replacing my vinyl top on my 68 Electra

[Calvin D]

Im restoring my 68 Electra which needs a new top ,the original top is in good shape just a little faded , the car as a whole is in geat shape , no rust perfect chrome, minor issues , power seats don't work ,tear in drivers side seat ,floor mats worn , (the car runs out the frame), well maintained by the orignal owner ( im the second ) are there any companies <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> out there that have vinyl tops and carpets of good quality I would like to get this BABY like new before I started turning corners ...can any ony one help?

a photo is attached ...

calvin

[gungeey]

Looks like a real cherry, Calvin! Very nice. I'd suggest trying this companys products before going through the complexities of vinyl top replacement...especially since yours is original and merely faded. I've used this stuff with excellent results, bringing mu top to like new condition. It's a 2 part system...a cleaner and conditioner...it's called "Convertible Top Cleaner" I believe, but is used on all vinyl tops.Don't get the fabric cleaner...The site below describes the product better than i...I can only highly recommend it.. Steve

http://www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=kits

[Guest 70 Electra]

My advice is DON'T!! (Replace it, that is)

Does your vinyl top have ANY padding underneath? I am guessing that 1968 is like the earlier years and does not. Test it: push very firmly with your finger and see if there is even the slightest depression of material. If not, you have the early type of vinyl top where the unpadded vinyl is glued directly to the roof.

Why does it matter? Because ALL replacement materials that are available have some small amount of "fuzz" (padding) on the back. These are not authentic for these older cars and will give the top a slightly padded look compared to the original. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I know it's hard to believe that with all the Chevelles GTOs, Camaros, etc, out there that someone somewhere is not making the correct unpadded material. However, it's true, and don't you believe any vendor that says they have the "correct" vinyl!! Ask for a sample of it and look at the underside. FUZZ!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Another problem with PROPERLY replacing the top is that most GM cars used a thin bright stainless molding down in the rain gutter to cover up the area where the vinyl is glued. To properly install the top like the factory, this molding must be removed (as well as the front and rear window moldings). This thin strip is captured in place by the drip rail molding, so the ONLY way to remove it is to remove the drip molding first. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Most commercial top replacements (and many restorations) skip this risky and tedious step. The result is that they put a bead of black RTV in the rain gutter to cover up what they didn't do. (Start looking at cars at car shows and you'll see this all the time)

Now if all that doesn't scare you away, then by all means go ahead and replace your top. However, if you're interested in authenticity and correct appearance, then try everything and anything to SAVE your exisiting top. I figured it's better to mention it BEFORE you start ripping it off. Good luck!

[Centurion]

As a further idea for you if you are concerned about the faded appearance of your vinyl roof . . . There is a highly reputable paint/restoration business in my area that paints vinyl roofs as a means of restoring the color or covering discolored areas. A friend has a '73 Riviera with the vinyl roof that covers the forward portion of the roof. At some point in the past, someone used a cleaner or other chemical on the roof, leaving a large area that was clearly lighter in color than the remainder of the roof. This particular shop painted the vinyl (while still on the car) to match the rest of the vinyl roof area, and it looks perfect. Others may know more about this process than me, and I think it would be important to pick someone very knowledgeable about this process. It may be a way to salvage your original vinyl roof without removing it from the car.

[Guest my3buicks]

I know of several show cars in my area that had the tops painted and they look great, a couple even did a color change. If the top is in good condition other than color or fading, by all means go with the re-dye job.

[Guest John Chapman]

Calvin,

In view of the above comments, I recommend you look at SEM products http://www.semproducts.com/ They make pretty good stuff. A lot easier than replacing...

Cheers,

John

[Guest wildcat65401]

okay then gentlemen ,

what about this . the top on my '69 electra is really bad and must be replaced , what do i do ?? its green by the way .

[NTX5467]

If you can indent the vinyl fabric (gently) with your finger nail, the basic vinyl fabric might be able to be "saved" a little. That would entail treating it with appropriate vinyl top "renewal" liquids and processes. If you can't indent it easily, the oils in the vinyl fabric have gone away and you'll probably never get it back to anything near "like new".

Anytime you start such an activity, the first thing should be to completely clean it with approved soap and water and a soft bristle brush. Let the soap do the work and use the brush to get in the low places in the fabric (the grooves in the pattern). This can take some time and lubricated elbows, but it's the first thing that should be done. Might even take a few cleanings to get it all done.

If the color is still good, I think I'd try some of the protectant products (I personally like the STP Son of a Gun as it's not too shiney and "obvious"). Use a large car wash sponge to apply it and let it sit in the garage as it soaks in. It might take several applications over several days before no additional protectant is absorbed by the vinyl. When that happens, let it soak little bit longer before the final buff off. Hopefully, the vinyl should be a little softer (finger nail test again) and look nicer. It'll also bead water so wiping it off will prevent streaks later on as it runs down the paint in the rain (possibly). Naturally, a warm environment helps this whole absorption process along.

This will probably help extend the life some as you decide if it really needs replacing or you decide to use it as is.

As for "painting", I would recommend "dyeing" as the best way to do it. Make sure the gloss of the dye will match the gloss of the original top or it'll look "worked on" if it's too shiney or glossy. "Paint" will probably have a less resilient surface and not look "accurate".

As for replacement vinyl top fabric, the thicker backed top fabric of the later '60s has not been available "new" since the early '70s when the change to "gauze back" fabric took place. Even the reproduction vinyl tops for the '60s muscle cars and such available from the top reproduction vendors are the gauze back variation. The additional uncompressed build thickness between the thick back and gauze back (fuzzy) fabrics is probably just 1/16".

As for replacement, the drip rail mouldings probably should be removed. Only thing is that I don't know of a good way to do that and not have it show on the moulding. One friend said they used a common can openner to get his off, but it also had little dimples in it every few inches too. The moulding is just a snap fit anyway, so a better procedure to remove it might be found. Either way, it'll be labor intensive plus you risk damaging the moulding itself.

Not removing the moulding results in the "substandard" reseal methods mentioned. Some of the factory tops did use sealer in the drip rails to seal the edge of the top to the drip rail trough with the sealer being in the bottom of the channel and what the water actually contacted there. Checking your factory service manual for the vehicle might be enlightening in this respect as it could detail the "field fix" methods which GM recommended for warranty vinyl top replacement situations.

I think I'd try to save the top to start with. It'll take some time and effort to do that (as mentioned). If it comes back good enough to please, fine, if not you've bought some time to see what your options are.

The GM "grain" fabric typically was what all of the vinyl top shops used if no one was picky about what was put on in an "after the fact" installation or replacement. It was common and still should be, if it's what I think it was . . . "Levant Grain"?

Once you find someone with the basic fabric, then the width of the "rails" in the fabric would be of concern as they need to match what you have. I believe this was prior to the later "Center Seam" GM vinyl tops so there would have been one wide head welded seam running the lenght of the top on each side. Kind of like a simulated convertible top configuration.

Of course, competent installation of the new top would be important. Making sure it's glued down good will prevent the prevalent "bubble" in the fabric when the car is "at speed" on the highway. This might be one reason the thick back was replaced with the gauze back top fabric?

Check out the various muscle car related national activities where the main vendors will be. i.e., Super Chevy Sunday, Mopar Nationals, GS Nationals, etc. Then you can effectively shop to see what the various vendors have (Year One, Inc., Legendary Interiors, and a few other national vendors would be good places to start). While the backing might be thin, there have been observed variations in the thickness of the vinyl on top of the backing that ARE significant when you put the two fabrics side by side. Of course, the thicker one will look better and last longer and cost is typically pretty close for the thinner one compared to the thick one. Thick is better!

Of course, having recently manufacturer fabric would be a plus rather than trying to use NOS fabrics (unless the car will be a total 400 point class contender). Key thing is that the NOS fabric will be as old as the vehicle and will possibly be partially "dried out" whereas the new stuff would be "new".

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467