Mystery Car Can You Pass The Test?

[edinmass]

Ok, This is not the idea I had in mind for making new interesting posts, but the photo was on my hard drive so I'll start here. This is an easy one.

1 What is the marque/year/series?

2 Who was the body builder?

3 I am sitting on the right, who is on the left?

Hint.... The car is not as easy to identify as it would seem. NO LOOKING IN THE MEMBER HANDBOOK

Edited January 1, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Buicksplus]

Based on the skirted fenders and hood vents, I would guess 1933 PA, probably a 12.

The body is odd, with the split windshield and suicide front doors, definitely some sort of custom body. I would guess LeBaron from the windshield, but I sure don't know for sure.

Sorry, don't know the guy, I'll bet others on the forum will know.

[edinmass]

Buicksplus...... There is something on the car that will enable a Pierce guy to know if it is a 8 or 12 .

[Guest]

The door handles should give away the identity of the custom body, but I can't place it right now. Looks like a nice original car.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Check out the turn signals. Pretty cool....

[Buicksplus]

Well, if I saw this car in person I would read the hub caps to know how many cylinders, but I can't see them all that well in this picture. You probably made it blurry on purpose! What else? I dunno, count the arrows in the quiver maybe.....I think it's a 12 'cause it has a custom body, I would think the owner would probably choose a 12 cylinder chassis...

Where is Jud Irig, he usually answers all these questions and more in the Bulletin.

[Guest]

1933 Pierce Arrow Model 1247 if it is on 142 in wheeel base. Its hard to judge wheel base from the picture if the wheel baseis 136 inches thenthe model is 1236. On the other hand if the wheel base is 137 inches then its a model 1242. The car is a seven passenger model there was one other varation of the seven passenger model that rode on a 147 inch wheel base. There where two offering of seven passenger models in the eight cylinder line on the 136 wheel base the model 836. I am going to take a wild guess and say body built Brunn.

[edinmass]

Hello, It's not on a 142 inch wb. I will post the correct answer in a few days. Thanks, ED

[R W Burgess]

Boy, Edin is sure teasing you guys with the answer. I love a mystery. W. Nice car Edin!

[Guest]

I know...I know ( this is partically a "quote" from various people over the years who have come up to admire my car.....)

"HEY...BUDDY...THAT SURE IS A NEAT CAR....WE HAD ONE JUST LIKE IT...YUP...SAME WHEELS...AND EVERYTHING.....1943 EDSEL PICK UP...YUP...SAME EVERYTHING. WELL...OURS WAS BRIGHT YELLOW, WITH SOME PRIMER SPOTS..BUT...IT WAS JUST LIKE THIS....HA HA..BET IT WILL PASS EVERYTHING BUT A GAS STATION......IS THAT REAL...OR IS IT A JAPANESE REPRODUCTION....... I HEAR THEY HAD REAL SMALL CYLINDERS...AND COULDNT GET OUT OF THEIR OWN WAY.....SAY...BUDDY...HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH......DID YOU GET IT NEW....OOOPSS....SORRY...BUDDY..DIDN'T REALIZE MY BELT BUCKLE WAS THAT SHARP....... ( sound of shot-gun bolt "racking-up"...and "click" as I take the trigger off "safety".......)

Pete Hartmann

[Guest]

I used trigonomic logic with a side of the hypotanoose to come up with a 147" wheelbase. A dedection being that said, I assumed it have 12 jugs under the hood which I proof positived by exposing the relief on the before mentioned cap of the hub. Hence model 1247. As to the builder, I expect this to be of noble vintage with a rich heritage. That be said, me think it not be a Duke, nor an Earl but due to the fact that the driver whose vision might be impaired since he is looking through an inverted "V" before him, I would say that its' nobility lies within the Baronhood. Not a west coast Baron mind you, but an east coast one. Since we are dealing with nobility I would have to choose primarily between English and French. English is out cause there's no body maker named "The Baron" so that leaves French so hence it's a LeBaron. The model year causes one to think, cause this car obviously has different parentage. It's mom and dad were obviously years apart, obviously. Dad being on top was probably born in the year of our lord, 1931. Dad has a body of broad rear shoulders looking back towards the previous generation of those who had come before him. Being the last of his line, he was out of the running when all those new younger streamliners came out, so dad just "hung around" waiting for his perfect match. As the years went by, I would say two, dad finds his mom, fresh off the assembly line with her new fancy front skirts. It's a match made in "Buffalo" ???? The two are joined in holy wedlock and of course the twenty five or so three quarter inch bolts help a bit. All this being said, I bet none of you noticed that beyond that inverted V of a windshield lies another shield of the flat variety which allows the rear passengers to make fun of the way the driver is driving without him hearin said offences. He can put on a show for those in the back but if nobody is in the back seat the driver has nothing to "show fur". But then there wasn't much to see in that first trip to Syracuse. Now that I've answered all the hard questions I'll try the easy ones. What make is it and who is on the running board? It's obviously a FORD, and that's Paul Newman and Robert Redford and I'm not going to tell you which one is which. You'll have to figure that one out for yourself, Bub!!

[edinmass]

Ok guys, It's a 1247 chassis, and has 12 pistons. The 1247 was made in 1933. Most of this car was NOT. Comments on the wood wheels, year and builder of the body, fenders, and front clip is what I am looking for. Any new comments? Ed Minnie II

[Guest]

ED: How about as you state a model 1247. The car is a seven passenger Town Car, body by the coach builder La Baron Carrossiers. This firm was founded in 1920 by Raymond Dietrick and Tom Hibbard. This firm offoices where located in New York City

[Guest]

ED: The car has a 147 in wheel base if I am correct.

[edinmass]

Yes Packard53, It's a 1933 Pierce Arrow 1247, But not a town car, Le Baron and Pierce called all limos Enclosed Drive Limousines. Can anybody tell me why a 1933 automobile Has a 1931 body, 1932 Hood grill and radiator, and 33 front fenders with custom 33 rear fenders? Hardware on the car is also 31-32-33 , the wood wheels were also 32 items. Thanks, Ed Minnie II

PS. It is not a rebody in the era..... it was built new this way.

[Buicksplus]

Ed:

What a great conversation piece this car is! Thanks for preserving it.

I would offer two explainations for the various years of the components on this car. One possibility is that the custom work started in 1931 but was delayed for various reasons and the customizer decided to update the fenders and other parts before it left his factory. The skirted fenders were a particularly important period change, and not many customers would want a "new" car delivered in 1933 without them, they would stand out like a sore thumb.

The other is simply that Pierce was not in the best financial shape then and being a very low production factory, used whatever components that were on the shop floor to put the car together. And those parts included parts from several production years.

Still don't have the faintest idea who made the body. I am thinking foreign for some reason, those door handles look un American to me!

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

[CBoz]

"There is something on the car that will enable a Pierce guy to know if it is a 8 or 12"

I'm probably too late to get in on the fun (no internet connection at my inlaws), but would the distinguishing feature be the number of hood louvers on each side? I count five -- maybe six -- on the driver's side. If six, perhaps one for each cylinder? Didn't Cadillac follow the same pattern?

Either way, what a stunning car.

[Guest]

Post deleted by Shawn Miller

[CBoz]

Geez, Pete, you don't know 'nuthin. In '43, Lincolns (which this car clearly is) had steel brake lines due to a shortage of copper because of WWII. In 1944 (still, technically, a Classic year), the brake lines went to bronze, then back to copper in 1945. Or don't you remember, Pete?

[edinmass]

Hi, the give away on the twelve engine is the grill shell and winterfront. Ed Minnie

[Shawn Miller]

OK so whats the story on this unusual car? And not meaning to expose my stupidity, but whats a winterfront?

Shawn

[edinmass]

Hi Shawn, The winterfront is also known as radiator shutters. The most common manufacturer of winterfronts was Pines and Harrison. The Car is a 1933 Pierce Arrow 1247 Salon Enclosed Drive Limousine by Le Baron. The body was Built in very late 30 or early 31 as a "batch" order from Pierce to LeBaron. The order consisted of 25 club sedans, 25 limos, 25 conv sedans, and 20 coupes. Not all of the cars ordered were built, and the ones that were built did not see the last chassis till 34. The first limo went to August Busch in St Louis. The last as far as anybody knows was this one, body number 10. It was built in late December 32 and put on a 33 chassis. The Body and exterrior hardware is 31, interrior hardware, uhpolstery, and dash is 33. Rear fenders are modified 31 with 31 left tail light and 33 right tailight! Yes, they don't match! Front fenders are 1933 series 1247. Hood, grill shell, and winterfront are 1932 salon series. The body is aluminum, and all doors are hung from the rear. It has dash controlled ride selection, free wheeling, and startex. Also has a hypoide rear end, while all other 33 series has worm drive. 33 was the first year for hydraulic valve lifters, and this car is engine #6, the earliest known 12 with the lifters. The car has 38,000 miles on it. It runs and drives great. It also has mechinical stewart warner power prakes like a P1. It gets 5 1/2 MPG down hill with a tail wind. Feel free to ask any other questions, Thanks, Ed

The photo is of August Busch with his 31 Series 41 eight Limo.

[Shawn Miller]

Wow! what an interesting story. Do you know who the originally owner was? I also didn't know that Pierce used the worm drive rear end.

Shawn

[Buicksplus]

Ed:

That car looks like it had a solid roof, is that the case? Not many cars had such a thing at that time. And where did those funky turn signals come from?

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

[edinmass]

Hi, the car has a regular soft top. The car was purchased new by the owner of Haberle Brewing, in Syarcuse Ny. Don't know if he knew August Busch or not but it's kind of a fun idea to toss around. I suppose with the Volstead Act being repealed he was expecting to come into a few dollars when production got started. It's got 38,000 miles on it now. I put 2000 on it the first year I had it. It didn't get out of the garage this year due to a number of problems (mine, not the cars). It's a 50's repaint done outside with a hoover vacuume sprayer, but the interrior is nice. It was at the 100 anniversary Pierce meet in New York and got a lot of attention as no one knew about the car in the Pierce club. As to the worm drive Pierce used it for a few years, but I have never owned a worm drive Pierce and can't comment on them. Thanks for all the interest, It was a lot of fun. If there are any more questions, feel free to ask. Ed Minnie II

[R W Burgess]

Ed, did you anwser the question of who is on the left in the first picture? Wayne

[Guest]

ED: Did the La Baron bodied PA of that 90 batch all have the bottom opening windows? I feel proud of myself for coming up with the coach builder on the second try.

[edinmass]

No, not all of the cars had the V windshield that opened. Only the limo and club sedan did. All the others had flat windshields. None of the coupes is know to have survived. One was last seen in 1952 but it probably went to the junk yard. Two convertible victorias have survived. Seven club sedans are accounted for, as well as about a dozen convertible sedans. This is the only seven passenger known to have made it. The person sitting next to me is Bob Sands, a long time and well known Pierce Arrow collector. The picture was taken the day I picked up the car from the pole barn it had been parked in for 30 years. Note the piece of paper on the grill.... it was a note from july 1970 saying the car had new antifreeze and the plugs had been pulled and oil was put in each hole. I stopped at his home and unloaded the car so I could get some insight into what it was. He also gave me a few names of Le Baron experts to call. I got the car home the next day and was going to park it for a year as I was busy with lots of other projects, but a friend came over while I was pushing it into the garage, he said....lets see if it will run. So I pullled a battery from my 31 Caddy, and then tossed the start lever(it has a startex) and it cranked for about 45 seconds.... it fired right up.....smoked a little bit......lifters pumped up... and it ran fine on the old gas. The car has been trouble free since then...I didn't even do a tune up. It idles smoother than my restored 36 V-12. Ed

[Shawn Miller]

There must have been a higher power smiling on you on this one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My faith in Pierces is certainly increased by this story. I guess I won't think twice about buying one that has been sitting. I passed up a 36 or 37 v12 sedan about 2 years ago. but the guy wanted lots of money. it was local. wonder if it is still there? hmm.

Shawn

[edinmass]

Shawn, If your ever out east stop by....I'll let you drive a couple V-12 PAs..... they are great cars...... check the stutz post later....will have photos up. Ed