Advice for what to look for when buying a 442

[theconvertibleguy]

Hello all

 

So I'm looking at what on the outside is a decent looking '69 442 convertible, and as someone that isn't a big Olds guy (I'm more familiar with Ford's, Pontiac, Dodge), I'm wondering if anyone could provide some advice on what to look out for, what are red flags, just anything that would be useful as from my research, these models are both popular, and easily fakeable.

[rocketraider]

The VIN plate on the dash MUST read 34467. If it doesn't, car isn't a 442 unless someone made a really good fake. You might find a different number on its underhood data plate; that discrepancy is well known and documented on 68-69 cars.

 

Look on the engine between intake manifold and water pump. A correct 1969 400ci engine will have a "G" cast into that area. To verify if car has the original engine, there's a machined pad at left front of the block, just beneath the cylinder head. 68-later Olds V8 engines have a VIN derivative stamped into the pad. If it matches the dash VIN, original engine. Joe Padavano has a good picture of this. Car should have "C" casting cylinder heads. If you find "D" castings on a numbers matching block you possibly have a W30.

 

442 will have boxed rear axle lower control arms and rear sway bar. These were optional on other Cutlass series.

 

Depending on the assembly plant the underhood data plate can tell you a lot. However if the car was built in the Fremont CA assembly plant the data plate has a lot of arcane numerical codes that are tied to the car's build sheet and job order. The other plants are easy to decode.

 

Others will be able to add more.

[theconvertibleguy]

So the VIN is 344679M*****, which from the sources I've found online, confirms it's a 442 (34467, built in Lansing). And I believe that G you mentioned was there (not a mechanical guy, but there was a set of numbers that were pretty obvious on the gold block.). Not sure how you can tell C or D castings unless you open the engine up?

 

So here's what the data plate looked like. It's.....confusing to say the least, at least to me. If I'm reading it right, it's not a 442, and it's supposed to be silver instead of the blue paint that it was?

 

 

[joe_padavano]

11 hours ago, theconvertibleguy said:

So the VIN is 344679M*****, which from the sources I've found online, confirms it's a 442 (34467, built in Lansing). And I believe that G you mentioned was there (not a mechanical guy, but there was a set of numbers that were pretty obvious on the gold block.). Not sure how you can tell C or D castings unless you open the engine up?

 

So here's what the data plate looked like. It's.....confusing to say the least, at least to me. If I'm reading it right, it's not a 442, and it's supposed to be silver instead of the blue paint that it was?

 

 

It is well documented in factory literature that the 1968 and 69 442s came with Cutlass S cowl tags. Don't sweat this. And this isn't the only instance where the cowl tag doesn't match the VIN.

[joe_padavano]

Unfortunately, by 1969 there was precious little data on the cowl tag. This one decodes as follows:

 

 

 

ST 69 = 1969 model year

33667 = Oldsmobile (3) Cutlass S (36) convertible (67) As noted previously, 1968 and 69 442s came with Cutlass S cowl tags

LAN = Lansing assembly plant

170474 BDY = Fisher Body sequence number

TR 930 = Black bucket seat interior

69 B PNT = Platinum (69) lower body color with Black (B) convertible top

10E = built fifth week (E) of October (10) 1968

 

Also, here is one of the places where Olds notes that the 442s got Cutlass cowl tags. This is from the Jan 1972 edition of the factory parts book. This page covers the 1968 cars, but 69 is the same.

 

 

[theconvertibleguy]

Very nice. WIll have to bookmark this as I know I'll forget this down the road.

Only weird thing is that it says the lower body colour is platinum, but it's dark blue. Had a look everywhere to see if there was any repainting, but no dice. Did Olds of that era come in two tone at all?

 

Here's a picture for reference. Threw one in of the engine block for fun, although I'm almost certain it's not anything special (no W's here I dont' think )

 

 

Edited April 27 by theconvertibleguy (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

OK, I may have misread your cowl tag. There's spooge on the first character of the paint code. What I thought was "69" may be a "59" if you scrape that blob off. 59 would be Trophy Blue, which is a dark blue.

[joe_padavano]

A few things of note in the underhood shot. That looks like a big block Olds, but the paint sure looks like small block gold. The original 400 would have been bronze from the factory. This may be a color reproduction issue (digital cameras and monitors aren't 100% accurate) or it could have been repainted. There are a number of other indications that the car has been worked on in the past (not surprising since it's 55 years old). The master cylinder should be bare cast iron, not black. I can't tell from the photo if this is an original M/C or a replacement. The item on the driver side inner fender is an aftermarket windshield washer pump. The alternator has been replaced. Sadly the correct open-face 1969 alternators will run about $1000 in restored condition. The red heater hoses are not uncommon but are generic parts store replacements. Not sure what took that chunk out of the washer tank. The firewall has been sprayed gloss black, possibly when the engine was out. It's too dark to tell what's going on with the horn relay, also on the driver side fender. None of these are big deals, just observations.

[theconvertibleguy]

The firewall has been sprayed gloss black, possibly when the engine was out

 

So I know that the transmission had been slightly modified, if I remember right they had added a shift kit to allow for a longer first gear s it didn't shift to second so fast? Probably explains why the engine might have been out. Definitely a good reason to confirm the VIn on the block though (probably have the shop overlooking it this week do so)

[theconvertibleguy]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:26 PM, joe_padavano said:

A few things of note in the underhood shot. That looks like a big block Olds, but the paint sure looks like small block gold. The original 400 would have been bronze from the factory. This may be a color reproduction issue (digital cameras and monitors aren't 100% accurate) or it could have been repainted. ... The firewall has been sprayed gloss black, possibly when the engine was out.

So thought I'd update this. Found out the reason why the colours were off and the firewall was repainted was a symptom of a bigger issue. Found that the frame was rotten, possible the  floors and some parts of the paint as well when we got it on the hoist at a friends garage. Turned out it had had some work done by a friend of there's twenty years ago, and it was a bit liberal at cutting corners. Told it'd be another 30k at least to repair everything so....that's that. If it's too good to be true, it probably is

[joe_padavano]

Sadly, frame rot is all too common in the boxed convertible frames, particularly in the area where the frame kicks out behind the front wheels.