Help identify a car in Spain (Imperial?)

[Peter Gariepy]

Got this email from a gentleman in Spain. Let's help this fellow enthusiast out!

Gandiauto <gandiauto@gandiauto.es> wrote:

Dear Mr.

My father had an imperial (I think it is an imperial but i`m not sure) now I'm trying to start it again, but I need some spare parts.

I'm from Spain and I do not have many information about old cars but my interest is on this model that I think is an imperial, up to know I only have two data: It is a 6 cylinder car, and it looks as a Chrysler imperial four door five passenger sedan for 1931 and its frame number is 9850191 and engine number W21255. I have been checking in different web sites but I couldn't get the exact model, as on the frame number list that I have consult this number do not appear.

As the car is on Spain and all data consulted up to now came form USA, I dont now if you could help me in order to know the exact model and year in order to start to find all information related to this model, catalogue, spare parts list, etc.

I would be very glad if you could help me in order to find the exact model and year.

Sincerely yours,

Josep Miquel Juan Climent.

[Peter Gariepy]

In looking through my Chrylser books this doesnt appear to be Chrysler product at all.

Front fenders swoop down to low.

Grill isnt exactly right.

Suicide doors dont appear to be right.

I'm gonna keep looking... but... I dont think it's a Chrysler product.

Peter

[Guest brockway]

If it's not Chrysler then it's a DeSoto. Compare the car to this picture of 1933 DeSoto. The grill is slightly different but bodywork looks exactly same.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Chrysler/1933_De_Soto_Model_CK-2.jpg

[Peter Gariepy]

Here is a 31 Imperial.

Here is a 33 Imperial

MORE IMPERIAL PHOTOS:

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/index.htm

I'm confident it's not an Imperial.

(still researching)

Peter

[oldefar]

Hi guys.

I also got this letter from Spain. I tried to find his "frame number" at the www.imperialclub.com site, but could not find anything. I don't know if "frame number" is the same as serial or vin, but this is what we really need to identify this car. Even so, we may not, because remember that many Chrysler Corporation cars were buildt and/or assembled in Europe, and some were even cars made in the U.S. and Canada especially for export. I know that here in little hidden Norway (back then) in the 1930's there was a lot of Chrysler cars being assembled not to far from my hometown. They came in parts in huge wooden boxes. And even with the same brand and model name, they looked different. Just look at the 1959 DESOTO Diplomat (I got a 4 door hard-top) which used a 1959 PLYMOUTH Fury body and interior, and a 1959 DeSoto front clip. This Spanish "imperial" might just as well be buildt and/or assembled in some European country. I intend to e-mail this Spanish guy and ask if he can find a serial number or vin. That could make it easier. Anyway, I do not know of an American made 1931 IMPERIAL with a 6 syl. engine. As far as I know, all the '31 Imperials had 8 syl. Respectfully, Einar in Norway.

[Guest imported_Bill-W]

The car's frame number is the serial number, or as they call it now, the vehicle identification number.

9850191 - in within the sequence that started at 9850001 and ended at 9850305. That is for a Canadian-built Chrysler model CT, the Royal 8.

The engine number, W21255, is for a 1930 model W, series 77, 6-cylinder. So somewhere along the line the engine was replaced.

The model W engine was a flathead six, 3.375" bore, 5.00" stroke, for 268.9-cid. With a 5.0:1 compression ratio it put out 93 bhp at 3200 rpm.

The CT Royal 8 engine (engine prefix should be "CT") was an in-line flathead engine, 3.25" bore, 4.125" stroke, for 273.8-cid It had a compression ratio of 5.4:1 and had 90 bhp at 3400 rpm.

The 1933 ROyal 8 had a 119.5" wheelbase. The body and front fenders in the encloses photos are correct for a 1933 Royal 8, but the hood and fenders are not. The Royal 8 had doors on the hood sides and not slots. The hood and grille shell are very similar to the 1933 Dodge 8, which used a 122" wheelbase and share many body parts with the Chrysler.

I suspect the car may have been in an accident sometime in the past 70 years and someone used the hood from a related Mopar product. Similarly, the original engine undoubtedly died somewhere along the line, and the owner found it easier to replace the engine rather than repair the original. As the regular-sized Mopar products (ie, non-Imperial) shared engines and mechanical bits in those days, it would be an easy swap. Many six-cylinder Mopar vehicles from the 1930's had their enignes replaced with units from the 1950's. They are bolt-in replacements.

By the way, whereabouts on the frame did you find the number? The original engine number should be stamped on the frame, driver's side, by the rear hangar of the front spring.

Hope this helps.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[K8096]

Doesn't the grille & grille shell look like 1934 Plymouth? The hood ornament looks like the ship Plymouth had in 1934 with the ship part broke off & just the base left.

[ThomasBorchers]

Hello !

Just an idea... for me it looks like an European car like Citroen or Renault. Or a british car. As far as I can see looks the hood ornament like the Zeppelin of the Opel Cars in the late 30s / 40s and 50s . But the car is of course no Opel.

Greetings

Tom

[oldefar]

Nice info. Bill-W. I belive you are right. This is as close as we can get, and I think the guy in Spain should go along with that. Finding the engine number on the frame would sure help to verify your info. Einar.

[dep5]

I agree that this car appears to be a 1933 Chrysler Royal 8 model CT. With the exception of the bumpers, wheels, hood and radiator shell the sheet metal is all Detroit built CT, re: by brightening and contrasting the pictures with Photoshop the front and rear fenders, side tire mounting hardware, splash aprons, running boards, fuel tank cover and luggage rack are all identifiable as CT.

The 1934 Plymouth radiator shell and grille are custom fitted to match the juncture of the 33 fenders which tie together beneath the radiator shell. The bottom of the shell was trimmed to accomplish the fit. The hood looks like 1934 Plymouth PF/PG (no doors) but A PF/PG hood is approx 38_1/2 inches long at the hinge and this seems too short; it would be interesting to confirm the length with a CT sedan hood.

(I would certainly have egg on my face if I learned that the export CT was shipped with the Plymouth style radiator shell and hood.)

It is not a 1933 Desoto, the Desoto had a similar body but uses a one-piece outer windshield frame with a vertical divider strip while the subject car has two separate assemblies. This vehicle is definitely not an Imperial.

The bumpers appear to be 1930 Chrysler era. Body tags on the firewall may provide a reinforcing clue, also the model code was often written in chalk beneath the headliner on the right rear of the body next to the rear/back window on closed cars in the 1933-34 MoPar era.

I have located motor/engine numbers in various places, always on the left side of the frame rail, occasionally on the left front frame horn ahead of the wheel, near the steering box, underneath the runningboard splash aprons (near the battery box rivets) and behind the left rear wheel to the rear of the frame.

As far as I know serial/VIN numbers were not stamped into the frame until the 1940's. If you want to get a copy of your shipping order from Chrysler Historical you will have to provide the serial/VIN number. The records are not indexed by motor numbers.

Attached is another photo of a 1933 Chrysler Royal 8 model CT sedan with a checkered past.