Yellow '29 ?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I have determined that the primary original color of my 645 was Yellow, and a fairly bright yellow. Since that was Not a standard Packard color in '29, was it a standard Dietrich color or would it have been a special order item? Did Dietrich bodied cars have standard colors?

[Joe Block]

My friend just di is 1993 Hummer I in Corvette yellow it look great. I think it would be stanning on a packard. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Albert]

Just talk to those Cubans, if they can make a chev and a truck float, they can make a Packard float, but you have to watch out fot the US Navy, they like to torpedo things...

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

If your car was custom bodied then the owner that ordered it would have defined colour.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

If u found yellow then i would be suspicous or another colour lurking somewhere too. It was probably two or three toned.

[Dave Mitchell]

Dietrich did do some unusual colors - Morgan Yost had a 33 Dietrich sport phaeton, (V windshield) that was an unusual color of light, sort of soft mint, green. I still have a shock absorber from the car with the original paint on it. A friend of mine restored the car putting it back in the original color, and people in general didn't like it, even though it was absolutely correct. The car won best of show at the PAC nationals and many awards, always garnering perfect scores, but later when it made the auction circuit everyone said it would bring much more if it were a different color. A later owner painted it very dark green and it is gorgeous, and probably did bring a lot more when sold too. There are photos of it when shown at the New York open car show and you can see it is a light color, and probably specially done for the show circuit to stand out among all the big dark cars. So, yes it could be an unusual color, but in the end, unless you really like it, it may not be your best choice. Morgan once told me that his friends who worked at Packard in the old days assured him that you could get any color that you wanted on a big Packard. He also said that you have to choose from the spectrum of colors that were available at the time, so that limits you also. Corvette/Hummer yellow is probably not a good choice for several reasons.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, the Yellow (I think you would call it a Lemon-yellow) was on the sides of hood and body. The fenders and beltway were black. The door window frames and wheels were dark Green. Not sure what color the top was, since it is gone, but it was probably black, since the rear window frame is black. Don't know about the top of hood and trunk lid but they were probably yellow. So, I guess you would call it 3 tone paint job. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I still haven't decided what color I'm going to paint it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> The original colors would be okay, but they are not my favorites. Going with a 2 tone, yellow (light-yellow, not orange-yellow) and black, would be okay. Or maybe Yellow and Dark-Green. It would be unusual, I think.

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have determined that the primary original color of my 645 was Yellow, and a fairly bright yellow. Since that was Not a standard Packard color in '29, was it a standard Dietrich color or would it have been a special order item? Did Dietrich bodied cars have standard colors? </div></div>

The late 1920's were anything but drab, where cars were concerned, particularly if the car carried custom coachwork. Of course, formal bodied cars certainly tended to be very conservatively painted, but with coupes and certainly open cars such as roadsters, cabriolets, phaetons and convertible sedans, brighter colors did happen.

If you can find a library with them in bound volumes, might I suggest scoping out National Geographic Magazine from this era? While of course, color photography really didn't exist quite yet, colorized artist renderings sure did--in car advertisements too. Note that many car ads did show fairly bright colors.

Art

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can find a library with them in bound volumes, might I suggest scoping out National Geographic Magazine from this era? While of course, color photography really didn't exist quite yet, colorized artist renderings sure did--in car advertisements too. Note that many car ads did show fairly bright colors. </div></div>

Keep in mind that those magazine ads are renderings, and many colors that artists used were not available for painting. That is a big mistake that many people make when picking colors. Just because an ad had the color, doesn't make it correct. In addition, many cars that were painted "brightly" for auto show were repainted a more subtle shade after the show. They were eye-catchers at the show, but they were hard to sell, especially during the Depression.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, I found that during that time, the average person though that only 'lower class' people bought cars that were bright colors, such as red and yellow. But hey, I'm 'lower class' and 'I Love it'. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My mother, who grew up during the depression, was that way. So, when I bought my first car and it was a '47 Caddy convertible, and was a 'Lavender' color. I thought she was going to kick me out of the house. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[55PackardGuy]

When it comes to classic Packard paint, I've often wondered if Valspar would have any archival information. I live near their plant and have been in the offices, and they have a lot of vintage advertising on their walls which shows Packards featuring Valspar paint. Apparently they were a major supplier of paint to Packard in the '20s and/or '30s and used this fact to good advantage in their own advertising. This is strictly "hearsay" information, but might be worth a look to someone restoring these cars.

For you Hot Rodders, Jon Kosmoski of "House of Kolor" custom paint fame was also a local Minneapolis business man and a client of mine when I was in the advertising biz. He apparently sold out to Valspar, and last I heard they carried his line of Kustom Kolors. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can find a library with them in bound volumes, might I suggest scoping out National Geographic Magazine from this era? While of course, color photography really didn't exist quite yet, colorized artist renderings sure did--in car advertisements too. Note that many car ads did show fairly bright colors. </div></div>

Keep in mind that those magazine ads are renderings, and many colors that artists used were not available for painting. That is a big mistake that many people make when picking colors. Just because an ad had the color, doesn't make it correct. In addition, many cars that were painted "brightly" for auto show were repainted a more subtle shade after the show. They were eye-catchers at the show, but they were hard to sell, especially during the Depression. </div></div>

I'm well aware they were renderings, but we are talking about a 1929 Packard, not a Depression-era car--after all, the Great Depression did not truly take hold until the very end of 1930-early 1931. 1929 was still a year of generally tremendous, if not unsustainable, prosperity and optimism about the future. Time and research experience has taught me that the old adage about smoke being a trail back to fire works just as well when researching cars as anything else. In the 20's, the "Roaring 10's", Packard really wasn't all that different from anyone else, they watched the marketplace pretty closely. Sure, they sold a fair number of formal cars, even less-than-formal cars to the "brahmins", the "upper crust" the "400", but they had their share of younger, more daring customers as well, and by no means were cars of the 1920's, particularly those of a sporting character (and Packard built some of those as well, did they not??) all dark and somber. Packard's production numbers in the 20's were far greater than the number of available old dowagers and old, conservative men that somehow seem to be characterised as Packard's customer base. I also would submit that "art mirrors life", and find it rather doubtful that any automaker's advertising department would have allowed terribly fanciful color renderings of their cars in periodical ads if those renderings ran terribly counter to whatever corporate culture existed, be it Packard or whomever. That is why I made the suggestion as I did.

Art

[Guest imported_Speedster]

But, according to the '29 Packard color-charts, showing available colors, there were just no bright colors available. (Only browns, greens, dark-blue, gray and black) So it appears that about the only way to get red, white or yellow was to special order a Dietrich body. I don't think LeBaron did bright colors?

[West Peterson]

I only mentioned "especially during the Depression" because Dave Mitchell brought up the 1933 Packard stuff, which was the deepest part of the Depression. Still, the printer's ink pallet was wider than the painter's. I was told by an "expert" that because of contaminants in pigments, it was very hard to bring out extremely bright colors, such as yellows, greens and reds, which were almost "dirty" looking in comparison to what it looked like in the print ad.

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I only mentioned "especially during the Depression" because Dave Mitchell brought up the 1933 Packard stuff, which was the deepest part of the Depression. Still, the printer's ink pallet was wider than the painter's. I was told by an "expert" that because of contaminants in pigments, it was very hard to bring out extremely bright colors, such as yellows, greens and reds, which were almost "dirty" looking in comparison to what it looked like in the print ad. </div></div>

Actually, my information about paint pigments is a bit different. Pure, bright color pigments were certainly available then--I've seen far too many examples of paintwork on things other than cars from the era and earlier to think otherwise. However, automotive colors were almost always muted, often severely, to help forestall UV fading, which occurred anyway. A perusal of a paint chip book for cars from the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's shows this muting of colors--most of the chips are just plain awful colors on a page, but take on a completely different character when applied to a car, or just by taking the chip outdoors into natural light.

Art

[55PackardGuy]

I'm a fan of yellow cars, particularly big ones. Little econo-boxes tend to look like lemons, but a big yellow car makes a statement IMO. There are some especially nice lighter yellows and cream colors that look very elegant. Our '69 Electra was a stunner in the light Buick yellow of those years. Yellow is especially nice with white accents such as tops, rather than the more common black-on-yellow combination, I think.

[Dr Morbius]

A few years ago I saw a '28 or '29 Packard coupe that had a bright yellow body with a royal blue top and fenders. Sounds awful <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but I tell you it was a beauty !!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

..............Steve

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, my information about paint pigments is a bit different. Pure, bright color pigments were certainly available then--I've seen far too many examples of paintwork on things other than cars from the era and earlier to think otherwise. However, automotive colors were almost always muted, often severely, to help forestall UV fading, which occurred anyway. A perusal of a paint chip book for cars from the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's shows this muting of colors--most of the chips are just plain awful colors on a page, but take on a completely different character when applied to a car, or just by taking the chip outdoors into natural light. </div></div>

That makes a lot of sense, and might explain why some of those brightly colored show cars were repainted after the show.

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, my information about paint pigments is a bit different. Pure, bright color pigments were certainly available then--I've seen far too many examples of paintwork on things other than cars from the era and earlier to think otherwise. However, automotive colors were almost always muted, often severely, to help forestall UV fading, which occurred anyway. A perusal of a paint chip book for cars from the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's shows this muting of colors--most of the chips are just plain awful colors on a page, but take on a completely different character when applied to a car, or just by taking the chip outdoors into natural light. </div></div>

That makes a lot of sense, and might explain why some of those brightly colored show cars were repainted after the show. </div></div>

Cars shown at the various "Salons" (Packard was an invited exhibitor to many of these, where new cars were shown to the wealthy elite of the 1920's) seem to have been painted, even body styles created for particular salons--for example, far more conservative cars and colors for the New York and Philadelphia Salons, much brighter colors and sportier bodies as one went west--even the Chicago Salon was known for some pretty radical looking cars), with the Los Angeles Salon being a virtual showroom for the likes of Walter Murphy and Don Lee coachworks.

"Show Cars" displayed at the salons were available for immediate sale, as they stood, and many were. However, if the car didn't sell here, it might get repainted, perhaps retrimmed, even a touch of restyling by the coachbuilder, then shipped to the next one, and if necessary, the next one, and so on until sold.

I think that the key here is to bear in mind that serious conservatism in car colors didn't really take hold until the start of the Depression, due to the sudden incorrectness of flaunting one's personal affluence in the face of neighbors who were struggling just to survive, with the exception of Hollywood, where flashy cars of all makes and price levels were expected, in order to convey the glamor image (Joan Crawford probably enjoyed being chauffeured to work daily at MGM Studios in her all-white '33 Cadillac V16 Fleetwood Town Car).

It just depended on the whims of the buyer, and those whims were often governed by their particular social status, and the neighborhood/city/region in which they lived.

Art