1939 plymouth and dodge

[Joe Werner]

my dad has bought a 1939 plymouth and dodge 2 door sedans. are these cars becoming collectible as the years go by? are they worth restoring? what would be a n average ball park price of what there worth after they been restored?

[Shop Rat]

It would depend on how much money you would have to spend to restore them. We have a 1939 Dodge Deluxe 4-door and based on what it would take to restore it, we decided to spend less and just enjoy the car. We will spend the serious money on the 1963 1/2 Ford Falcon "Sprint" convertible as an AACA show car.

It is never wise to spend more to restore one than you can ever hope to get out of it.

[Mika Jaakkola]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is never wise to spend more to restore one than you can ever hope to get out of it. </div></div>

I do not agree with (but they think I'm a fool anyway... ) this

I believe it's more like a rule than exception, that you will spend more on restoring the car than it's worth.

I have a 1939 Dodge also. If you want to do EVERYTHING to get your car look like a new one you spend more money easily than you will never get from it.. But I think that if you really like the car and the hobby, it doesn't matter.

I have a friend that owns a car (repairing) shop, and thinks always like he must do profit with everything. He's into old Lincolns. But He's cars newer look like "show" cars. HE just fixes them up, paint and maybe some upholstery job. Even if he likes the car (and wants to keep it), he is afraid to spend more than the car is worth when it's finished..

My opinion is that ALL cars made before 70's are worth of restoring at the moment !!

Think about the cars made in 1939. They are almost 70-years old! You cannot get new ones like that anymore! Of course most of them will still be destroyed, rebuild to Street Rods etc etc. So I really think it doesn't harm to see more RESTORED '39 Dodges and Plymouths on the road!

About the cash spent/what the car is worth:

http://www.dc.turkuamk.fi/users/mjaakkol/images/hansmobiles/ValiantSignet/

Here's some pics of my '64 Valiant.

The car cost $700(in Finland). Transmission is missing, quarters and doors are rusted out, interior torn, chrome bad, weatherstriping gone, tires bad etc etc.

It will cost VERY much more to restore this one than it will ever be worth! Only a good paint job costs $3000-$5000

But I have decided to restore it to my son (he is 2,5 -years old) So I don't have to rush

And of course, I don't have to spend all the money at once.

[Shop Rat]

We are both retired and can't afford to spend more on a car than it will ever be worth. We know people that did and wish they hadn't. The woodgraining alone would cost more than a car like that will bring. Those cars are just not that high on the list of what people are looking for. We don't plan to do anything to ruin the integrity of the Dodge, but we are going to fix it up within what it could bring and enjoy it.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Joe,

In general, for a long time, two-door cars (whether sedans or coupes) have been considered "more desireable" than their four-door counterparts...

The '39 Plymouth is generally regarded as a handsome car, especially with its "square" headlights...

Your question is a pretty subjective one...I think that these cars are generally worth fixing-up and saving/enjoying. I would rather see something other than Fords or Chevys at shows or tooling down the road.

Again, the less work you have to do to the vehicle, the better-off you'll be.

Mechanical parts for flathead MoPar sixes are common and relatively inexpensive. These cars were well-engineered and durable.

If there's a lot of rust repair to be done and you have to pay someone else to do it, that will run into money, as will having trim work re-chromed. (One advantage Dodge and Plymouth have over their more expensive Chrysler & De Soto cousins is that the Dodge and Plymouth used mostly stainless steel trim for grilles and mouldings, instead of pot-metal. The trim on the "cheap" cars holds-up better ! )

As for replicating the lithographed woodgrain on dashboards or garnish mouldings, to have it done correctly is expensive...about $2000 for the average car. But, that could be saved for a later point in the restoration process and in the mean time, the trim could be painted a color that harmonizes with the rest of the car's color scheme.

I think it would be wise to survey the whole vehicle and determine it's present condition and what work is needed, and what you want it to be in the end...do you want a first-class trophy winner, or a presentable driver to use and enjoy?

A conservative "what is it worth" top-dollar estimate for either car in top condition I would place at no more than $10,000 each. ( This is based on prices I see in Hemmings, and results posted from regional car corrals at shows and auctions. Forget about the ridiculous sums you see being paid at the Barret-Jackson Auctions on Speed-vision.).

A flat-head Chrysler product with more than 60,000 miles on the engine is probably ready for an engine overhaul. If the brake system has not been completely re-built within the last five years, plan on doing that, and expect that to run between $400-$500, depending upon how much of the work you do yourself. New tires & tubes are going to run about $400-$600.

If you're planning to redo the interior, plan on replacing ALL the rubber window seals (windshield, rear window and quarter windows) and glass as necessary...these rubber seals shrink and leak over the years ( especially the windshield - this is why the front floors rot!)...buy only the best rubber (Steele) and plan on that running between $500 & $1,000. If you don't replace the rubber, you're going to find your new seats, door panels, and carpeting getting wet, getting stained, and smelling "funky".

A stock pre-war Plymouth or Dodge is likely to have a 4.1 or 4.3 rear-end in it, and will be happiest cruising at 55 mph or less. In peak condition, they will do more, but they won't do it forever, and they won't be happy about it.

(Voice of experience speaking... )

I've just tried to offer some general guidelines... it's up to you to look at your skill sets and pocket-book and reckon that against what the subject car needs...

After twenty-five years of playing around with old cars, I've found that my realistic scenario is taking a salvageable piece and bringing it back to being a presentable(?) driver...I do not have the deep pockets, facilities or skills to create perfect trophy cars...and if I WAS able to do so, I probably wouldn't want to drive them for fear of damage...

Good luck with the MoPars ...I hope they're within your means to fix them up and enjoy them!

[GunnyRec]

Man there is some very good advice hear. However I am going to have to disagree just a little with Madam "shop rat" just a little. I think there is one aspect of this whole Old Car thing that many don't seem to understand and that is the "WOW" factor. That "WOW" factor can come from something as simple as just owning one of these old cars, driving up to the store to pick up a few things takes on a whole new deminsion when your driving a 1939 Plymouth or Olds or Buick or whatever. The pleasure can be a reward of it's own. Sometimes this reward cannot be measured in money alone. But you also don't have to have a 400 point show car to drive to the local 7-11 for milk. But also Ms Shop Rat, if it was money and money alone that was the determining factor and how much we could make or lose on a car purchase or restoration, then none of us would ever buy any car no matter the year or anything else. As an example I own a Dodge Ram 1 ton Dually that I payed over $40,000.00 brand new. On that day I bought this truck and drove out of there driveway, at the moment I passed that sidewalk I lost in real money due to depreciation a min of 20% that is $8,000.00 for driving 20 feet. That money is gone and gone forever unless some day the start restoring 2004 Dodge Trucks, don't think I will stick around to see that.

Gunny

[Shop Rat]

Gunny, There is the wow factor. And that is what we plan to do, but just not back to orginal. We can't afford to do that for something like a '39 Dodge. Everyone, except someone that has more money than they can ever spend, has a bottom line to deal with. We just had to make a choice. Spend the bigger bucks on a car that might at least hold it's value, with depreciation of course, or spend it on a car that very few people will want unless it is "dolled up" some. Sad to say, street-rods, modifieds and "hot rods" are what is attracting more people right now. Truthfully, I would have never bought it. But Bill wanted a project car to work on, and because the engine was "coked" he got it pretty cheap. We spent $680 at Hershey several years ago on a correct set of NOS running boards for it. They are the only ones we have ever seen. He works on it as he can. The chassis is done as well as the engine is rebuilt and the new brake lines are in. The rest is just sitting waiting to be worked on.

I tell him that he can't die until that car is done, because if he does I am calling the junk man to come get it. (That sure raises the hair on the back of his neck.)

Modern iron, as he calls it, loses value the minute you sign on that line. Sad, huh? Then twenty-five years later it's value can go way beyond what was spent for it, if it is among the most desireable vehicles.

I think you should stick around.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Joe...

I have no idea what the '39 Plymouth would be worth fully restored. The old car hobby prices have, and, continue to fluctuate that no one, except, a person who would be specifically desiring the car, could pay higher amounts.

Mika, Frank, and, Gunny...

Excellent comments.

I like to equate this hobby to "golfing". Pay $500-600 for one state of the art Driver today, when, 20 years ago, a whole golf bag priced at $500-600 was insane to the average wallet. Play golf for, say, 40 years 2-3 times per week, dues, green fees, 19th Hole, and, so on...what monetary value do you have when you cannot play anymore? The only thing of value you walk away with is a huge amount of people you met and had great memories sharing one's "golf" years.

Gunny stated it clearly...WOW! Just have a great time and don't count on an unknown profit selling the hobby when you cannot play anymore.

In my case, had the TR6 since new. Never had a need to resore it, rather, spent enough keeping this and that refurbished. After 32 years, I still would not realize profit in today's dollar value. (Lost money is the word I was looking. Just like green fees...but, what a profit in meeting great people.)

If someone wants to pay me $30,000 for a set of golf clubs, of which, I paid $225 in 1972, give me a call. They also could be used for fireplace stokers, tomato plant stakes, prop up the 'ole hood to see if a judge notices... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Regards,

Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Mika Jaakkola]

In my comment above I didn't mean that everybody make a ground up-frame-off restoration.

OK, everybody has a choice to do what they want.

It shouldn't be about the lack of money if You like old cars. There's always options to make it cheaper to look like new. And that's OK. The most important thing is to be a part of this great hobby.

I was just meaninig that You shouldn't think that "hmm..If I put money on this and this part, will I get it back?" Propably, You won't.

But If you really like the car it doesn't matter.

Gunny, that RAM is one of my favorites! Can you share a picture?(even it's a new one)

I've seen one BIG Dodge Ram truck with Cummins Turbo Diesel here in Turku. It really is a head turner

Those 2-door Dodges and Plymouths are really a little bit more rare than those 4 door models.

I guess you could check Hemmings Motor News (www.hmn.com or was it www.hemmings.com) and Ebay for prices. (www.ebay.com). But I think that the $10000 mentioned above is a good estimation.

[Shop Rat]

No that is not my point either. But just as you would not sink a million dollars in fixing up a house, more than it will ever bring for the neighborhood it is in, you don't sink more money in a car than it will ever hope of bringing. We all count on depreciation over the years that we have them. But if you spend a million dollars restoring a car that will never bring more than say $25,000 that is just nuts.

That is why we are going the route you suggest. Spruce it up, do what we can to keep as much restored to original as we can and make the rest very nice and drive it and enjoy it.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Shop Rat, Gunny, et al...

I guess the cautionary point here is to determine at the outset "how much money you can afford to "lose" or "throw away and not miss"...

Whether it's spending $40k on a new dually pick-up, or $40k to restore to factory-new an old-timer that will only fetch 1/4th that if the owner had to dump it in a hurry...

My mantra for those who feel they can't afford to "do it all original" at once (or even in their lifetime...) is to do what you can, do it well, and try avoid making irreparable changes in the vehicle - and save the stock parts you replace with modern ones. The next owner of your car might just have the resources to do it "right". And try to enjoy yourself too !

Paint and interiors can easily be changed or "corrected"...

Chopped bodies and running-gear ectomies are a lot harder to undo...especially when Dr. Frankenstein ( Frahn-kensteen?) has consigned the unwanted original parts to the scrap metal dealer...

And I have heard it from a writer for a number antique car periodicals that the days of the street rod are numbered, and the stock antique will be making a comeback...

Whether or not that is really the case remains to be seen...

I think it is safe to say that most of us who are in this as "hobbyists" should not look at our current or prospective projects in terms of "making money on them"...unless we're in a position to pick-up a restoreable, reasonably desireable piece for little or nothing, and turn around and re-sell it with a minimal investment of money and/or time, we're not likely to "make money" on a given vehicle.

My wife frequently asks me "why don't you sell all your old cars (numbering nearly 20) and take all that money and: a) pay-off all our credit cards, or get one really nice antique." I have trouble trying to get her to understand that all the four-door sedans I have aren't really worth all that much, although they're not yet junkyard material. ( And, I don't think I could pick just one "really nice antique" ! )

I think Peter made a succinct point with the golf analogy that for most of us, antique cars are a hobby ( even to the point of obsession), not a livelihood, and therefore should not be expected to be a money-making opportunity.

If you plan to "make money on old cars", then (like any successful business enterprise) you'd better develop a sound business plan and stick to it...

After twenty-plus years of turning wrenches on old iron, I think it IS wise to carefully consider your own resources vs. the needs of a given project before you commit, so that you don't make yourself miserable (because you can't finish the piece) AND broke (because it ate all your money)...

I don't mean to take all the fun out of it, but I have gotten caught in the old "over-investment/ gotta dump it/ can't get my money out it" squeeze play a few times, and I try to be more careful nowadays.

And with heating oil running twice as much as it was last winter, I don't have as much "disposable income" as I might've once had.