New Style Seat/Lap Belts on Older Cars

[BuickNut]

Just wanted to get some input/experiences on what it does to the value of the car, and ease of installation, of putting combination lap/shoulder belts into older cars - whether it be back to the 40's or in the 60's....any comments or experiences ? I do more than just the weekend cruising with my cars (though not everyday anymore...) and want to tote the family along, and have a son still in a booster seat requiring the combo lap/shoulder belts....and don't want to put them in harms way (though the NEWER cars do make for very nice crush zones for the older cars with STEEL still in them )<P>Thanks a lot.

[Guest]

About those “Crush zones”! My new bride came equipped with a 71 Buick Skylark that ran great (still cant figure the 2nd gear scratch with only a 2 barrel carb) but was not worth restoring. Alas, she gave it a UN-proper burial by doing a left turn into an oncoming 1990 cougar. The cougar was going 60-65 mph, the Buick hit it with its right front corner, dead center into the grille of the Cougar. ("She never saw it"). Impact spun the Buick around 360 and up onto a bank, the cougar “crush zone” was engine pushed up into the passenger compartment big time! (Floor boards spread for v8 cyl heads to come in.) It was a miracle both parties walked away with just minor injuries! I had the Buick towed to the house for parts. It WAS repairable! The fender, radiator, right tire & suspension were gone. Only “crushed” into the battery. Even with a crushed battery, it started right up! The radiator was gone so I didn’t run it long. I Still have the engine and transmission. (Anybody want it?) The rest went to the big Buick resting-place. They don’t crush much on impact! But my bride looked like she had played football with the pro’s and lost! She only had her lap belt on, (had the bruises to prove it!) It had a shoulder belt in a clip on the headliner, but we never used them. So, Yes they hold up very well in a wreck. I don’t know about shoulder belts though.

[YellowLark]

One of your challenges is where to bolt the shoulder straps. If the roof (or rear wheel well for convertibles) wasn't reinforced for shoulder belts, you have a problem.<P>What year and model Buick is it?

[Centurion]

I have faced this same issue with my older Buicks. My six-year old twin daughters love to ride in the old Buicks, and safety is a high priority for us.<P>My '71 Centurion is factory-equipped with seat belts and front shoulder harnesses. When we acquired our original '59 Electra a couple of years ago, however, there were no seat belts of any kind. Although shoulder harnesses would have been ideal from a safety standpoint, there is no satisfactory way to do this with the '59. The car is a 4-door hardtop, and part of its styling appeal is the clean, pillarless look. A modern shoulder belt system would detract from the appearance of the car, and I also knew that the roof lacked the reinforcement to adequately anchor the shoulder harnesses. Frankly, I was also reluctant to cut into the beautiful original headliner.<P>We ordered seatbelts in a color that looks great with the car's interior from Classic Buicks in Chino, California. The belts have nice chrome buckles and hardware, and look similar to the type that might have been added to the car when it was nearly new. The belts are anchored through the floor of the car. While the lap belts do not provide the safety that combined lap and shoulder belts do, they provide some added safety and sense of security.<P>My twins are still small enough that they use car seats with a built-in double harness, and the seats themselves are anchored by the lap belt in both the Centurion and the '59 Electra. The time is rapidly approaching, however, when the built-in harnesses will be discarded because of the girls' size, then the seats will be used as a booster seat. Research indicates that children are safer in booster seats until age 8 or so. Since the booster seat requires both a lap belt and shoulder belt to provide adequate safety, I have come to this conclusion: As long as the girls are using the booster seat, we cannot allow them to ride in the older Buicks. At this point, if my wife and kids want to join me for tours or shows, they'll be following in one of our newer cars equipped with rear seat belts and shoulder belts. When they have outgrown the boosters, I will probably feel comfortable allowing them to ride in the rear seat of the old Buicks wearing only the lap belt.<P>Hope my comments help, and I will be very interested to learn solutions that others have come up with.<P>Brian Laurance, BCA #5168<BR>1959 Electra 4-door hardtop<BR>1971 Centurion Formal Coupe<BR>1989 LeSabre Limited Coupe

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

I too have had the same question with my old cars. I bought the lap belts for Classic Buicks as well.<P>I installed them on my '53 and '55 Buick, 3 in the front, 3 in the rear. Make sure you use the proper bolts, and drill thru a part of the floor, that will hold the belts in in the event of a crash. Make sure the floor is not rusted, and don't be shy on using oversize flat washers, or even reienforced steel plates to achieve this.<P>Yes the lap belts are not as efficient as the combo lap/shoulder ones, but they are better than none.<P>I was involved in a roll over crash and if I had not been wearing my seatbelts, I probably would not be here to tell you this story.<P>Scott Mich<BR>Assistant Director<BR>Chicagoland Chapter<BR>1955-76C<BR>1959-Olds SS-88

[YellowLark]

BuickNut,<P>I just found out earlier this year that all GM cars built from February 1966 forward have the mounting anchors and bolt holes for shoulder belts. Accordingly, I was able to buy and install year-correct shoulder belts in my 1966 Buick.<P>So, depending on when your Buick was built, you might already have a bolt-in capacity for shoulder belts.

[Guest Shaffer]

If it is a 4-door hardtop car, the only thing you can do is install the anchor points to the roof. This is the way the late 60s up hardtop cars was, as well as the sedans. My 72 Electra has lap and shoulder belts, although the belts are seperate. The shoulder belt fastens to the lap belt and they are buckled into the buckle. I have ALWAYS wore my safety belt in all of my cars, but I do sometimes only wear the lap belt, as it can be awkard fastening the shoulder belts. Also, on the January 1972 - newer Electras, the seat belt light and buzzer operates if the belts is not fastened and it it detects someone in the passenger deat not buckled in, it also alarms. I cheat it though, as I fastened the pass side belt, because when my grandfather rides in my car, he canlt fasten it, therefore sounding the buzzer, so I just fastened it, so it assumes the pass is fastened. Installing rear belts should be easy. The main question was asked before: What year/make car is it? Good luck. <P>Tony<BR>---------------------<BR>72 Buick Electra 225 Custom 4-door hardtop sedan (for sale - maybe sold)<BR>89 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon<BR>91 Honda Accord LX 4-door sedan (maybe next car)

[Bill Stoneberg]

One other way that I have used for many years is to use the 4 or 5 point saftey harnesses they sell for racing.<BR>Before you all laugh and claim it is overkill ask how much you are worth.<BR>They mount only to the floor so they are able to be used in convertibles or pillarless cars, they come over both shoulders so they keep you away from the metal dash and spearlike steering column, they have clips to remove them from the car to show and the hold up well. <BR>I have personally tested them in numerous crashes in my little H production Bugeyed Sprite. The bug eye is no bigger then a MG Midget and has been run into by Corvettes and run into a wall by a Jaguar. I was sore but not hurt. <BR>I have them in my 47 Buick and will put them in my 50 Buick wen finished. I have not tested them yet in these cars and have no plans to. But if I ever have an accident, I feel confident that me and my wife wont face dance into the dash.

[BuickNut]

Would still like to hear more info...but the cars I have are as follows: '49 Buick Super 4 dr sedan; '73 Buick Century GS Stage 1 ; '52 Buick Super 4 dr sedan ; (wince...) '67 Ford (ouch !) Galaxy Station Wagon (4 dr); '70 Caddy DeVille Convertible.<P>Thanks for the replies so far..but again would like to hear more ....as you guys have very much eluded to - its an important subject

[BuickNut]

Bill, with that 4-5 point harness...can you also put it in the rear somehow ? What is the approx cost of these, and would a typical place to get them be maybe Summit ?<P>Thanks.

[Guest]

I use the 5 point Simpson harness in my 69 GTO convert and my 67 Sklyark Convert. I use the 3 " lap belts and the 2 " Y shoulder harness. The lap belts bolt up to the stock lap belt holes and I mount the shoulder and crotch belts to the floor using reinforcment plates. Since my rides are not show cars, safety is my top priority. I think this is the only way to go in an older rag top. Hardtops may have other options.

[Bill Stoneberg]

I dont see why you couldn't mount them in the rear.<BR>I dont know about Summit, I get mine at a local race shop.<BR>They are about $ 350 apiece and have a lifetime (of car, not me) warrenty.<BR>Make sure that the mounting point is well reinforced. You ant put too much metal there.<BR>Bill

[Guest]

Mike 67 Ragtop Didn't your car come equipped with stock shoulder belts? How were they mounted? <P>I knew a couple guys in High school that had convertables. They had taken their cars to shops and had a retractable belt installed in the rear door panel. They had to reach WAY over their shoulder to grap the belt, but I guess it worked OK. I didn't pay much attention to how it all worked, but I guess they hooked this shoulder belt into the lap belt. <P>If you are going to drill holes in the floor I would use those big plates to attach the bolts like GM used. I would have them professionally welded. I don't think just a bolt with a big washer is good enough.<P>Finally, if you don't mind modernizing the car you could get some of those seats with the shoulder belt in the seat. They use them on Chrysler Sebring Convertables and some full size trucks. I bet they would cost about a thousand bucks, but it would be the easiest to live with once they are installed. You could even have them reupholstered to look original. It would be a lot of work to install them but it would be the best.<P>Tomsriv<BR>71 Riv (Glad I got shoulder belts)

[YellowLark]

In the '67 A-body convertibles, the shoulder belt attaching point is a threaded hole in the convertible arm support brace that is welded to the wheel housing. The belt comes through the upholstered panel that surrounds the top arms.<P>I did some shoulder belt research earlier this year, and came across the body diagrams for these belts.