Problem and solution for 55-56 Windshield

[WCraigH]

Packard-buddy Paul in Las Vegas ordered a new windshield and rubber surround back in January 2004. When both arrived, the windshield did not fit by about 1/2" (1/4" top and bottom) in the vertical dimension. Phone calls to the manufacturer were to no avail. The new windshield measured about 1/8" shorter than the replacement, so the problem was the rubber part.

In his book "Revived from the Dead" (1955 400 Restoration), Billy Kennerly described the same problem with new windshield fit. He "solved" the problem by fitting a rubber insert into the top and bottom channel between the windshield glass and the rubber surround. This did not seem a good solution to Paul because he felt that there was insufficient capture of the windshield by the rubber.

So, Paul applied a couple of large tubes of JB Weld to the top and bottom of the windshield to "enlarge" it by the required 1/4" top and bottom. This effort took 3 days of work: apply, scrape, grind, apply, etc. in a series of build ups. Here's a sample of the finished fix (the windshield fits snugly now):

[bernardi]

Craig -

Please give Paul my congratulations for a job well done. Where there is a will, there is a way! From whom was the rubber surround ordered? My windshield is OK but the rubber is fragile and leaks.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Bernardi, Steele rubber lists the windshield gasket,

it was $180.00 in 1998. Sorry - I have an old catalog.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I'm confused. Your first paragraph leads me to believe that the replacement windshield is smaller in the verticle than the original by 1/2 inch???? THAT would indicate a CONVERTIBLE windshield. So why is the seal being blamed for the problem????? Seems to me that the seal should come long enuf to be cut to fit assuming it is not a continuous loop seal. If i remeber rite the manual indicates that the seal has to be cut to fit for length around the WS.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

who supplied the WS. ???

nOTE: on old hardened window seals and other rubber parts i use 10w-30 or 10w-40 motor oil. Just mop it on with a rag on a hot day. Its done wonders for the seals on my car.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Why did he not look into a 55-57 Chevy windshield as retro fit?????

[bernardi]

Randy -

Thanks for the Steele lead. I'll see what they charge now. I believe the price Kantor quotes is about $225 or $250.

PackardV8 - I appreciate the thought. The rubber is literally too fragile - I touched it gently and small chunks fell out. I'll try the oil on another seal to see what happens.

A friend once told me that the Mercedes 300 SL group had some chemical, apparently used in the manufacture of synthetic rubber, that would renew the seals. The manufacturer refused to sell it to me, tho.

As a temporary repair, a restorer advised me to put black silicone sealer over the rubber. I tried it, but was not too successfully.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm confused. Your first paragraph leads me to believe that the replacement windshield is smaller in the verticle than the original by 1/2 inch???? (snip)</div></div>

To clarify: The replacement windshield is the correct size, only being 1/8" shorter than the one that was removed. The 1/2" (or maybe 3/8") difference in the fit into the windshield FRAME is entirely in the rubber.

Paul ordered the rubber from Kanter, but Steele Rubber manufactured it and it was with them that the subsequent conversations occured, with no solution offered.

BTW, Paul has a 1955 Caribbean convertible and is well aware of the difference in windshields.

IMO, Paul did a magnificent job on this fix and that is just one example that shows the level of craftmanship he has brought to bear on his 1956 Exec project. I saw this new, but modified windshield being installed on Monday (two days ago) and it fits perfectly now.

I didn't ask where Paul bought the new windshield, but he did say it cost $775 and the rubber was around $250. So with the 24hours of labor added by Paul to fix it (at $0.10/hour, the usual rate for us hobbyists), Paul has well over $1,000 in just the windshield.

[joe kastellic]

you,can restore the rubber parts in your car by appling white vinagar i have done this in the past i think by using motor oil that you would destroy the rubber because of the detergent package in the oil joe

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I'll try some white vinigar too. The oil i use is not to restore the rubber but rather just to soften hardened rubber.

I STILL conjecture that a 55-57 chevy Windshield will fit and maybe at a lot cheaper price with wider availability. But, i've not priced one either.

[Guest]

Motor oil can destroy rubber. I have had some success softening dried rubber by soaking it in brake fluid. Brake fluid and rubber are compatible since the seals in wheel cylinders are rubber. Oil and rubber are not! Caution! do not let brake fluid get on paint or it will discolour or remove it.

[ChicagoPack]

Well, here's one of my naive questions. I remember seeing on television a couple of month's ago on a "restoring a classic" type show a method for polishing a dull and lifeless windshield. Anyone have any luck with same? The windshield on my car is pretty "hazed" up from fifty years of weather, road salts, etc. otherwise it is in good shape (discounting of course the bullet hole -- love to know that story!). Thanks Fred

[joe kastellic]

fred,i hope that some one out there knows how to remove haze i have some on my vent window , i know that some jewlery rouge wil remove marks from a windsheild but you have to be very carefull or permanet damage will result.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) a method for polishing a dull and lifeless windshield. Anyone have any luck with same? (snip)</div></div>

I have a collector car restorer buddy here in Pahrump, NV who used to own a glass shop. I have asked him the same question. His response was that while one may be able to polish out haze and even minor scratches, the windshield will NOT be optically correct after the polishing.

I have tried to polish out some bad scratches on the windshield of my 1976 Firebird turbo-project car, but with no success. Paul in Las Vegas tried polishing a section of the rear window on his 56 Exec project that had been accidentally splattered by a welder, but to no avail. A "google" search turns up several products, but their efficacy is unknown. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If anyone actually had success polishing a windshield, it'd be great to know how they did it.

[ProSource]

I would be interested in remaking the windshields from an original used one if there is enough demand. I am aware that the windshields did not fit properly. It is most likely an AGP (made in Peru) or Safevue MFG (made in South Africa) which has stopped making American classic car windshields back about 10 years ago. Our family use to own Lo-can Glass International (1953-2002) before selling it out in 2002 to a large conglomerate, TCG International. They are a Canadian company that has retail shops in USA as well. (They operate under Speedy Glass, Novus Glass & Windshield repair..)I started back up in 2004 under the name ProSource Glass International. We have specialized in antique, classsic and special interest automotive glass since the 1970's... if say 15-20 people wanted a new windshield, they could be made "reasonable" for about 500-600 a piece, I would keep a few for stock. It is not economical to make less than 25. We have several high quality manufacturers that can produce these, probably in Europe.

I can even do the carribean windshield which i know has not been avail for several years.

In regards to polishing out scratches, there are 2 good products out there, unfortunately both are expensive unless you are doing enough to make it cost effective. One system is made by Glass Weld out of Oregon, the other was the one our old "parent company" that bought us out owns which is called Autostock Scratch Removal. I can tell you that both systems are expensive. It is great for getting out some surface or fairly deep scratches but haze, delamination or heavy wear is not going to come out without distorting the glass or in many cases cracking the glass from excessive heat/friction.. a new windshield solves that..

If there is interest, please email me directly at:richardt@prosourceglassintl.com

Thanks and hope info was useful

Richard

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Thanks ProSource for the offer. Are u making 55-57 Chevy windshields at this time???

[RO]

It would certainly be nice to kmow IF '55-57 Chevy windshields would interchange because we all know '55-57 Chevies and parts are as plentiful as leaves on the ground in the fall. When I go to big swapmeets, it's all chevy stuff, a good bit of Ford stuff, a mopar part thrown in here and there, and that's usually about it.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Yes RO that is true. But even more advantageous is that 55-57 (maybe even 58) Chevy windshields are most likely being repopped and selection in tint available not to mention (i'm guessing) the price alot cheaper. I researched this some by making a pattern out of linoleum.

[Guest]

RO ~ I don't know where the idea got started that a 55-57 Chevy W/S would fit a 56-56 Packard, but the NAGS part numbers are entirely different and the NAGS interchange listings say that the Chevy W/S will only interchange with Ponticas of the same years.

For whatever it is worth the NAGS numbers for 55-56 Packard windshields are W 413 for the hardtop and sedans and W416 for the convertibles.

The numbers for 55-57 Chevrolet/Pontiac are W512 for the convertible and hardtop, and W513 for the sedans.

Prosource ~ Some 15-20 years ago when you were LoCan you used to purchase windshields from my stock for direct shipment to your customers. Though retired since 1990, I have been recommending you for years and did not realize ownership had changed. Do you still do the same type of business as you did as LoCan?

hvs

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

That idea came ME. BASED on a pattern i made from a packard windshield and layed upon a chevy windshield for comparison.

I am NO glass expert by a long shot. What is a NAGS number???? Is it a supplier/maunfacturer specific number????

[Guest]

PackardV8

Sorry about using trade jargon. NAGS - National Auto Glass Specifications. This is the bible of the auto glass replacement trade, or at least it was up until I retired. I have those specs back to 1930, although for flat glass you have to have the NAGS patterns for the numbers to be of any use. However, in curved parts, both laminated and tempered, numbers like W130[the W is for windshield] will get you a windshield. A B123[b for back] will be a backlite [that's a back glass to a non auto glass person].

Have I confused everyone sufficiently? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hvs

[WCraigH]

Can a NAGS number be converted to a dimensional specification? I tried to find same on-line with a few simple Google searches, but only found sites pointing me towards vendors.

I don't "need" these dimensions right now, but it would be interesting. If the NAGS xref is like the Hollander xref, their statement about X fitting Y is not always complete.

[Guest]

Basically a NAGS # will give you a block size and nothing more. Block size, another trade term indicating the size of the glass from which the pattern is cut, rounded up to the nearest even inch, such as 20x72 for the 55-56 Packard W/S. This is the distance around the bend, not from tip to tip of the opening.

Stop and think about a curved windshield. Not only does it have a curve that is not a true radius from side to side, but it has a curve from top to bottom, also probably not a true radius. Think of the literally dozens of measurements it would take to describe a single windshield, and then realize that there is no way they can be listed, nor could you possibly measure them on a windshield if you had them.

hvs

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

All i can say is that the pattern i made of the 56 Executive windshield would lay perfectly on a 56 Chevy 2 dr sedan. These were both cars with windshield installed. That does NOT mean they will I'change but it sure looks damn close enuf for me to pursue more deeply if i ever need a windshield OR get an opportunity to fit one one to a Packard. NOTE: that on visual inspection the Chevy's seem to tilt a little a little more forward at the top than the Packard. BUT, that only has to do with the styling difference. I mean, it would'nt matter if they mounteed it upside down as long as the opening/seal compatability is ok.

[ChicagoPack]

I've heard that Packard was most successful in creating a distortion free curved windshield in the fifties, is that true?

[Guest]

V8 ~ But does laying a paper pattern on a curved piece of glass indicate that the curve is the same in all places in both directions? I don't know? Use whatever works for you. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The only way to know for sure is to try to put one in.

hvs

[Guest]

Packard didn't make the windshields. They were most likely made by PPG or LOF. The more curve you put in a piece of glass the greater potential for distortion. Maybe Packard windshields had less curve than other windshields of the era or maybe they were more selective in what they accepted or used from the manufacturer.

Back in 1956 I went through 3 replacement windshields in my '56 Buick Super before getting one that didn't make my eyes cross when I looked out of the passenger side when driving. They were all either PPG or LOF and the insurance company did not argue too much when I demanded a less distorted windshield. In those days all windshields were not created equal even from the same manufacturer.

Flat, laminated Plate GLASS in the older car windshields had no distortion. When they started bending the glass in the late '40s and early '50 the distortion began. By the mid '50s GM had so much bend in the windshields that distortion was inevitible. By the '60s windshields had begun to flatten out again to a more modest bend.

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about windshields. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

hvs

[ChicagoPack]

Are you kidding? Fascinating material. Thanks

[Guest]

Thanks. I'm not a Packard owner, but I love the cars. I came on here because a friend who knew my background contacted me and suggested I join in the discussion. Hope it has been useful. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hvs

[ChicagoPack]

I just drove my 56 back from having the transmission rebuilt, and paid particular attention to the distortion. Almost none. It's amazing. Packard must have had strigent specs with the glass companies or as you say perhaps the curve isn't as extreme, tho it is close to ninety degrees.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Howard, this group is just interested in car info - they don't say anything about politics, religion or sexual preferences. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> We're all on a learning curve and glad you joined in. We all learned something. Even inebriated scotsmen are welcome. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger

[R W Burgess]

You've been found out, Howard. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Guest]

But guys, I'm not a Scot regardless of the name. My ancestors came here from Germany in 1865 right after the Civil War ended, and they anglicized the German name. I'm really a Kraut. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HV

[ProSource]

Howard:

Hi, yes it's been a long time..I do remember buying many of your glass parts. I think you spoke to Lois most of the time...she is my mother (the Lo in Lo-Can came from her, the Can is Candi, my sister. ) Since my father started in 1953 and I wasn't born til 62 my name didn't get included. We sold the business as mentioned in June 2002. You probably as well as others will see Speedy Glass, Novus Windshield Repair, especially out west. In Canada they are the largest retail/wholesalw under the name Speedy, Apple, Novus.. They operate 50+ wholesale outlets under Autostock Distribution. Things have changed a lot. I left last fall, Lois was retiring. I am basically doing the same thing, starting to buy out obsolete inventories, drop shipping, having glass remanufactured. I deal equally in a lot of foreign glass (Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, Porsche etc) as well as the American classics. I import from several countries (can't beat the Chinese prices these days!). We do have tempered glass that has little curvature made for door glasses , quarters, vents in the US quite reasonable..

Anyways, did you ever keep any of the old windows or where did they end up??Always interested in finding discontinued glass parts..how did you end up in Wyoming?I remeber you in Maryland...

My father passed away in 1996, only 66 years old. He knew as much as anyone out there about the glass business having grown up in that and the parts business from his father. I can remember being a little kid, my grandfather had a salvage yard, the glass shop was next door that my father owned..been doing this full time since 1985.

Anyone who needs glass, interested in parts interchangeability or anything related should feel free to contact me at richardt@prosourceglassintl.com

I am interested in remaking the carribean windshields if a few people wanted to step up.

In the last 4-5 years we have remade about a dozen different windshields and back windows for cars that you could not get glass for- we did 50+ windshields for the Amphicar Club, BMW Isetta 300 windshields, new tinted back windows for 68-72 Olds Cutlass 2Dr...etc

Drop me a line anytime.

Richard

[Guest]

Richard ~ Small world. I'll drop you a line in a few days and fill you in on the last 15 years. Thanks for asking. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I do know where all of my old stock went, and it may now be available as a lot. Details in the letter.

Howard