1947 Chrysler Windsor No Spark

[caddy60s]

Some time ago I Had asked for help on my 1947 Chrysler Windsor that had no spark--- since that time i have covered most of the replys  such as-- The rotor does turn, the points open & close, the gap setting on the poins are correct.  I installed a new coil & points. When I turn on the ignition there dose not appear to have any movememnt of the gauges. If I turn the lights on the Ammeter gauge

does move.  In testing there appears to be no power at the coil.  My limited knowledge of car wiring has left me stumped.  The start of the problems was with the transmission relay for the Fluid drive system. I had the relay gone over and cleaned to make sure the fuse was connecting.  Again in my limited knowledge of wiring it is almost like a ground condition?  Any help would be very much appreciated,

 

Bruce Watson

[61polara]

Do you have spark at the points when they open and close with the ignition switch on?  If so the coil has power.  Do you have power at the negative terminal of the coil with the ignition switch on?  If you don't have spark at the points but do have power to the coil, lightly file or sand the points and check again for spark.  If no power to the coil, it could be a bad ignition switch.

[TerryB]

Bruce, let’s give this a look.

1. Can you measure the voltage of the battery at the battery itself- should be -6.3 volts as this car is pos ground.  What do you measure?

 

2.You need to have battery voltage to the key tumbler. Usually a wire goes from the starter into the firewall to make connection at the back of the key so that voltage will go from the key tumbler to the battery side of the coil. With the key in the on position there should be a steady voltage on the battery side, not the points side, of the coil.  This should be about -6.0 volts give or take about 0.3 volts. Can you make this measurement? The engine block can be used as ground reference.
 

Report what you measure for above.

 

Do you have a wiring diagram for the car?

 

[caddy60s]

Terry B

 

At the Battery It reads 5.97

 

At the Ign key tumbler the reading is 5.95

 

Yes I have a wiring diagram for the correct model, of the car.

 

Bruced Watson

[TerryB]

Bruce, with the key ON, can you measure the coil voltage on the coil terminal that does NOT go to the distributor.  This is the terminal that should have battery voltage on it constantly when the key is on.

[caddy60s]

Terry

 

With the ignition on and testing as you suggested the reading is 0

 

B ruce

[TerryB]

2 minutes ago, caddy60s said:

Terry

 

With the ignition on and testing as you suggested the reading is 0

 

B ruce

Well, that’s the issue Bruce.  There has to be battery voltage (-6.0 ) on that terminal when the key is on.  Does the coil battery voltage terminal have two wires on it which I think are green in color?  

[caddy60s]

Terry,   there are 2 wires on the Negative side of the coil color is not recognizable  one wire goes to the Transmission relay and the other wire is from a bundle just under the coil,  it appears that all the wiring is origina!

 

Bruce

[TerryB]

I think one of the wires from the battery voltage side of the coil (green wire?) goes to the relay you were working on.  With the key off, disconnect the (green) wire from the relay, I think it’s labeled B or Batt then turn the key ON and see if you now measure steady battery voltage at the coil.

[caddy60s]

Terry,

 

Yes there is a wire that goes to the battery terminal on the relay I disconnected that one  still 0 at the coil

 

Bruce

 

 

[TerryB]

I’m looking at the wiring diagram I found on line and see what I come up with.

[caddy60s]

Terry,

 

OK

 

 

[TerryB]

Do both (green)wires on the battery side of the coil connection go into one terminal connector or does each wire have its own terminal on the end?  I’m thinking of mechanical sturdiness of the connectors themselves.  You could try disconnecting the two wires on the battery side of the coil and giving them a slight tug on the connector or connectors to see if they are making good connections with the wires.

[TerryB]

And one more question, did the car run before the repair to the transmission relay was made?

[caddy60s]

Yes it did

 

Bruce

[TerryB]

1 minute ago, caddy60s said:

Yes it did

 

Bruce

Good!

[TerryB]

The wiring diagram I have shows that when the key is in the on position, the wire going to the battery side of the coil should have battery voltage on it and the second wire goes from the coil to the trans relay.  By removing the wire on the trans relay that should have taken the relay out of the circuit in case it was affecting the coil. If the coil terminal is still 0 volts the relay is not the problem.

 

Somehow we have to find why with the key on there is no battery voltage at the coil.  It could be a bad connection at the ignition switch or the switch itself is not making contact for some reason or the wire from the switch to the coil is loose or broken.

[TerryB]

16 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Do both (green)wires on the battery side of the coil connection go into one terminal connector or does each wire have its own terminal on the end?  I’m thinking of mechanical sturdiness of the connectors themselves.  You could try disconnecting the two wires on the battery side of the coil and giving them a slight tug on the connector or connectors to see if they are making good connections with the wires.

After tugging on the wires/connectors see if you measure any voltage.  You can do that with the key on and connect your meter to the wires.  They do not have to be on the coil.

 

I will be off line and will check back later.  Some friends are stopping by in a few minutes.

[caddy60s]

Terry

With the key on I can turn the engine over, Iam not sure if that is important.

 

The wires that I mentioned earlier that were in a bundle under the coil did not appear to be in good shape--- it could be the one that comes from the ignition switch has been compromised, which in turn would cause the problem we are having.  Would it make sense to run a wire from  the ignition switch directly to the coil if so what gauge would you suggest. Or better still what would your recommendations be?

 

 

Bruce

 

[caddy60s]

Terry,

 

I will check all connections,

 

The wire that comes from the Ignition comes from the bundle that I mentioned & is a good connection  that did not appear to be in good shape and I have checked that connection as well as the wire that goes to the relay is a tight connection.

 

Bruce

[caddy60s]

26 minutes ago, caddy60s said:

 

Terry,

 

In answer to your question about the 2 green wires on the battery side of the coil, each wire has its own terminal Which I have tug on and made sure they were well secured.   

In checking the coil once a gain ther is no sign of any voltage.  I also checked the battery connection at the relay & it show 5.7 V

[TerryB]

There must be some kind of inner connection from another component  in the relay that is making the battery terminal show a voltage.  Strange.

 

If the car turns over with the starter button, that is another good sign.  Doesn’t the point side of the coil also have a connection to the relay?  I see what appears to be a connection like that on the wiring diagram.

 

For the car to run it need to have 6v at the battery side of the coil. You could hook up a “hot wire” from the battery connection at the starter to the battery post on the coil.  I would disconnect both relay wires from the coil if you choose to do this.  Use a clip-on connection at the battery cable point on the starter and/or on the connection at the coil so that you can disconnect the wire to stop the engine when it starts.

 

So you would have a single wire with clips with one end connected to the battery terminal of the coil and the other end of the wire connected to the starter’s big battery side wire.  This jumper wire would be made of 16 AWG stranded wire for flexibility.  The end that is going to the coil MUST NOT a touch ground or it will short out the battery and the wire will be too hot to touch!

 

On the points side of the coil there would only be a single wire connected from the coil to the distributor and no wires going to the trans relay would be connected to the coil.

 

Now you will have battery volts on the coil and by turning on the key and pressing the starter button, the car should start.  The problem will be that it will continue to run even with the key off.  You will have to disconnect the battery side jumper wire from the coil to get it to stop running.  The key will have no effect.  That will verify the car still runs.

 

At this point it’s getting late for me and I have to sign off now.  I will check in the morning to see if you have any questions.  I’m on the east coast in PA for reference.

 

Good luck!

[caddy60s]

Terry,

 

Thank you very much for all your help and I will prepare to try to follow thru with your ideas.   We are on the west coast of Canada (3 hours apart)

 

Regards

 

Bruce

[TerryB]

Bruce, my son lives in California so I’m used to dealing with the time difference.

 

Another place you could get battery voltage to connect to the coil with your hot wire is on the BAT terminal of the voltage regulator.  Check first to verify the battery voltage is indeed present on that terminal before making the connection.  The BAT voltage regulator terminal should always be at battery voltage regardless of the key being off or on.  Again, if you use this point do not let your hot wire contact ground and you will have to remove the wire to get the car to stop running as the key will have no effect.

[caddy60s]

Good afternoon Terry,

 

We live within blocks of the US border, 23 miles from Vancouver,   getting the information on the hot wire system I though it best to get one of the members from the car club to give me a hand so it may be a while before I get back to it.  I will be in touch later, thanks again for all you help you dont know how much I appreciate the time you spent ,

 

Regards

 

Bruce

[TerryB]

Not a problem Bruce.  Glad to help when I can.