change the battery voltage, but it is harder to change the coil or light bulb voltage.<P>If you are considering 8 volts for better starting, you have some problems with your electrical system. Perhaps those problems are systemic (sp?) and you also have low voltage at your lights and other locations. If so, you may be able to run an 8 volt battery without burning out bulbs or damaging coils. But you are doing this redesign in an ad hoc manner. Why not simply restore the original design by correcting the defects that have accumulated with time?<P> Some day I will have to learn to make shorter posts..

[Guest]

Don't shorten them Tod. There is ALWAYS a lot of good technical info coming from your fingertips, and we all benefit from it at one time or another. Thanks. hvs

[novaman]

Tod, I've got to agree with Howard. Don't worry about make the post shorter. I for one enjoy reading your input. they are well written and informative.

[Guest]

I have a 1936 Packard Model 1404, with the original 6 volt system, it took a lot of ''cranks'' to get the gas from the tank to the carb. After I installed a 6 volt electric fuel pump back at the tank, to fill the carb, I turn the key, wait for the pump to stop clicking, and it will fire on around 4 turns, no matter if the engine's hot or cold.

[Chris Bamford]

Here's a bit of a twist on the discussion - my 1912 KisselKar 4-50 has both 6-vt and 12-vt systems, no generator or alternator, and it all works like a charm...<P>The 6-vt system was original of course, and powers the side and tail lamps (headlamps are acetylene) and ignition. Since my Kissel is a Fire Chief's car, the siren also runs off the 6-vts, as does a period accessory dash light I've added. I imagine the original 6-vt batteries were a dry cell type? In any event, I bought the biggest capacity slow-discharge 6-vt lead-acid battery I could fit into the running board battery box and simply power the lights/ignition directly with no recharging system. I've never noticeably run the battery down, and trickle charge the battery every month or two in the driving season. And I do a lot of night driving, so the side and tail lamps get frequent use.<P>The 12-vt system has been a modern addition. After one season of driving with only a crank (1912s had no starter) my back and I decided to add an electric. The best one for the job turned out to be from a 1970 VW Squareback: Its 12-volt and reverse rotation (so could be mounted behind the flywheel beside the transmission), and had no "nose-cone" like a Chevy V8 starter which would have got in the way. A cute touch was that the VW starter is a Bosch unit, like my Kissel ignition, so at least the brand is right, though the period is off by 58 years!<P>The starter is tucked away nicely between the frame and the transmission, and the switch hidden (down in between the seat side and seat cushion) so everything looks right under casual examination.<P>The G & D period spotlight had already had the socket area of the reflector removed by a previous owner to allow installation of a 110-vt light for rumpus-room use (yikes!). To further aid night driving, I elected to install a 12-vt halogen snowmobile bulb, wired through a period-looking 3-position switch. Position 1 is off, position 2 is low beam (slopes down to the left and up to the right), and position 3 powers both high- and low-beam filaments. Talk about bright - you could hunt deer on that setting! This light has also seen a great deal of use, and I've never burned out the bulb.<P>There is a period stop lamp mounted at the rear, also now 12-volts. This was one of the combination tail and stop lamp units - I put a 12-vt brake bulb in each socket and wired them both up in parellel to the brake switch. Another very bright, and very effective, light.<P>All this 12-volt stuff runs off a deep cycle, high-capacity, lead-acid battery hidden beneath the rear seat. This one also gets trickle-charged every month or two, and has never gone flat on me. Having 12-volts on board means my little air compressor will have power should I ever need it, and I once had the treat of giving a modern car a needed jump start.<P>I'm of the belief that in many cases no charging system is necessary if one has high capacity batteries and keeps them trickle-charged every once in a while. (My 1906 Orient Buckboard also had dry cells and no generator originally. That one is now running off a 12-volt motorcycle battery ad a Model T coil. One charge lasts the entire season!)<P>The Kissel is a positive ground vehicle, so both batteries are hooked up this way. The lights don't care, and, to my surprise, neither the siren or starter cares either. They both turn only one direction no matter what the polarity.