NTX5467 Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 The culprit is "wheel flex". Some wheels and sizes are more prone to it that others. <P>We have a '66 Chrysler with 14x5.5" steel wheels. After the vehicle aged, the right hand front wheel cover would rotate, but those earlier wheels had little bumps on the rim and similar tangs on the wheel cover near the valve stem to stop the rotation of the wheel cover. After watching this situation for some time, my fix was to remove the valve stem extension, position the cover with the stem hole away from the valve stem hole, and reinstall. None of the other wheels had that happen to them. It was no problem to pop the wheel cover off to check the air pressure (which had no problems loosing air anyway). I also tried bending the tangs and all of that to no avail.<P>The problem existed with either bias ply tires or bias-belted tires. I have a similar '67 Chrysler and have had no problems in that area on that car.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 interseting. Thank you. What do you think causes this, old age of the rims, or old design/technology mixed with new, radial tires (which I have on my car)? I am thinking using radial tires could exacerbate the problem by stressin the wheels more due to their superior grip on the road surface?<P>I observe that I only have these problems with my front wheels which I would think are stressed more than the back wheels due to the job they perform turning the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 having stinless sleeves on the valve stems might be a good idea too. And they look nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 One of the wheel covers on my 54 used to loosen up and fall off occasionally. I bent the friction "wheel grabbers" on the cover out and the thing is staying on. However, now it seems to rotate on the wheel as I drive. After a bit of a drive, the tire on that wheel is flat. On inspection I found that the wheel cover had moved and cut through the stem! <BR>Any explantions and/or ideas how to fix this?<P>Thanques<BR>Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I had the same problem on the fronts of my 1953 Olds.<P>It also had the full wheel covers.<P>I just had a good supply of average quality wheel covers available, and used the good ones for shows.<P>Scott Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 The 1952 Buick Product Service Bulletins (BPS) offer a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Stainless sleeves might look nice, but there's already a steel sleeve under the rubber in the valve stem (to hold the valve stem insert mechanism).<P>Wallace Wade, a vintage vehicle tire dealer in Dallas, advises against using radial tires on wheeels for which they were not designed. He claims to have seen them split from the different stresses that radials put on the wheel. Personally, I've known people who used radials on vehicles of earlier vintages without any problems. I know that many HD truck wheels used to be spec'd for radials or non-radials in earlier years.<P>Easiest way out for me was to just reposition the wheel cover on the wheel and then remove the wheel cover to check/add air. Some wheels just seem to be more prone to flex than others, especially under cornering situations.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad54 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 For those of us who don't have the TSB from the early '50s, could you enlighten us? I've noticed the exact same thing on one of the wheels for my '54 as well.<BR>Aftermarket screw-in metal valve stems will work--the little metal sleeve inside for the schrader valve doesn't extend that far into the rubber valve.<BR>As for the wheels splitting, might those be the old riveted wheels? I really can't see a one-piece forged or stamped wheel ring splitting from air pressure and a radial tire. Rusting through, sure, but just from air pressure? <BR>I'd very much like to know about the factory's solution to the rotating hub caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 The very first thing to check is the tyre pressures, if the pressure is to high the wheel will get more of the shock etc, But even if they still move you will have to make a positive locking device for them ( a good idea anyway) check out bonnet to boot they custom made nice locks for my eldorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 It would be most appreciated if Mwthuselah or someone else could post the essesence to the 52 service bulletin that addresses this problem. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 11, 2002 Author Share Posted April 11, 2002 Mr. Wade did not elaborate on which construction was used on the wheels he said he'd seen the rims split on, just that they were on earlier, non-radial wheels. I suspect he meant "earlier" to mean pre-60s.<P>Up until that point, I hadn't heard of that problem and that's the only place I've heard of it. But he's seen more of those things than I have. I mentioned it for information purposes in case someone might have some mysterious air loss issue.<P>On the Chrysler wheel that I had the rotation problem with, ther were two cast "bumps", one on each side of the valve stem, obviously there to prevent the wheel cover from rotating. Plus corresponding tabs on the cover itself. These tabs on the cover and the wheel, even when the tabs on the cover were bent to have a better stop, were ineffective in proventing that problem with that wheel/cover interface. It was only on that one wheel too.<P>That's when I figured out the best thing was to remove the valve stem extension and reposition the cover with the valve stem hole away from the valve stem. It looks a little different that way (with no valve stem in the hole), but better than a flat tire.<P>Just my experiences.<BR>NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Actually they made stainless sleeves foruse on the early 50s Buicks for this problem. Actually, too, all the manufacturers had the same problem to some extent and these were the cure. I got a set from a friend who had a new '51 Buick and kept them when he traded in the car.<BR>Also, if you are running radial tires there is no hope of keeping those caps on. One guy I know bought the reproduction chrome wire wheels for his '52 Special to solve that problem. Sure was an expensive fix, especially since those wheels were available in 1952, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 regarding my 54 that had the moving hubcap problem that kicked off this discussion. Let me report that the wheels "look" very good. They still have most of the original paint in them even. <P>Only one of the front wheels is consistently throwing one cap, then, with clip adjustments, it did not fall off, just moved and cut the stem. I could switch caps to see if the problem is with the wheel or cap. <P>Another related issue. Both front tires need air added on a regular basis, whereas the rear tires never take any. All four tires are Dayton radials. Might the air loss from the front tires be due wheel flex with radials too? Until this discussion I had been assuming the cause was probably with the seal between the tires' beads the rims, due to dirt, rust, or both.<P>Any wisdom tyo share on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 By the way, the wheels in question are rivetted rather than welded if matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 One diagnostic move might be to put tubes in the tires that loose air consistently to see if it stops. <P>Not being familiar with those particular wheels, are they rated for tubeless tires? Just curious . . . <P>If the rims were clean and such when the tires were installed, air loss there from wheel flex should not usually happen, but loose or not screwed-in far enough valve cores might be the culprit.<P>Worst case scenario might be to take the wheels off, clean them, and get them magnafluxed.<P>Just some additional thoughts.<BR>NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 I use plastic tie wraps to keep the hub caps in place. The transparant type you almost don't see.<BR>Furthermore the hubcaps made a rattling noise, which I stopped by putting small ribbons of Geffer-tape at the centre-cone, behind the wings that keep the cone in place.<BR>Hope this helps you, after all the useful advise from others.<BR>Gie<BR>The Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 why not take a stick welder and dab a couple of [censored] on the rim of the wheel to keep the wheel cover from rotating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 CAUTIION: if u decide to stick weld the [censored] then make sure the ground terminal of the arc welder if connected to the WHEEL ONLY. if u connect it back to the drum or something it is quite possible to ruin the wheel bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 This topic is going to be more common as more people try radials in place of bias ply's. <BR>The forces involved in wheel flex are considerable and the problem may not be solved by bending out the wheel disk retainers. By the way this used to happen with cars in the 50's too, when the steel wheel was cheaply made and flexed with bias ply's too. My father had a '56 Plymouth that had wheel disks that cut through the valve stems. <BR>Some wheel companies are prviding a service where they section the old wheel and weld a new rim on it that can handle the stress. <BR>My feeling is that if the problem is this extreme that one should try to find a modern rim that will fit your car (good luck to some of us) or reel in our expectations with regard to using radials. After all if your car is experiencing severe wheel flex with radials one might be solving one problem (road handling) and inheriting another. Just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 My 63 wildcats hubcaps constantly flew off until my old man showed me his old fix- take a pair of side-cutters and crimp and create ridges on all the tangs similiar to sharp teeth without cutting through. It worked for me and I've yet to walk back up a roadway in search of my hubcap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Here's My fix when i Finished restoring my 56 special this may sound odd but I didn't want the paint on my wheels to be chiped when i put on the wheelcover so I put on Duct Tape around back of the cover and folded it over the tangs the covers not only fit tighter but the tape acted like a sealso the bolts didn't rust over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Here's My fix when i Finished restoring my 56 special this may sound odd but I didn't want the paint on my wheels to be chiped when i put on the wheelcover so I put on Duct Tape around back of the cover and folded it over the tangs the covers not only fit tighter but the tape acted like a seal so the bolts didn't rust over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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