Flash running cool?

[Guest EDBS0]

Flash in a previous post you mentioned that after your 20 minute drive to work you were still cold in the car.

Today I fired up the Reatta with a clock with a second hand and this is what I found...

19F outside and car sat for 24 hours.

Interior temp set at 75F

Controls set on automatic (Now switched to heat)

After 2 minutes and 45 seconds temperature began to move from low to 102F

At time 3:15 120F blower started to blow.

4 minutes 140F

5 minutes 159F

6 Minutes 177F

hit high of 181 before thermostat opened and temperature dipped to 175 before climbing again. (I have a 180F thermostat)

If you are taking much longer than this you have a bad thermostat and/or leaking gasket.

[Guest imported_Flash]

Robert,

Thanks for the update. Since we spoke, (very nice gesture by the way), I have not yet replaced the thermostat. Ill over the past 4 days and just got back into the routine today. In driving in this morning, temp went to 140 maybe 142, but did have heat. Still believe the thermostat is operating erratically and will replace in the next few days.

Side note....this car never has been a fast warmer. It has always taken awhile to get heat, but the recent event of 127 degrees after 23 minutes driving seemed abnormal.

I'll post after the thermostat/gasket(s) change.

[Shelby]

Just to make sure what the real temp is, use one of those cool laser thermometer. Just point it at the thermostat housing.

$64 at NAPA way fun tool. Mine is a Raytek Mini Temp.

These are great toys /tools . It is amazing that the hood of you car get 175 deg. F in the summer sun.

[2seater]

You should fix the thermostat as soon as you can. If it is really running that cool, it will probably be hard on mileage, and that is really too cool to effectively evaporate moisture and other bad stuff from the oil. Mine seems to go into closed loop operation at 130 degrees but there are apparently others that want 140 degrees plus to do so. Just my .02.

[padgett]

Wold like to know what temps people are seeing the engine go closed loop at (easiest on 88-89). Have just been through the code and looks like is either 32C or 62C. Note: is a minimum of 100 seconds delay from cold start.

[Guest imported_Flash]

2seater...I was wondering what the consequences were of not changing it asap. Was getting heat, even at 142 degrees. Picked up the thermostat, 2 o-rings, and gasket sealant last night. Looked under the hood to see where I would be working and determined the tight quarters would be better done on the weekend.

This morning, the blower came on at 106, temp rose to 113 and stayed there a long time...several minutes....rose to 116, back to 113, rose to 118, back to 113, rose to 122, then back to 120. Was reading 120 when I turned her off.

There are 2 o-rings, 1 is smaller in diameter but a thicker "ring", and the other is bigger in diameter but a thinner "ring". It will probably be obvious upon dis-assembly which goes where. It seems that I remember reading where the o-rings can get pinched if care is not taken upon bolt tightening. Is it common to put the sealant on both o-rings and how "clean" do the surfaces need to be of the old material???

As always, thanks for the replys. Perhaps tonight I might tackle this.

[Guest wally888]

If this is 91, uses a different O ring.

I changed several in an 89 and (Possibly due to old age/memory) only remember using 1 "O" ring??

Job is easy but remove nearby elec connections, a small pipe/tube and be very careful not to hit TPS-little lever breaks easily.

Broke TPS on 1st. one I replaced!

[Guest EDBS0]

Flash, as an interim measure you could put cardboard in front of the rad to prevent the air from going through the rad. Could be more trouble than just doing the thermostat.

[Guest imported_Flash]

Wally, Robert....thanks for the advice. Snowing right now, looks like 8" are due, will try to tackle after the driveway work tonight.

[Roadster90]

Flash,,,

About a week back Gomer posted some thermostat questions. There was some confusion about gaskets, and there was mention of a TSB and the use of two gaskets to raise or lower the thermostat or something . I questioned the application of the 2 gaskets and asked how to obtain the TSB and got ignored . Maybe you can get some light shed on the situation .

Nic

[padgett]

Didn't ignore, just haven't been home for three weeks (really need a different job). Smaller diameter one should be thicker and goes on top of the thermostat. Other (real O-ring) goes in groove on outlet pipe.

I use never-seize (silver grease) on everything related to coolant that doesn't get teflon tape.

You can't get things too clean but pay particular attention to the outlet pipe where the O'ring goes and the surface in the manifold it slides into.

To install I just pull down with bolt while levering down on other side with a big screwdriver. If everything is clean, it will slide right in.

No need to play godzilla on the bolt, the O-ring is what seals, bolt just keeps in place. Snug like a spark plug is fine. Do not be concerned if there is a minor gap between the outlet and the manifold surface or if it is tilted a little (not much though), again, it is the O-ring that seals it.

If it binds a lot going in, something is wrong. Remove and clean some more. Gentle is the watchword.

[Guest imported_Flash]

Nic...I recall that post and I think that is where I got the idea that there was some "care" required with this install. Hope the New year is being good to you and that you are singing your heart out.

Padgett....advice is much appreciated. Haven't tackled the job yet as I really can't afford to be without transport until Saturday. I have an ability to make a 30 minute job take about 2 days. Usually due to some minor mishap that gets compounded. I think I've only changed 1 thermostat ever. It was on a '70 1/2 ton 307 V8. Access was real easy. As I look into the Reatta's ('88) engine bay, I notice that the thermostat housing is beneath some "lines" and on the right side of the engine. It appears as though the front bolt would have pretty easy access, but the back bolt looks more challenging. Also, initially, it looks like some dis-assembly is required to get to the thermostat housing.

Am I off track here?

[2seater]

You have more than one bolt in the housing? There should only be one, and it may be somewhat seized into the manifold so carefully work it back and forth until free. Anti-sieze is a definite good idea where steel and aluminum meet. Once the bolt is out, you may have to wiggle it back and forth to get it to come straight up, but it should come right out. The small steel line that is just above the housing is for the fuel pressure regulator and you can remove that to give more clearance. Just be careful removing the rubber elbow from the plastic vacuum block on top of the manifold, they get brittle with age and are fairly easy to break. The other two steel lines you are probably seeing are for the modulator on the transaxle and the other is for the charcoal cannister purge. Neither of them should be in the way to remove the housing. If you do decide to remove them, you will need to remove the rear mount for the upper "dogbone" that stabilizes the engine to the upper radiator header. The two steel lines are welded together and they have a ring shaped support that is sandwiched between the stabilizer bracket and the head. The steel line that connects to the vacuum block is for the modulator and it has a smaller end that is a restriction for the vacuum and is actually inserted into the block so if you do not pull straight out, the nipple will most likely break off the plastic block. The only other caution is the Throttle Position Sensor is fairly close to the t'stat housing and is just to the right when viewed from the front. This can be damaged by a slipped wrench or screwdriver. Just be careful, clean everything thouroughly,and it should all drop right together.

[Guest wally888]

91 has 2 bolts! Gasket w/ 2 holes, fits flat, no O ring on tube. Others only 1.

Padgett knows why?

91 uses one O ring but is knotched and fits on thermo rim, seals above and below.

[padgett]

Prolly because the one bolt thermostat housing was a better idea that just didn't work (or someone realied there was no way to get to another bolt at the back). O ring is something Ferd uses everywhere but GM didn't very often. It works very well if you are gentle and make certain all the surfaces are very clean.

Just wound up making a gasket (any one else know what the round part of a ball-peen hammer is for ?) for the '92 which is conventional.

[Guest imported_Flash]

2seater, Wally, Pagett (and Nic), thanks alot for the replys. Never thought that there would only be one bolt. When I looked at the job to assess it, I couldn't see the back bolt and automatically concluded that it was going to be a bugger to get to. But if its not there, then it certainly makes that concern null and void. In reviewing the FSM, I didn't pick up on the fact that "bolt" shown in fig 6 (sec 6B) meant that there was only one.

With all this additional info, I actually feel I can do this (without a total engine removal), and will update accordingly.

Thanks again. Advice is sincerly appreciated. And EDBSO, good catch on my "no heat" comment or I might still not have known that I had a thermostat problem. I'd have probably had it back into the dealer for a "heater" problem. With all the money you guys just saved me on diagnostics, I think I should buy the next round. Frankenmuth Drafts are on me.

[Guest imported_Flash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flash, as an interim measure you could put cardboard in front of the rad to prevent the air from going through the rad. Could be more trouble than just doing the thermostat. </div></div>

For those that may be interested....the thermostat was changed today. Took me about 2 and a half hours, including clean up time of sweeping the garage floor and putting my tools away. The '88 Reatta was at 192 degrees in the driveway at idle, after about 15 minutes running.

There are a couple of tidbits that I will share for those who are mechanically challenged, like myself.

1st. The grey plastic cover on top of the engine, comes off. It has 6 plastic molded "clips" on the underside, and once removed, greatly increases your view of the work area and access.

2. The small bolt directly above the work area, with black lines on both sides, takes a 10mm socket.

3. The bolt for the thermostat housing is a 7/16.

4. A socket extension longer that 3" is helpful. And one of those rotating socket knuckles (small) would be helpful as well.

5. An extendable magnet would also be nice for those who suffer from drop-it-itis.

6. Removal of the gas line is helpful. An openended wrench will work (size...I forgot). However when it slips, it will cause you to break the work light.

7. Work light and extra bulb.

8. A wooden dowel (6", 1/4" dia) or old spare toothbrush.

After removing lines and radiator hose from the thermostat housing, the housing can be gently nudged off the base. Upon removal of my thermostat, the one removed had only one O-ring, the one around the housing. Do not know the age of this thermostat, but it could be the original. There was nothing to clean, except the groove that the O-ring seats in. A cloth towel was all that was needed to remove the orange stain. Placed new O-ring on. Remove old thermostat (used needle nose pliers) and replaced. Prior to placement of new thermostat, put 2nd O-ring on top of thermostat. It seats against the inside of the thermostat housing, creating a good seal between the bottom flange ID of the thermostat housing and the O-ring. This secures the thermostat, down into the base. The O-ring that encircles the housing, then is tapped into position, using the wooden dowel or toothbrush handle. (Using a screwdriver will mar the soft housing material and could crack it, when tapped with a mallet). After seating the housing, then place the bolt into the hole and while tightening the bolt, use a leverage tool to attempt to keep the housing square.

After the bolt is secure, replace the removed lines, and start it up.

No gasket sealant was used, as there is no seal between the housing and the base. The housing is tipped (non-square), due to the 2nd gasket's pressence. This gasket changes the amount of space available inside the base for the primary O-ring/housing to seat. Thus the "cocked" condition after replacement of the thermostat.

Hope this helps someone.

I have heat.

And the next round is still on me.

[Guest EDBS0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> rotating socket knuckles (small) would be helpful as well. </div></div>

That would be a universal joint or doojackamapivi/thing

<span style="font-style: italic">It warms my heart to see such a favourable outcome.</span>

So it will be easy to swap it out for a 180 degree one? Not necessary but I likke to run slightly cooler.

[Guest imported_Flash]

Robert...

Not only is your heart warm....but my car's cockpit is on fire. I'm considering curtains for the windows so that I can change into cloathes after arriving at my destinations. Never, have I experienced so much heat. Heater temp set at 77 degrees and I was roasting. Only thoughts of cool "refreshment" kept me sane long enough to exit into the artic outside. A moment longer and I'd have succumed to heat exhaustion and would have required the ressucetation efforts of nothing short of the BUD girls. Fortunately, due to the recent installation of a "working" window switch, acquired from Mr. Finn, the window was slightly adjar, allowing just enough "nose hair" stimulation, for me to exit in tact.

Until we taste the fermented hops, and tip our glasses to the successes of our past, I bid adeiu.

[Guest DTerry]

Good to hear that I'm not the only one who regularly breaks work lights. I bought one of the super-duty, almost indestructible bulbs...promptly dropped it and broke it.

[padgett]

Now have a fluorescent bulb in my work light in the front garage because was the only one on hand when the last incadecent broke. Seems to be working well other than needs a little help in retracting since a tad more weight. Not as burney either.

Actually what I spend the most time cleaning is the inside surface of the manifold where the O-ring slides and the water neck itself. For a buck, I have several stapled to the drywall & always replace them whenever a neck is pulled. Never needed a tool to put the O-ring into the groove, just use my fingers. Of course I coat it with Never-Seize first - if didn't have the NS would use vasoline or wheel bearing grease instead (have always moistened gaskets before installation. Good friend who is a pro doesn't bother but makes me feel more confortable).