philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) As as go throughout the car I keep finding some interesting things... While trying to remove a homemade radiator, I found that I had to remove the water pump and thermostat housing to pull the radiator... Now to my surprise, there wasn't a lot of crud, but enough silicone to form a golf ball.... In any case, the block and the water pump plate have a small orifice for the water to circulate (aside from the main opening) It is my understanding however that the F36 had a solid plate behind the water pump.... In fact, the Hollander manual specifies that a 1937 water pump can be used, but you have to weld the hole in the plate and use a 1937 fan also... So, why do I have this opening on the plate? I am referring to the opening right below the inlet hose, below the mounting bolt... Could this be what the Hollander book talks about? The other small opening (near the center) seems to correspond to an opening in the block, so I imagine it is OK... My water pump has a W3524 casting #, which may be original ? since it still has two oil cups for lubrication... The second part of this puzzle is in the third photo... There is a metal piece right inside the block where the water would go through.... Any idea of the reason why anyone would do that? I have not remove that yet, but I would think it would interfere with the flow of water... Very interesting stuff I say! Edited April 7, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, philipj said: The second part of this puzzle is in the third photo... There is a metal piece right inside the block where the water would go through.... Any idea of the reason why anyone would do that? I have not remove that yet, but I would think it would interfere with the flow of water... Very interesting stuff I say! Read my Pontiac cooling system thread and all will become clear. The parts do not interchange, but the design is nearly identical. This isn't just Oldsmobile and Pontiac. It also applies to Chrysler products, junior Packards, Grahams, and probably a bunch of others. 20 minutes ago, philipj said: So, why do I have this opening on the plate? My water pump has a W3524 casting #, which may be original ? since it still has two oil cups for lubrication... No picture showing that? I can't even tell from those pics what kind of bushings or bearings it has or whether it has a packing nut. From your description I'm guessing it has a packing nut and is probably original. 23 minutes ago, philipj said: In any case, the block and the water pump plate have a small orifice for the water to circulate (aside from the main opening) It is my understanding however that the F36 had a solid plate behind the water pump.... In fact, the Hollander manual specifies that a 1937 water pump can be used, but you have to solder the hole in the plate and use a 1937 fan also... The hole is the bypass that allows the thermostat enough flow to function without trying to boil the back of the engine first. There have been detailed threads in the Buick section about how this works, but I don't know how to find my way back there offhand. Buicks had a spring loaded valve that the factory advocated replacing with a hole later on. Being overhead valve, the Buick stuff looks very different but functions the same. I have seen a reference to soldering up a hole on an Oldsmobile water pump somewhere too. My best guess is that the hole on a 37 pump does not land in the right place on the earlier engine and would just squirt water. A bypass of some kind is almost necessary, and considering you have a hole in your block that lines up with the plate, I am guessing that is all correct. The fan thing may be a red herring. Around 1937-38, Chevrolet had some water pump changes that required updating the fan due to flange height issues. I've seen clues that something similar happened at Pontiac in 1937 or 1938, but no proof so far. In any event, the most likely reason to change a fan was it did not fit anymore after a water pump update. The internal construction of many automakers water pumps changed from bushings and packing to cartridge ball bearings and carbon seals in the 1936-38 period. That can have a large impact on the length of the nose of the pump, and perhaps more importantly, shaft diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 Here is my initial response.... Oh shit! I have much ground to cover. Now the grill must come out to remove that water tube... My book goes only down to 1937 for this part in Gr. Nr- 1.135) Oh shit again... Things just got a little complicated...:( 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) If you were able to take the radiator out, you are already way ahead of where I was on the Pontiac. Good luck with it. 👍 Edited April 7, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 Before I push the panic button, here is the thing.... Surely the tube in there is not original, and it may be homemade, who knows, looks like galvanized metal.... I would attempt to pull out either with a slide hammer or special tool that needs fabricating, BUT first I have to find a replacement, and then I will have to remove the grill or nose of the car to do this properly without breaking something... Or I can roll the dice and not touch it, since the car was "restored" 25 years ago with only 300 or so miles since the work (which I think was mostly cosmetic) was done, yet if it weren't for an additional cooling fan installed in the car I would almost say take a chance... So maybe, I am on the fence... BUT again..;( being that I hate to revisit things, specially something as complicated as this I may just have to find a replacement for peace of mind... On the other hand, it is my assessment that the car sat all these years without running properly because someone decided to cut the original armored cable from the ignition switch, which little by little was shorting out the connection to the coil.... The distributor also had the wrong points, bare wires and broken insulators, still they changed coils, caps, condensers, regulators and surely could not get the car to run right so it sat.... It sat on someone's garage for 25 years! Back to the distribution tube, for example, the trick would be to find out if a MOPAR tube (the only thing that comes up online) could be modified to fit a 36 Block, but the best thing would be to find an original or period aftermarket... Would you now the part number for this tube by chance? Without replacement parts, I do not want to take this apart any further other than keep reading about the other posts you mention and keep digging that rabbit hole even deeper!...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) Continuing with the cooling related items and back to the water pump, here is another view of the pump out of my car, which you were asking about....Everything looks good and tight, except for the slight corrosion to the back of the plate... Now going to alternative replacements it seems that GM 416429 (39-48) water pump can be used for this can in conjunction with a 1937 fan blade GM 408062... Yet, before I go looking for this stuff, i would like to know what I have, which it is still a mystery. The center hole in this pump is 7/8" and the adjacent distance between holes or bolt circle 1-1/4"... Looking at a possible original GM 404901, they look identical.... Note the cleaned version with the one hole next to the inlet hose without a corresponding opening in the block... Unwelded. Is that what the Hollander refers to for the 37-48 pumps? Edited April 7, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, philipj said: Before I push the panic button, here is the thing.... Surely the tube in there is not original, and it may be homemade, who knows, looks like galvanized metal.... I would attempt to pull out either with a slide hammer or special tool that needs fabricating, BUT first I have to find a replacement, and then I will have to remove the grill or nose of the car to do this properly without breaking something... In my opinion, the odds are against it being OK. If I was in as far as you are, there is no way I would put it back together without knowing. 6 hours ago, philipj said: Looking at a possible original GM 404901, they look identical.... Note the cleaned version with the one hole next to the inlet hose without a corresponding opening in the block... Unwelded. Is that what the Hollander refers to for the 37-48 pumps? It looks like my guess about the hole was right. I see two clean pumps after yours. The middle one has a hole up high for bypass, and assuming it would even bolt to the block, the hole would be up high and just squirt water on the ground. As I recall, that hole connects to a hole in the head of the later Olds engine and a special grommet seals it all up. A year or two ago someone in the forum was looking for that grommet. I don't know if he was ever able to source any. I think I see a drain hole on this pump implying a modern style bearing and seal (as several makes would have used from 1938 forward, I am unsure exactly when Oldsmobile made the switch). The fan hub and shaft still look like something from a packing pump, but that might be an illusion. It's a shame they didn't show it from the top. The last clean pump looks like another pump for an earlier engine, maybe like yours. The hole is down low, and I think I see the "bowl" structure in the nose that would imply a pump with oil cups. It's kind of hard to tell. I think the pump you already have is the one you need. If there's nothing wrong, I would fill the oil cups up with turbine oil (zoom spout) or 10w motor oil and let it soak some up. I might take the back plate off, make it a new gasket, and see how close the impeller clearance at the front of the blades is. I've not seen a spec, for 1936 Olds, and I doubt it is super critical, but I don't think I would want .080 or .100 for instance, that would probably be too much. Discount endplay if you check this, as the impeller should pull all the way forward against the thrust surface in use. As for the endplay itself, there's probably a spec in the shop manual. I have looked at a lot of Oldsmobile rebuild kits since some of the parts look suspiciously like Pontiac, and one thing I have noticed is Oldsmobile (and LaSalle) had a stepped shaft on some models, maybe all(?) in 1936, but not 1935. Pontiac went to a needle bearing in front halfway through 1936 to increase durability. I believe 1936 Oldsmobile went to a stepped shaft and a larger front bushing for the same reason. If this is correct, you may find a larger bore for the bushing in the front of a 1936 pump compared to 1935. 7 hours ago, philipj said: Back to the distribution tube, for example, the trick would be to find out if a MOPAR tube (the only thing that comes up online) could be modified to fit a 36 Block, but the best thing would be to find an original or period aftermarket... It is probably unique to that 1936 and earlier engine. I have seen the crescent shaped ones on ebay that were for Oldsmobiles newer than yours. The shape of the outlet hole in the back of your pump is not crescent shaped like that. It's closer to Pontiac's weird trapezoid, but not really the same as Pontiac either. I must admit not looking that close at Olds water tubes I saw in the past. Pontiacs, which I would be looking for a substitute for, are a 10 port block. Is yours? I thought not, but reviewing the pictures of the parts ramair had for sale until recently I am not so sure. If it's a 10 port block, with 4 legs on the intake manifold, the valve order is wrong compared to Mopar. Since the tube is supposed to squirt on exhaust valve seats, there was no way one of those Mopar tubes was going to line up on a Pontiac. I doubt Mopar would just fit Olds but you never know. A direct comparison would be needed. You should know the Mopar sixes come in two lengths, with heads either 23" or 25" long. I can't help but wonder if the 37 Olds tube could be close enough to modify. There's some of those on Ebay. 7 hours ago, philipj said: Would you now the part number for this tube by chance? I have no way to look that up. You are for sure going to need a parts book. I imagine they are hens teeth for Oldsmobile, so good luck..... Edited April 7, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) Very well then, I have to pull out the lights and grill to remove the tube… As for the pumps, the one in the middle with casting # 3024 is supposed to be GM 416429 (39-48) models and be able to be retrofitted to a 36… I think that the hole you are referring to is the one that needs to be welded shut according to the Hollander book… Something else, I just discovered after cleaning my plate and looking at the holes again, I found out that the two small holes are correct (in the pump) except that if you look again at the photo of the block I posted before, you will see that one of the openings in the passenger’s side was completely plugged with silicone. I hated that stuff in the 80’s and still hate it today! Grrr…. Luckily, I was able to take that gob out with a small pick… So, mystery solved, it is the right pump, which was stuffed in there with 2lbs of silicone and probably causing the car to run warm, so they decided to install an auxiliary fan instead of revisiting their fine job! I think that you’re correct, the 33024 or Airtex AW27 is a more modern style pump… I might be able to find more photos online… Correct again, the pump I have seems appropriate for the car and it turns nicely, as for the lubrication, I thought that the oil needed was 30W. The rear cup holds oil a little better that the front, but the front one does not hold oil, though I see nothing leaking out as I added about 10 drops… There is no play at all in the shaft at all, so I may just be in luck and be able to use it… The water tube is another matter though... I am reluctant to pull it without a replacement, but it has to come out anyway. Lastly, Is there any reason why I could not use the 37-48 gasket sets available with this pump? Edited April 7, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 I measured my head gasket @ 26-7/8" Should the tube be around 26-1/2? Guessing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) I would be kind of surprised if the gasket kit fits. Maybe? That is another parts book question. I guess if the pump will bolt on it is possible. In fact, the rust pattern on the front of your block looks like it might have been using that same gasket on the block side on your car. I can't imagine using some pump that won't quite fit, especially when you have one that does. If it is the modern bearing you want, I would keep looking. Pontiac made backdated water pumps for their earlier engine with modern guts. I am using one right now (but I am changing back when I get the authentic one assembled). Buick did too. I believe the aftermarket made backdated pumps for Pontiacs and Buicks too. I would be extremely surprised if backdated pumps do not exist for Oldsmobile. If a modern bearing pump is what you are wanting, keep watching ebay. If I were you, I would use that pump you have, or the one in the third set of pictures. If I were guessing whether the later water tube might work, well... you are on the right track. If the headgasket is the same as 37-up, the chances are good. The other thing to look at is the number of intake ports/runners on the intake manifold. If the head gasket and the manifold branching is the same, it's almost a slam dunk that the later tube could be modified to work. If the headgasket is not the same, but the head length is the same and the manifold branching is the same. that is still promising. If the chances look good I would just buy a later one and compare. In fact, that is what I did with the Pontiac. To be completely clear, what would make the chances really good is if the valve locations in your block are the same as the redesigned 1937 engine, because the water tube probably squirts under the exhaust valve seats. Example, a Mopar six has 3 branches on the intake manifold, and the exhaust manifold goes to the far ends of the engine. The valve order has to be E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E. A Pontiac six on the other hand has four intake branches, and the exhaust manifold also goes to the far ends. It has to be E-I-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-I-E or E-I-I-E-I-E-E-I-E-I-I-E. I'm pretty sure Pontiac is the former, but it has to be one of those. It can't be like the Mopar because there is an intake manifold branch in the center of the block on the Mopar, and an exhaust branch in the center of the block on the Pontiac. A comparison like the one above on 36 Olds vs 37 Olds combined with head or head gasket spacing would tell you if the exhaust valves were in the same spot in the later engine. That might already be the later tube in your car. It doesn't appear to fit well, though that doesn't prove anything. I couldn't find a picture of a 36 Olds tube anywhere. It would sure be useful to see one. Edited April 7, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) The head gasket 405619 fits a 35,36, however the heads 407011 also include the 1934 model… So, it is possible that a 1934-35 water distribution tube may be the same… Everything 37-48 is completely different… A good thing would be to find a DORMAN or other aftermarket part number for this tube. I also would think that 34 through 36 GMC trucks would share the same tube… The valve arrangement of the F36 is E-I I-E E-I I-E E-I I-E so it seems that it would match the MOPAR arrangement… Now the question would be the length of the tube… I believe that their longest tube is 25” long… I just can’t believe that NO ONE has a photo of this tube or a spare for that matter… Same issue with water pump gaskets, non-existent! The next thing for me to do is to tear the nose off the car to remove the old tube and see what I really have… Below you can see the tubes from Dorman for 37-50 Pontiac and 41-50 Ford... Edited April 8, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Pontiac and Ford have the wrong valve order. Both have a 4 branch intake manifold. The wildly underrated Ford has a separate port for every intake valve. The Pontiac has the two inner branches of the intake manifold feeding siamese ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Olsen's for gaskets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 Gosh Gary, if Olson's has the right tube I would be very happy indeed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) Here is what appears to be the correct tube on a beautiful GMC truck... Even though the block is not notched for the tabs, would they represent a problem in terms of sealing the pump against the block? Edited April 9, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 The back plate is notched. See your earlier picture. If the gasket is like the one you posted earlier, the hole is rather large and out of the way. I believe you are on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 Excellent attention to detail, I missed that! It also confirms that the tube in that GMC is correct... As for the gaskets, they are the ones listed for a 37-48 pumps... If the newer pumps can be used, why not the gaskets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 On a closer look you might have to make gaskets. It looks like the bypass hole is not there, but it also looks like there's another port below the mounting bolt by the hose. I don't know what that one is for. I don't think the gasket in the pics will seal it. I made gasket patterns for the Pontiac and then cut my own from the patterns. It's all in the thread. I don't know if I could have bought them, maybe, but Best Gasket's 37-up Pontiac gaskets are all over Ebay, and not a sign of any 33-36. Like Olds, 37 was a change. As previously mentioned, if anyone has them Olson's would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 This back plate looks really nice. It might be worth having, as long as it's not full of Bondo or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) This pump was nearly perfect, and sadly is sold, even for that much.... Interestingly though, I have shared some of these details with a 35 Olds owner from Australia and he mentions that his 39 parts book has the 34-36 pumps as interchangeable.... Of interests also is the fact that the backplate is completely flat... I thought that dimple (circle) was absolutely necessary.... I will check with Olson's about the gaskets.... If anything, the other gaskets would help to trace the outside shape and then I can modify the rest... I could also go against the block, but since I do not have the nose or grill out it would be a major pita!... Back to the tube, considering getting a scope for my phone to inspect the entire tube... You can see that I am trying to avoid tearing the whole thing apart if I don't have to, despite the small damage to the front of the tube... BUT more on that, if I have to, I may have found the right one online... I believe is a DORMAN WT5 (By the way I wrote to the company for info) and it is 26-3/4" long. I think it is the correct length, yet the one thing to do is to study the hole pattern to see if it matches the 213 valve configuration... To start with and for comparison, my head gasket is 26-7/8" long... Could we be on the right track? Edited April 9, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) Well here is a water tube surprise! After purchasing an endoscope camera and seeing what I had, I decided to be gung-ho and pull the tube despite all my fears of a disaster and coming in pieces and taking days.... I must say that it is not a job for the timid and it took me all day to do it plus washing the cavity, vacuuming, using a magnet, etc... I am still not done cleaning, but I say I am at 75%.... The surprise is the following thing, it is a brass tube 24-1/2" inches long with only two 9/16" holes.... I was surprised, I thought it would have more holes like a WT5 Dorman tube, yet I do not know, nor do I think it is the right or the original tube... Here is why, IT WAS INSTALLED BACKWARDS!! @%$# In other words the cooling holes where not facing the intake and exhaust manifolds!!! Who on earth would do a thing like that? The little tabs that rest on the front of the block are still present... I supposed that the only good thing is that the rear was open, but I am still scratching my head! If installed correctly and the back was closed as it is supposed to be the one concern with this tube is that the last cylinder would have gotten no extra water at all... Very interesting! Edited April 14, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) Oh wow. That is a lot less holes than I would have expected. I also wonder if it is homemade, or if they actually made it that way? I see the two locking tabs on front like the one on the picture of the GMC. It sure looks like that back hole dumps between two exhaust valves, which would make sense. The front hole too, I guess. The tube ends right about where a hole should be. Wrong way huh? Weird. I also wonder if that second port on your water pump (not the bypass) might be shooting water under pressure at the first exhaust valve? Interesting. Maybe it's upside down. It looks from your pics like it would be shooting at the valves if the holes were up. Edited April 15, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 15, 2023 Author Share Posted April 15, 2023 (edited) I do not think is homemade, but I think it may be the wrong application... The head gasket for this motor is 26-7/8". I do not know what the rule of thumb is regarding these things, but it would make sense for them to be slightly shorter and with a bunch of holes... I placed the tube on the head to show the approximate location of the only two hoes spraying a great amount of extra water to the middle of the engine only.... I am not sure if the tube is original, and I also wonder why they would install it backwards with the only two holes away from the manifold... The only benefit to this is the fact that they opened the back of the tube, so there was some water circulating towards the back and hopefully in both directions. I ordered the tube below @ 26-3/4" long.... I am not even sure that this is right, but 408108 (37-50) is the only part number that appears for reference anywhere. Nothing, nothing at all about another number for a 36 F-36 in any book! Strange... Edited April 15, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 As you may have seen in the Pontiac thread, the (Pontiac) original was not as long as the engine in 1935-36, or 1939 for that matter. It was long enough to reach to the last hole they wanted to squirt water from and that was all. The 1937-54 Dorman replacement I modified had extra length, and reached to or almost to the back of the engine. Probably so did the later genuine Pontiac tubes, but I have not had one in my hand for comparison. It made absolutely no difference in the flow, so when I modified the Dorman tube I kept the extra length. As for the number of holes, what Pontiac did was squirt on exhaust seats more or less. Making sense of the pattern is tougher (and it is different from Olds because of the valve order). In 1936 they added some tiny holes on the other side to squirt between the cylinders. That pattern isn't symmetrical so even tougher yet to figure what they were thinking. If I had to reverse engineer it I would start by laying the tube on top of a head gasket and see what lines up. I'm not sure it would help, but I cant think of anything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 Here's the 36 Olds cooling system. Maybe it isn't that far off. It does have 2 big holes, pointed in-between pairs of exhaust valves. Being brass, it's probably repairable, but better pics or info would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 (edited) Hello Bloo, Unfortunately, I am not able to open/see your photo from your previous post, and I still have not figured out how to, or if I can use the Dorman WT-5 tube as it is, or if I should add some extra holes as you mentioned to the other side... BUT, but, but I just realized (If I opened my eyes) that the two center round holes (almost 1/4") are the only ones to cool the exhaust side of the manifold and the slots on top all point towards the top of the cylinder head... The one question I have is that should the two holes be enlarged or left alone? The one piece that came out of the block had only two 1/2" holes but nothing for the cylinder side... Also of interest, despite the brass tube being shorter by 2-1/4" is that the two holes are about 9" from each end. The WT-5 holes are 8-5/8" from the end... Another thought, if I could find someone with an old DORMAN book, we would find out exactly what they used for a 36 Olds, or anything with a 213 engine which includes GMC T-16 truck... BTW, the GMC part number for the tube is 404158 not present in any publication from Oldmobile from 36 onwards... WHY the mystery tube? Edited April 23, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 (edited) On 4/23/2023 at 9:06 AM, philipj said: Unfortunately, I am not able to open/see your photo from your previous post, and I still have not figured out how to It's just a picture from the 36 Olds sales brochure on http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/ . Let me try again. Blown up a bit.... It's not quite good enough to tell what is going on. I can see the two big holes, so maybe that's all there was. They are pointing left. What I can't see at all is how far the tube went in or what happens at the back end. It seems to me it couldn't be completely closed back there. It must have been at least partially open. On 4/23/2023 at 9:06 AM, philipj said: Another thought, if I could find someone with an old DORMAN book, we would find out exactly what they used for a 36 Olds, or anything with a 213 engine which includes GMC T-16 truck... Yeah. I could have really used that when I was trying to figure out what the difference between 36 and 37 Pontiac was. Nobody ever came forward with a book. Somebody must have one, somewhere. On 4/23/2023 at 9:06 AM, philipj said: BTW, the GMC part number for the tube is 404158 That's good to know. On 4/23/2023 at 9:06 AM, philipj said: not present in any publication from Oldmobile from 36 onwards... WHY the mystery tube? I have no idea. Maybe the 37 tube just works? It sure is different in how it directs the water. I would expect they would just continue supplying the 1936 tube. Has anyone collected Oldsmobile service bulletins from the era? Maybe there could be some at the AACA Library? Edited May 13, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 I see what you see, and it is a great observation, only 2 holes between cylinders 2-3 and 4-5... Very interesting. A service bulletin is a great alternative also, but it seems that aside from us, no one is interested in the topic... Now the AACA library, I think I will try to see what I can find there... I am running out of ideas and almost ready to use that 37-50 tube and call it good... BUT, I want it to be better that good-my problem! Yes, very surprised to see that NO ONE comes forward with a DORMAN book... Someone has to have one! That company made every part imaginable, there has to be a catalog on paper somewhere...:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunchaser Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 I thought that i would chime in on this, attached is the water tube that Egge Machine has for the 1937 GMC/Olds 230 engine, part # WT5. as you can see it is longer than the one that phillpj posted. The GMC part manual has this as part # 408108, whereas the 1936 part # is 404158. Egge lists this at $77.50 plus shipping and It is galvanized steel. I don't know if it could be modified to fit. I have reached out to other GMC truck owners to see if they have one or a source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) Hello there, Thank you very much for chiming in... You post made me double check the measurement on the tube that I have and It is 26-3/4" also. It is identical to yours... It was sold to me as a Dorman WT-5, if the number is correct it has to be a replacement for the original 408108 which was probably made of brass... I am attaching other photos to show the relation of the only two cooling holes with respect to the valves... Mind you it is only an approximation, and despite the fact that in the photos the distortion makes the tube to appear longer, it is 1/8" shorter than the head gasket which is 26-7/8" against 26-3/4" on the tube. Still cannot believe that not a single original tube still exists out there... Edited April 25, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted May 12, 2023 Author Share Posted May 12, 2023 (edited) Here it is a Dorman page from a 1959 catalog listing the WT-5 water tube for the 37-50 Oldsmobile... Unfortunately, it is all I could get from a Ebay vendor... If someone else has an older catalog maybe there is hope for finding the right part number, perhaps in the truck section for a 36 GMC T-16. Edited May 12, 2023 by philipj (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Sorry for the bother @philipj I was just wondering if you ever found the distributor tube for the 36? I have a 1935 Oldsmobile 6 cylinder that I am looking for a distributor tube for as well. I could use some help my self if you have any information you can help me with. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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