OK..enough...how do we get prices down ?

[BuickNut]

Enough said about insults...lets keep it straight and productive. This effects our economy and our wallets. Is BCA by chance trying to work with any of the other organizations to put pressure on those that wield the power to investigate this and stop it ? I have a slew of old cars I have spent many hours trying to keep on the road only to have the price of gas do what mother nature and time couldn't do to my cars. Any comments ?<P>Thanks

[Guest]

I hope this thread stays clean and to the topic as BuickNut hopes.<P>The only thing I can think of here is to drive sparingly, put the cheapest stuff in you can find, roll the windows down instead of the AC being on (which is fun anyways in hardtops & converts), tune up everything, close the secondaries if you can, and hope.<P>Hope springs eternal.. :-/<P>I would say try want Mr. Boogey on Ch2 does now and then, but everyone just fills up the day before which accomplishes nothing.<P>Maybe it's possible to run on 10% gas and 90% toluene? Converting to other fuels if possible?<P>Finding someone with steel balls to threaten OPEC? haha<P>Just my true thoughts.. <P>-S<BR>

[Dave@Moon]

One more thing CyberBuick didn't mention, <I> always </I> buy gas at the least expensive outlet (providing that the product is acceptable to your car). The 2 closest gas stations to my house are both Citgo stations, owned by the same convience store owner, located within 1.25 miles of each other. Gas at the store towards the wealthier side of town is always 5 to 8 cents higher than the same guy's other store. Guess what, the expensive store always has more cars fueling up there (probably becase it is larger and more high-tone). <P>Another thing that can be done, all things being equal always use gas from the smallest oil supplier serving your area. Personally I always avoid Exxon anyway because of some run-ins with them when I was an environmental inspector for the PA-DER. The big guys (Exxon-Mobil, Unocal, Shell, etc.) derive their influence on the powers that would regulate them because of their power in the market. Maybe that can be shaved slightly.<P>Both are pathetically ineffective compared to simply avoiding using the car and only using the smallest car you need, but at least you can feel a little better about who you give your money to. Also if you're using a heavy truck or SUV to pick up the dry cleaning you're not wisely using resources in the first place.<P>Finally, don't expect much help from Washington on this (steel balls! ). One year ago your Vice-President (Cheney) was the sitting CEO of Haliburton. He spent his time directing the lobbying of the Senators he now presides over on the subjects of increased oil exploration in sensitive areas and having his company's patented modified MTBE approved for oxygenated fuels. Haliburton also makes a little money digging holes for OPEC countries, as I recall. (I tried to check, but they've taken down their web site. Hmmm....)<P>The very idea that this adminstration has anything like the will to pressure the oil industry on prices is downright funny. We elected Exxon et al to run the country for us. Well, SUPRISE!!!!

[Guest]

I'm still young, so I don't know as much about these sort of things. Just what companies are considered the "smaller oil companies?" I use Hess almost exclusivly because they are always 3-8 cents cheaper than everyone else, at least w/high-test. Is Hess considered a smaller company? What about Sunoco? My young mind is very curius.

[Guest]

As always, I enjoy what Dave has to say. <P>By steel balls, I was thinking maybe Greenpeace. They don't seem to have any boundries. haha Kind of like PETA.<P>Yea, we (not me) shoved the two rich oil guys in office, so people, here's whatcha get for that chad of yours..<P>I would be interested like 73Electra to know some of those 'smaller places'.. Here in SoCal I don't believe I've seen one. Unless you count Arco which is just as pricey as the rest of 'em. Anyone in SoCal have a 'special' place to drive to? <P>Cheers!<P>-S<BR>

[Guest]

I don't know how those expensive places stay in business. I always use USA Gasoline or Arco just because their cheap. <P>I never buy Chevron or 76 because back in the mid 90's they were crushing classic cars for pollution credits. 76 eventually started setting some classics aside but I thought it was to little to late. As far as I know they don't crush cars anymore, but I'll keep my grudge.

[86 2dr.ltd]

Last year I was driving about 15 - 30 minutes (city driving)out of my way to buy cheaper gas from USA.<P>I made a delivery there when they were building it so I began to get to know the guy.He was young and decent enough.He was from Turkey,not a citizen,prefered his homeland better of course.In those countrys they pool together money, come to the U.S. start a business(no loan).Sending the extra profits back home plus the exchange rate they really begin to accumulate wealth.Smart idea and you cant really damn them but it screams thunder for our society.I eventually stopped because I could feel they thought lowley of us "Americans".<P>If we all could stay home from work and I mean ALL.Each and every one of us that is under $40,000 per year and not go to work till incomes were brought closer together and the social and economical classes redefined then we the once lowly would not have the desire to whine because we would be less hit in the pocket.If the wife and I were in the 60,000 to 80,000 bracket I would be ashamed to cry about a few quarters per gallon.<P>Which would have the most intolerable effect on the world?<P>If the producers of the world stayed home or<P>if the doctors,lawyers,politicians,ceos,presidents,vice presidents and all those highly paid what do you do all day long people stayed home.<P>Of course this will never happen and we would never be able to hold out but it is a fact that our doings for our meager wages are really what makes the world go around.<P>No "Rush" this is not class envy.I could not nor would I want to do the jobs of the white collar.I just dont see what makes the real productive people of the world worth so LITTLE! It takes all kinds to make a world.I dont want your money I want mine.

[Guest]

Seen on a bumper sticker in Florida:<P>HONK if you voted for Gore. (It's the big button in the middle of the steering wheel)

[BuickNut]

Good input...rational thoughts too. This may be an excuse for me to start joining some car groups (BCA for one) and start to get involved...maybe get a number of the clubs and organizations together and apply some pressure to our fearful leaders.<P>On a more practical note....ok guys, I think its not going to work, but I'm and engineer and the THEORY behind it sounds good...but I actually am trying out a gadget from JC Whitney that is supposed to increase gas milage. I'm trying it out on my '86 V6 4X4 Ranger which I have a very good handle on the gas milage. I guess its relatively cheap enough that if it works, I have a number of older cars ('67 Ford Wagon, '70 Caddy Convertible, and...yes - a 73 BUICK Century GS Stage I) with BIGGGG engines generally needing Hi Test, that I do drive alot during the summer, that would benefit. If it doesn't work...oh well, add me to the duped masses that fell for the gag. I'll keep you posted as to the results after 2 weeks of driving the Ranger.

[BuickNut]

Hey..young and into old cars...good show- keep the hobby going. The big companies are like Mobile, Shell, Marathon to name a few. I am guilty of going against the good advice of boycotting the bigger places because Marathon is a US company, and funny enough, they have some cheaper stations in the area - as well as also being on the expensive end of the spectrum in other areas (agreeing with the "what part of town theory" already brought up). I strongly suggest, however, you ask around of your friends and family about some of the smaller stations they might regularly go - without haveing gotten bad gas, as I used to ocassionally go to a Meier Store gas station because of price, and got a bad tankful of gas that cost me plenty in replacing the fuel injectors of my Ranger. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 73Electra 225:<BR><B>I'm still young, so I don't know as much about these sort of things. Just what companies are considered the "smaller oil companies?" I use Hess almost exclusivly because they are always 3-8 cents cheaper than everyone else, at least w/high-test. Is Hess considered a smaller company? What about Sunoco? My young mind is very curius. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

[caGSxlr8]

BuickNUT,<P>I hope you are not testing one of those devices that goes in-line with your fuel line with magnets mounted on each side. I had the honer of working for a company 10 years ago that the president of the company fell for the "saves fuel" pitch and actually started manufacturing these devices. In theory the magnets are supposed to align the molecules in the gasoline making it burn more efficiently . I still have one of these devices and found it works best to hold papers to my refridgerator . <P>Good luck with your testing..

[Guest John Chapman]

Dave Moon,<P>Halliburton: <A HREF="http://www.halliburton.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.halliburton.com/</A> <P>Cheers,<BR>JMC

[Guest Skyking]

Hey Guys ! Be thankful we can still buy gas for these cars. You kow as well as I, some day the government is going to tell us we can't drive these cars anymore. We can all see the writing on the walls. And it's going to be like everything else. People will [censored] and complain and know one will do a dam thing about it. That's my 2-cents !!

[Dave@Moon]

John,<P>That site was down 2 days ago, with an "under construction" message. I've noticed 2 things about it since. First, Dick Cheney doesn't appear on it any more (his face seemed to be on almost every page last summer). Second, I could only find one reference to MTBE, and that was compatbility note on a blending device (last summer there were a number of articals posted or linked to their search engine on some kind of modified MTBE that they'd patented and wanted to market).

[Dave@Moon]

<B>Fortune 500 Rankings of Petroleum Refiners:</B><P>Exxon/Mobil, #1.<BR>Texaco, #16<BR>Chevron, #20<BR>USX (Marathon), #39<BR>Conoco, #44<BR>Tosco, #72<BR>Phillips, #89<BR>Valero Energy, #131<BR>Ultramar Diamond Shamrock, #137<BR>Sunoco, #154<BR>Ameralda Hess, #158<BR>Premcor, #249<BR>Tesoro Petroleum, #343<BR>Murphy oil, #370<BR>Frontier Oil, #691<BR>Crown Central Petroleum, #768<P>The number rankings are Fortune Magazine's Revenue Rankings.<P><B> Fortune "World 500" Rankings for Petroleum Refiners </B><P>Exxon/Mobil, #3<BR>Royal Dutch/Shell Group, #11<BR>BP/Amoco, #17<BR>Total Fina Elf, #50<BR>Sinopec, #58<BR>Texaco, #86<BR>ENI, #89<BR>Chevron, #101<BR>PDVSA, #102<BR>SK, #105<BR>Repsol YF, #122<BR>USX (Marathon), #147,<BR>Nippon/Mitsubishi, #167<BR>Conoco, #199<BR>Indian Oil, #232<BR>Statoil, #247<BR>Petrobras, #280<BR>Indemitsu Kosan, #290<BR>Petronas, #311<BR>Tosco, #332<BR>Phillips Petroleum, #347<BR>Japan Energy, #363<BR>Atlantic Richfield, #373<BR>Ultramar Diamond Shamrock, #448<BR>Cosmo Oil, #473<P>Ranking numbers are the companies' "Global 500 Revenue Rank".<P>If someone could assign brand names to some of the less obvious producers, it would probably be more helpful.<P>I also keep getting this piece of chain junk email from a "John Gray" trying of organize a nationwide boycott of Exxon/Mobil in order to put pressure on them (the largest) to bring down prices. I do it anyway for other reasons, but the argument he makes is more or less the logic behind my original post. Unfortunately, as I said, it's a lot more effective to just not use gas if possible. <P>So let's all run out and fill up on Cosmo!!

[Guest]

Dave ~ And those guys are still merging. Pretty soon there will be just one BIG oil company. I think we are in trouble. Consider buying oil stocks so at least we will, in some small way, be buying from ourselves. <P>hvs

[Guest]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>One thing here...Gas prices continually fluctuate...The things we should all strive for is better fuel economy from our vehicles, not the increasing prices...<BR>A 90's honda will get up to 50mpg, while MOST of our Buicks average around 10 -12mpg..<BR>We should all look for ways to IMPROVE the fuel economy of our cars..<BR>Someone mentioned a jc whitney gadget?<BR>This is probably the magnetic device I seen everwhere..Trust me, it won't work on older cars..This device works on magnetism & electro magnetism..basically, it contains the magnetic particles from the fuel & bonds these particles to the fuel line! The little device is nothing more than a big magnet..If you put this on your older carburated vehicles, you'll end up starving your vehicle & your fuel pump will blow alot sooner because it'll end up working twice as hard!

[Guest]

I wish I could put one of those Honda engines in my 73 Electra, in place of the 455. But I don't think it has enough power. Instead, I decided to drop in an SBC since the displacement is smaller and I could get a few more MPGs. I was lucky enough to use the profits from the oil stock that I sold last week to accomplish this.

[Guest]

Hahaha? Good sarcasm retatiga.<P>Gas prices here only seem to go up. Last time I was out the 76 I looked at was 1.88 for 87oct and 2.04 for 89oct, with 92oct being an outrageous 2.14! That's the highest I've ever seen in the valley. I don't want to think of what it is in downtown LA. <P>I say if you want a lil 4cyl import, that's your business. Just remember whose tracks you'll be seeing down the highway. <P>I believe it or not, I do care about the environment as I think most sensible people do as well. But saying that a Honda will get 50mpg is ridicules. The best 'true engine' will get in the 30's on the highway.<P>If you want to speak up about driving a 'friendly & efficient' car, then purchase a Honda Insight or Toyota Prius. The new hybrids that 'do' get over 50mpg. I enjoy the Insight commercial which has a rundown VW van with 60's stuff plastered all over it, then up comes an Insight. The statement, which should you do, Talk about the environment, or Show that you care.<P>It's a good commercial IMHO. It says alot. <P>One thing I didn't care for was my last trip car looking at a Honda dealership, he practically refused to talk about or even attempt to sell me an Insight. The same thing happened at Toyota. They just weren't interested. So I say, to those few who are willing to buy one, don't let the sales jerks veer you to a Civic or Echo. Would I buy one? Yes, an Insight as it doesn't look like an alien-mobile. Anyone have around 18k to gimme? hahaha<P>Everyone with a good ol' classic can do what they can by doing a tune-up, driving less, adjusting your carbs, closing the secondaries if you can. Think of it, I've read people with Q-Jets get as good as 18 or so, but as bad as 7. Close the secondaries, keep it at 18mph. :-)<P>If you have a import or 'small' car, drive it, it'll save on the bills. Many common sense things can be done to improve mileage. But they are common sense items, so use whatcha got.<P>Now, I didn't mean to come off as anything other then just a tad annoyed. If it's more then that, well I'm sorry. But it just boggles my mind sometimes how people can have so little common sense. People who drive 70 on the highway while raining, is one example. Heaven knows there's plenty of them in SoCal.<P>Well, that's my added 2 cents worth.<p>[ 04-23-2001: Message edited by: CyberBuick ]

[Dave@Moon]

Cyberbuick,<P>You <I> can </I> do a little better than the 30's on the highway, if you are prudent and you keep your car in good tune. I got 38 mpg out of my Saturn going to Indiy for the USGP last year, and that car has the twin cam motor <I> and </I> an automatic. My personal record for big trips is Pittsburgh to Wilkes-Barre (320 miles) @ 44 mpg. That was in an '86 Dodge Colt (and no, there was no big tailwind). <P>The new Insight and Prius are the ultimate mileage commuters. New York City just bought a fleet of Insights for official use. (Interestingly, the tailpipe emmissions on those cars is occasionally cleaner than ambient air conditions in New York. They should be driving those cars all over Phoenix and L.A. with their air problems!) <P>One word of caution, however. They are designed for stop-and-go driving, and actually get fewer mpg on the highway! If you do a lot of rural driving, you might be better off with a Metro or an Echo. <P>This is a Buick forum, isn't it?

[Guest]

Dave, oh sweet dave, <P>A friend has a '96 Saturn SC2 with everything on it. It gets good mileage, probably why I borrow it to drive into LA. haha<P>I didn't think you could do 'that' good however. 44mpg on a '86 Dodge? One word, How?<P>Define prudent in driving habbits. In good tune, I would presume meaning plugs, timing, points, distrib, carb. A fair presumption?<P>I think it's good that NYC bought a fleet of Insights, I can also believe that it would produce cleaner emmisions then the city has.<P>I haven't seen any Insights or Prius's in LA. I've seen a total of 2 of those Electric cars.<P>Indeed it is a Buick forum, but hey, everythings GM ain't it? :-)<P>Gotta run..<P>-S

[Guest]

Hi, I have a question, and it has nothing to do with Buicks, but maybe you guys know:<BR>Why does a modern full size chevy truck get twice the mileage that a jeep cherokee v8 gets? Are the v8's that Chrysler uses so obsolete?? I would like to know. I looked under the hood of a new Jeep a month ago (there are not many around here)and thought I was taken back to the sixties.<BR>And why are there hardly diesel engines in the US??Most Mercedes and BMW here are diesels.Just curious..

[Guest elk93001]

Good fuel economy can actually be had in a V8. I consistently would get 30-31 mpg (highway) on my 79 Regal with a V8 going to and from New Haven CT to Harrisburg. 145,000 miles on the clock too. When it would go through the sniffer test, it registered better than newer cars with much more emissions "stuff." <BR>(My car only had a PCV, EGR, a couple of vacuum delay valves and a ported vacuum switch, catalytic converter, no smog pump)<P>The key is proper state of tune (not just plugs, check for vacuum leaks and make sure all connections in wiring are clean and not corroded, clean out the fins on your radiator and condenser.)If your not at the drag strip no jack rabbit starts/launches. If you have AC, use it once in a while to cool the vents and interior down(remember if you don't use it, components and seals can wear out and the even more scarce R12 goes out into the atmosphere, now that's another supply and demand story!) Combine trips so that you don't have to waste gas (if the engine is warm it is supposed to be more efficient).If the oil companies want to be greedy, we can be just as greedy with our money!

[BuickNut]

The "magic" gas saver I am using is out of JC Whitney....its called the Tornado and the idea behind it is to induce turbulence into the air flow prior to the intake. If this is properly optimized, it will increase the homogeneaity of the air/fuel thus increasing combustion efficiency - hopefully puts more air/fuel ratio at the proper mix for combustion. Again, if the engineers that made the gaget did their homework and properly optimized it. I took my first reading after 1 week and milage increased from 16.5 city to 18.1 city....about 10%. I'll know better when I get 2 or more readings under by belt...but it does seem to improve milage a bit.

[Guest COMPACTBC]

On the TV this week they said that Union 76 aka Tosco has the patents on MTBE and all of the other oil companies have to pay them a royalty of about 6 cents a gallon. Unless Halliburton is related to Tosco/Union 76, I don't think they are getting $$ from the water pollutant MTBE. I've always been under the impression that Halliburton was an oil well service and drilling company. Back to Tosco/Union 76, in this mornings Orange County Register's business section there was a large article about how Tosco,which has 17% of California's gasoline market, has changed its pricing strategy. They are hoping to sell less gas at a higher price, and are leap-frogging over competitors and took the lead in the state's gasoline price run up. Tosco has raised its price for dealers more than 20 cents per gallon in April. One of their stations in San Juan Capistrano is charging $2.19 per gallon for regular unleaded. They had a huge fire yesterday at their refinery yesterday. I wonder what the price jump will be next month?

[86 2dr.ltd]

If we should conserve crude and curb our foolish unnessesary waste of it.It must be done in reasonable manor.Raising the price to do it is going to hurt the people with businesses that need it or the lower working class that really need to get to work in whatever car they happened to afford at the time.However the people that can afford it will continue the wastfull running around or how about all the flying,how much fuel does a flight cross country use. Ive never needed to fly around to be a productive part of society,is all this necessary or just wastefull business fun. Our lakes are loaded with boats,this slowed way down in my area in the later 70's but know theres boats everywere.Ive mentioned the snowmobile problem before and those ATV's are everywhere eventhough they are forbidden most places,go figure.<P> Now dont get me wrong I grew up with a boat,did tons of water skiing as well as snow skiing.My friends had dirt bikes and rarely let me take off on one because I'd be gone awhile,and there still is nothing I like more than a good cruise on Sunday.<P>To try to controll usage by raising prices is only going to slow down the lower income levels.The yahts will still leave port and the jets still fly and the people that can afford to buy new cars that save gas will.<P>We've devoloped a society that depends on petroleum.If we need to conserve it ,conserve it,and stop the wastfull usage first before robbing the people that are stuck in a economy that cant bare the burden, or more realisticaly are not the big problem and should not have to bare the burdon.<P>Our government is going to have to make a stand here and take positive action to deal with the real picture not just stand back and let the blows fall where ever.

[Dave@Moon]

CyberBuick,<P>One word: Mitsubishi (actually that's 2 words, it means 3 diamonds in Japanese--thus the tuna!). <P>Dodge Colts were Mitsubishi Mirages in disguise. They were worthy competators to the Honda Civic. I drove that car 72,000 miles on 2 sets of tires, plugs, oil and filters. I traded it in with the original brake linings still in (and still good). And that's a car that spent half its life in the Pocono Mountains, and the other half in very hilly Pittsburgh.<P>elk93001 just described prudent driving about as well as I could, including the vehicle maintenance that is necessary. Smoothness and restraint is the key, and the slower--the better.<P>Also try keeping your speed as absolutely constant as possible. When I was in graduate school in Iowa in 1980, I was suprised to find that <I> every </I> state owned car in the Iowa State University fleet had cruise control. All of them, even though most of them had plain vinyl seats. They ordered them that way because in mostly rural Iowa using cruise control saved 1-2 mpg. This savings often paid for the device several times over during the life of the car. <P>Buick Nut,<P>Consumer Reports and Car Talk have both gone on record as testing the Tornado in several cars and finding no appreciable gain in fuel economy. This device is a set if spiral shaped vains that direct the air flowing into the carburator venturi into a vortex flow. The concept is to more thoroughly mix the fuel and air, but it's thought that any engine design with decent breathing characteristics isn't going to benefit much, if at all.<P>Keep us posted, though. And don't cheat by doing a tune up at the same timme as the installation of the device. <P>The idea is quite old, in fact. A few years ago one of the car mags (I think it was Cars & Parts) published a bunch of old ads for "miracle devices", including something absolutely identical to the Tornado.<P>Art,<P> Both Jeep and GM have introduced all new V8 engine series within the last 2-3 years. (If you want to see "old", look at a Jeep 4.0 six. It's the old AMC 258 from the early '60s with upgrades.) <P>I think the difference you're noting is between 2 and 4 wheel drive units. Four wheel drive is a very expensive luxury in terms of fuel economy, even the very best all wheel drive units cost 3-5 mpg over a 2 wheel drive system. If you're driving one of these things, and like 93% of all such drivers, <I> never </I> leave paved surfaces with it, then Exxon has a word for you. It's: <B> "THANKS!" </B>

[Guest nailswede]

In sweden i pay over one dollar per litre now..thats what i call expensive!

[Guest nailswede]

by the way...didn't amc and jeep buy the v6 from buick in late sixties?

[Guest]

Rover bought the tooling for buick's v-6.

[Guest]

Dave,<P>Impressive car ya had there! If I may ask, why did you give it up?<P>"Proper state of tune" Okay, well, I just did a full tune up including rebuilding the carb (yet again). I have no probs checking for vac leaks, pleanty of wd40 & carb cleaner, but, where are the better places to check? Obviously, the carb, but where else?<P>Condenser & Rad fins are all good, which is impressive to me. I will use the A/C more often now after today's 100 degree temps. I came back to CA for a reason, good weather, now where is it! <P>Due to my engine noises, I've been very "old lady" like in driving lately unless some jerk rides my ass.<P>Lastly, clean electrical connections. Well, lets see. Anyone have any tricks to cleaning all those black connectors? [g] I wanted to replace battery cables when I replaced the starter but couldn't pull the positive cable from the harness, so I emory-boarded everything there. My windshield washer pump fails to work (it's new), probably poor connections. But whats the trick tool to clean those small tight spaces?? What connections should I be 'sure' to clean? I would think some are important while others are not.<P>Before I could only get 11.5mpg average, thats was at it's best. I haven't used a tank yet after the new parts, but I doubt it'll be much better. Hence why I was asking about the 4bbl conversion in another thread. I know the Q-Jets can get better mileage then the 2-Jets can.<P>86 2dr: The government ain't gonna do sh*t to help us with the Gas situation, you have oil men in 'house' now. We work, we pay, we pay more, they sit back, do nothing and get richer.<P>I'd also like to blame the 'house ppl' for the sh*tty weather we had today. <P>I'm done. Litterally, pan fried on both sides. haha :-)<P>Thanks Guys!!<P>-S

[Guest]

Originally posted by Anders Larsson:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>In sweden i pay over one dollar per litre now..thats what i call expensive!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, but you guys have all the hot girls over there!!! <p>[ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: onebadassbuick ]

[Guest nailswede]

V6 again...i mean that engine they later bought back and became 3.8 and later 3800!<BR>same parts fitts both jeep v6 and buick v6 as far as i heard..i've read about this here on internet somewere..i think on a GN or T-type site..

[Guest nailswede]

HOT SWEDISH GIRLS some one mention here<BR> yeah i heard that to!!that they are HOT..<BR>sadly they dont think i am hot to

[BuickNut]

Folks...an update on the Tornado "miracle" gas saving gadget : first reading was 18.4 MPG; second reading was 19.4 MPG compared to the baseline 16.5 MPG found earlier. Note I made only 2 changes from the 16.5 MPG readings : I added the Tornado and per their suggestion, added a K&N Filtercharger- readings were over the same trek from home to work to home each day ..also note there was a "seat of the pants" increase in performance...maybe 5-10 hp (???), but at least noticable The breathing characteristics are terrible on my truck- 2 90degree bends in the airflow path from start to finish...but the increase in MPG is enough justification that I'm going to get the same setup for my other cars. Anything I got over 18 MPG (city driving) is gravy. I don't know what the magazines did in their testing...and I don't dispute their results...but for my particular application, it does work.

[Guest nailswede]

Anybody that now how many liters is one gallon? 3.75?<P>

[Guest]

1 gallon (gal) (U.S. liquid) converts to 3.785411800000000 litre (L)<P>Conversion was done using ProKon 8.4

[Guest nailswede]

9-10 MPG with my caravan after the wildcat is not so very economic but with the ratio i orderd last week it might be better from 3.42 to 2.78

[Guest COMPACTBC]

Attention 73 Electra 225 ---Rover bought the tooling for the 215CI Aluminum V8 engine not the V6, just my 2 cent correction.

[Guest]

Oops! You think I would know better, my dad being a land rover nut and all