Guest Art Griffin Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Hey, look at all of the snow across the Northern tier of states! Now why don't you judges come down where it's warmer the first weekend of March. Come to the 2005 National Winter Meet at Gainesville, Florida and help fill out the judging teams. You'll be glad you did!Art Griffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'm illegal untill I go to a Judges School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 We were planning to and work in a visit with my mom and dad in Fla. Now they have been home for almost two months because of my mom having eye surgeries (she's doing very well) so Bill says we won't be making the trip to Gainesville.Bummer. I was looking forward to going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppaquet Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 1937hd45You can send in your paperwork and $ now if you are planning to attend the school in either Philly or Gainesville.Patt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I may be changing jobs in the next two weeks, and if I do, I won't have any vacation time until 2006. If I don't change jobs, most of my vacation time will get eaten up hauling the car to the AGMN in Colorado. As much as I'd love to accept your wonderful offer, there's no way it can be done. Although the lure of warm weather is very appealing right now, the thought of sliding all through the hills with truck, trailer and car to get to that warm weather doesn't seem too appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Lay Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I wish I could leave for Florida now - I'm cold here in East Tennessee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Bookreader Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Rick, you may be cold in Tennessee but are you shoveling as we are in PA? And we don't even have the nice new magazine to read. Evidently our copy fell into a snowdrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I haven't judged or been to school in over 2 years, so I am no doubt so hopelessly out of date and so far removed from knowing anything about judging that retraining is probably hopeless.OK if I just come down to warm up and watch? hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Art Griffin Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Howard, I'm sure you could easily be retrained! You have been in the hobby for a long time and you know lots. So, you can't use that for an excuse! Just come to school in Philly or Gainesville. At any rate, you know you're welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Art ~ On another thread in this section there seemed to be lot of people saying that if you don't go to the schools every year, you just won't know enough to judge. I'm willing to accept that premise. I'm sure that in 2 years I have gotten so out of the judging loop that one little judging school can't possibly be sufficient to retrain me. At age 72 I think I best remain retired. Like Carson, I knew when it was time to step aside and let the next generation carry on.I'll be there for the sun and fun, but not to judge. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Art Griffin Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Howard, I'm catching up with you. I'll be 71 on Friday!Regards,Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 No Howard, 72 is still young enough to be a team captain. Besides, us youngins' out there could stand to learn a lesson or two from the old guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Howard, about that other thread, you said about "there seemed to be lot of people saying that if you don't go to the schools every year, you just won't know enough to judge." That's not the issue. The issue is that AACA is now requiring and says is going to enforce that you have to have been to a judging school within one year of the meet you are planning on judging at. The problem is some of us "WORKING PEOPLE" don't have the vacation time to make the extra day for the judging school. Depending on distances you may have to take 2 days off. I for one, only get 5 days a year with no sick days. Personally, if it was with 2 years would make it a lot easier for the working people to have a chance at catching a school at a meet fairly close by. With this rule, I see AACA losing active judges as well as the ones that have been inactive for a long time. Judging is a hobby within a hobby. It should be fun and the hobby should not be making it mandatory that you place your livelihood on the backburner to accommodate its requirements. That is how you lose the <span style="font-weight: bold">youth</span> in the organization. When the choice is the hobby or their job, they'll take the job. Let me ask you Howard, how many judges do you know that are under 65 years old? And of those, how many are under 45?Shouldn't we be trying to get the number of younger judges increased instead of placing restriction that will force them away? Or at least offer an alterative of some form, to make getting the schooling easier for those that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 David, I agree with everything you say. I should keep this opinion to myself, but you know me well enough to know that won't happen. In my humble opinion I feel that what the leadership thinks people get out of a 2 hour judging school is vastly overrated. I attended at least 34 of them, taught and created the judging schools for 4 years and was VP-Class Judging for 2 years with oversight responsibility for the training program. I was also the creator of the Apprentice Program back in 1985.I have formed my judgments relative to judging schools based on that background and the experience of 265 judging credits over a period of 34 years ending in 2002.The Schools give a general overview of AACA judging, sketchy at best. They do point out the changes made for the current year and stress the current year's hot button issues and deductions, which seem for the most part ro be forgotten the next year as they are superceeded by the NEW hot button issues. The test was a real shot in the arm when it was first used some 20 years ago, but today it is for the most part a 15-20 minute time filler of dubious value. Often some of the same questions are repeated year after year. It is no doubt useful for the newest judges, but for most old timers it conveys little information they do not already know. The school is basically a 2 hour requirement necessary to add another judging chip to the board.You can't make a judge in a 2 hour school, and to make a school mandatory every year puts an unrealistic burden on some judges for what they really will get out of it. The schools just aren't that good that every two years would not be sufficient. I can attend a school today and during the slide show point out the slides I made between 1979 and 1983. Many are still in the program. In the years '79-'83 I created a completely new slide program each year with a new theme, new text, all new slides and even in a couple of cases an accompanying voice tape to go with the slide program. It may not have been totally professional, but nobody seemed to go to sleep during the slide show. That is more than I can say for what I have observed in recent years up through 2002.I am retired from judging, but this year I plan to take in a judging school just to see what it's all about now. I will just attend but not fill out a card as I have no interest in becoming active again. Just curious. See some of you there. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 The CJE's are a more valuable tool to the judges once they go through the regular one enough times to catch all the regular stuff and it "sticks". I think that after a certain number of times of going to the basic school, unless there is a new one created, the more experienced judges should be able to come by and pick up the new book. Along with a list of any changes to it and where to find them to review before the judging begins. The CJE's are done the day of the show after the judges breakfast, which must be attended, so there would be the class per year to go to.People don't need to keep taking "Judging 101" every year. Especially the ones that are juding at several shows in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 <span style="font-weight: bold">Ahah!</span> A disciple has been found. Are there more out there and will anyone in high places listen?hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 All you had to do was flip over the right rock. Hopefully "logic will be tolerated" and people at the top will see the need to help the younger and still working judges. I was lucky, by the time I got into this wonderful part of the hobby Bill and I both had enough vacation time for judges schools not to be a problem. And at first they were not required, but were limited to one per year that credit could be gotten for. I understand that we want well trained judges out there on the field. Bill and I go to the regular class and a CJE every year. Sometimes we even go to an extra CJE even though we don't get credit for it, just to gain extra information. But the younger judges just don't have that much vacation to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hey, Shop Rat. You take over the preaching duties for a while. They have long since tired of listening to me. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 In jumping horses over fences we call something like this "raise it until they crash the bar", to find out how high they can jump. The AACA may just find out what the breaking point is of having people to show up to judge. I think they want to improve the quality of the judges, but by continuing to add to the requirements many who were on the fence anyway are going to drop out of the program. They can't continue to make it harder and harder on the ones that do show up. Sooner or later they will "crash the bar". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Howard, If you read the 2005 judging/newsletter question thread and/or judging school thread, you'll find there already is some action taking place. I too am tried of the "judging 101" and hopefully can help to change some of that and make some of the CJEs easier for the working people to attend. Please check out that thread and participate. I'd like to hear more form you about this either as a post or email me. The higher ups <span style="font-weight: bold">are</span> listening! I think this subject should move over to that thread before we get accused of highjacking this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 David ~ I already had read those threads, but being a retired judge they did not really pull my chain.It was this thread seeking judges for Gainsville that prompted me to post what I did. If there is a feeling by the moderators that my posts should be moved I will offer no objection, but my posts were, and still are, in direct response to Art Griffin's opening subject.Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Art Griffin Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Well, it won't be long now until we'll be enjoying the first National Meet of 2005. So, if you are a judge and haven't signed up to judge at Gainesville, FL on March 5th, be sure to register this week. And maybe I'll see lots of you at the AACA Annual Meeting in Philadelphia this weekend.Art GriffinCape Canaveral Region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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