Removing the engine on my 47 Questions

[Bill Stoneberg]

After determinig that I need to pull my engine, I am in the midst of getting it ready to pull.

On other cars, I have removed the engine and transmission as one unit. I dont want to do that this time.

From reading the manual it looks like on my 47 the flywheel stays wit the clutch assembly when the engine comes out. Is this true ? Where are the bolts to hold the flywheel to the crank ?

On the back of the engine are 4 Large bolts, are those the only bolts holding the engine to the clutch assembly ?

Any help you can give me in figuring out on splitting engine / clutch / transmission would be a big help.

I have all the easy stuff off, I am down to this and then it can come out.

[The Old Guy]

You will find that it is MUCH easier to remove the engine and trans as a unit. All that is required is disconnecting the torque tube, and linkage. If you want to remove the engine ,and leave the trans in, you will need to remove the 4 bolts holding the trans to the bell housing. That will require a lot of room ,as you must clear the input shaft in order to get it out. The clutch bolts to the flywheel, and the only way to remove the flywheel is to either take the pan off and the rear main cap and knock the bolts out and rotate the engine to do this,,or pull the crank. The bell housing can't be removed until the flywheel is,as there are 2 bolts behind the flywheel so believe me it is MUCH easier to pull the engine and trans as a unit.

[Guest]

this is true, even if you can get the flywheel nuts off, the bell housing is curved so you cannot pull the flywheel forward to clean the studs that hold it on. There is no wiggle room!

And those to bell housing bolts bhind the flywheel are a pisser!

[Matt Harwood]

Bill,

I pulled the engine and clutch as a unit in my '41 and left the transmission in the car (mostly because I erroneously belived that the torque tube wouldn't let go of the torque ball on the transmission). It actually was no big deal, just like a modern car. The input shaft of the transmission goes through the clutch plate and into the pilot bearing in the crank, just like any other car.

The hassle is the bellhousing, which fully encloses the flywheel, and the clutch fork. I started out thinking I could just unbolt the flywheel like on a modern car, but I found that it would not come off until the flywheel and clutch were also removed. So I rotated the engine and loosened the clutch bolts one at a time, then loosened the flywheel bolts, and removed the clutch, flywheel, bellhousing and fork as a unit. Perhaps this wasn't the best way, but it didn't really slow me down any in the grand scheme of things. Once the unit was on the bench, it was easy to disassemble.

Here's more info on how I did it:

Engine & Transmission Removal (3 parts)

Hope this helps! I'm really sorry to hear about the damage to the engine, but hope that you'll put the straight-8 back in!

Regards.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Joe,

After reading your post yesterday afternoon, I crawled back under the car and just laid there and looked as opposed to reading the shop manual.

I can see now how to remove everything as one unit. It looks much easier then trying to split it at the clutch or transmission.

So thanks to all, I will see how I do next Saturday.

Matt, Yours was easier, you had the front end off. I am going to try mine with all the sheet metal still on. I will have to get pleny of protection.

[Matt Harwood]

Just make sure you get <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">all</span></span> the bolts holding the torque tube to the torque ball flange! I removed 5 and thought that was all of them (the 5 bolts I removed were spaced as if there were only 5). There's a sixth at the top of the flange that was unevenly spaced between two other symmetrically-spaced holes. I could have done a lot of damage pounding on that flange with one bolt still remaining! Fortunately a friend suggested that I double check to be sure. Duh...

[Bill Stoneberg]

Ok,

More questions.... Laying under the car looking at the nuts, bolts etc I see two braces that look like they need to come off, one right at the back of the trans and the other at the back of the engine. Do these come off or can I lift the frans enough to get the bolts out ?

I also am splitting it at the back of the torque tube, it also looks like it could be unbolted at the right behind the torque ball. Where do I break it ?

Bill

[Patrick W. Brooks]

Hello Bill: My recollection is that the brace immediately behind the transmission must be removed and is bolted on. However, the brace behind the engine is welded to the frame. Post your findings and success. Is the radiator in the car? I always remove the entire front clip to pull the engine as this prevents damage and allows me to do some work in this area while the engine is out. Hope this helps. Patrick W. Brooks

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also am splitting it at the back of the torque tube, it also looks like it could be unbolted at the right behind the torque ball. Where do I break it ?

Bill </div></div>

Don't split the torque tube at the differential! It is extremely difficult to put it back together properly. My shop manual says not to do it and Doug Seybold warned that it would be a nightmare if I separated the pumpkin from the torque tube.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you. There is a flange connecting the torque ball to the torque tube (this is where those 6 bolts I wrestled with are located), and this is easy to access and separate. This is where I'd recommend separating the two. Separating farther forward on the transmission is not as easy because of the location of the universal joint and torque ball. Look:

Note that the tailshaft and torque ball have to stay together unless you want to remove the universal joint and press out the main shaft. If you aren't having torque ball leakage problems, I'd leave it alone and just separate it at the flange.

Hope this helps.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Matt, Thanks for the pictures, I am going to split it where the 6 bolts are.

I will have to pull the brace though.

Pat, Pull the front clip ? I was trying hard not to do that. No room in the garage for the parts and I really hate to pull them. I have the radiator out but not the A/C condenser and the pusher fan yet. I think if I get those out of the way, I can get the engine out.

Thanks for all you help. I will see what I find tonight.

[Guest]

the rear and tube come apart with the four bolts that you can see from the outside.

The interior driveshaft inside the tube has a pin that keeps the shaft attached to the rear end.

So, you would have to unbolt the tube from the rear end, then side the tube foward to expose the drive shaft pin and then knock it out. (More trouble, then just unbolting the sway bar, and pulling the rear axel back with a come-a-long.

On the re-install, you just reverse the come-a-long, and reattach your ball joint on the tranny.

You do not need to disassemble the ball joint from the tranny like the photo above, the ball joint cover plate is all you need to brake the tube at the rer of the tranny.

NOTE: when you pull the tranny, a small spacer ring the size of a half-dollar will pop out and hit the floor. You must reinstall that ring, or you'll have to do the job again!

Ask me how I know this!

[Charles2]

Unhook the driveline at the flange just behind the torque ball assembly; as I recall, there are four bolts holding it together. I don't think you'll be able to pull the engine without taking the front clip off. The transmission and clutch housing add at nearly two feet to the length of the engine assembly. This means that the engine/clutch housing/transmission/torque ball assembly has to come quite a ways forward to clear the firewall. I think that in the long run, you will find it easier to pull the clip, in pieces if necessary, and then pull the engine once you have the room you need. If you get the engine part way out then find you don't have the room you need, you'll have to reengage the torque tube splines and flange before you'll be able to set the engine on the mounts again. Then, you get to remove the front clip. When I lifted the engine-transmission assembly out of my 40 I was really impressed with how LONG the thing was; longer than the car is wide. You will want as much room as you can get. Good luck!

[Guest 53and61]

I just want to re-iterate Matt's direct advice and Tommy's implied advice that breaking at the tube-to-differential junction is a bad idea. I've had to do that twice on '50 and '53 rear ends (for reasons unrelated to engine removal), and it was a dog. Tommy's description is correct, in my experience, except that the drive shaft is pressed onto the pinion gear splined shaft. A hydraulic press is necessary to separate the two, at least in the '50 and '53. It's possible that in '40 the parts were not press-fit, but '40-'55 are supposedly identical, so I wouldn't count on an easy separation in a '40. On top of all that, if the shaft is sprung even slightly in disassembly, it must be straightened.

[Bill Stoneberg]

I had no intention of splitting the torqu tube at the differential. Been there, done that already. It took an act of God and lots of heat to get that pin out.

I have split it right behind the torque ball, where the torque ball and the torque tube meet. It is already apart and waiting for Saturday so me and all my friends can get that engine clutch and transmission out.

If I can convince someone to take pictures, I will post them. Ought to be more then alot of laughs.

[Charles2]

Christopher. The joint I was referring to, and that I believe other posters were referring to, is located about four inches behind the torque ball assembly and is the separation point recommended by Buick for removing either the engine or the rear axle assembly. If you remove the four bolts holding the front end of the torque tube to the the rear of the torque ball assembly, the front of the drive shaft slides right out of the universal joint splines. Goes back together about as easily as well. If you separate at the joint on the torque ball itself, you will probably need to fit new shim gaskets to the torque ball; they don't usually come out in one piece. I am wondering how anyone got the impression that any of the previous posters were suggesting splitting at the rear axle joint. That would be doing it the hard way, at best.

[Guest 53and61]

Thanks. I agree 110%. I may have misinterpreted, but I thought the rear end of the tube at the differential crept into the discussion. BTW, when I mentioned '40, it should have been '47, but same diff (and that ain't erential).

[Bill Stoneberg]

Matt started the whole thing about the differential in his picture post.

I never had an idea of splitting it there.

I aprreciate all the advice and suggestions. Its great getting a wide array.

Isn't posting fun

[Matt Harwood]

Yeah, I'll take the blame for knocking it off track here. I read Bill's statement about splitting it <span style="font-style: italic">"at the back of the torque tube"</span> to mean, well, the back of the torque tube at the differential. I recalled disassembling my car and how tempting those four bolts holding the torque tube to the differential looked--<span style="font-style: italic">so easy to remove!</span> I thought that perhaps Bill wanted to avoid dealing with the torque ball and the difficulties surrounding resealing it.

But realizing that Bill knows his way around cars pretty well, I recognized that I probably misunderstood him and tried to get back on track by suggesting the separation at the torque ball flange, which is clearly the best place to separate the driveline for an engine removal.

Sorry about that, but it looks like he got the information he needed, if in a round-about way. <span style="font-style: italic">Mea culpa!</span>

[Mrbuick714]

If you had a 48,engine mounts make 41 Buick compound carburetion difficult to install. With your 47,putting compound carburetion would be a breeze,ALL BUICK and neat. (maybe you could be included in the registry?)