Hello to the Riviera Forum - Riviera 1967

[Guest Buick Felix]

Hello,

 

I am new at the Riviera forum and and a new ROA member. My name is Peter (Stuttgart area / Germany) and last year at my family's USA trip the whole family (my wife, I and our 4 kids) fell in love with a 67' Riviera.

At our very first morning in Yucca Valley (Joshua Tree Park) we found this sleeping beauty in the backyard of my friend's house (please refer to picture). It turned out that this was the car of my friend's mother who was the only owner and bought it in 1967. She drove it for 79k miles until 1995. So my friend was thrilled to get this car up and running again and I got it for a very good price.

Now she (everybody calls the Buick "Old Lady") is in my garage. She takes care that we never get bored and never have to think about what to do with our money.

 

The good thing is: the engine (430) is running perfectly though the original carburetor is a bit touchy. Over the weekend we try an Edelbrock 1407 from a friend. Let's see. Transmission and steering seem to be ok, too. The headlights have already been changed to European standard.

 

Now there are some questions:

1. What's the appropriate power steering fluid?

2. We changed the engine oil with filter and filled 5 Qts. of oil in the engine (like the owner's manual tells) - but the dip stick tells us that we are about one inch above maximum level. 

3. Unfortunately we have climate automatic. I studied the whole manual and ordered a big amount of vacuum hoses. Flying to the moon was a piece of cake in comparison ;-). Any comments in getting this thing up and running again are highly appreciated (or ideas for converting to a manual mode)

4. A/C: there is still pressure on the system. But it is impossible to get R12 in Germany anymore. So I got a complete R134a-conversion kit from "Classic Auto Air" in Florida. If somebody has already installed this kit and could  send me a picture would be great.

 

So I think these are enough questions for the beginning.

 

Being an engineer with Mercedes life could have been easy if we would have fallen in love with an old Mercedes... ;-)

[Seafoam65]

                  Regarding question 2, sometimes the dipsticks read a little off, but usually this is caused by a dent in the bottom

of the oil pan displacing the area where the oil has to sit, thus raising the level on the stick.

                  Regarding the first question, the car takes plain old fashioned power steering fluid available at any parts store. this fluid

was used for decades on American cars. European and late model Asian cars use a slightly different formula.

                   Regarding question 3, you are right it would be easier to build a spacecraft to go to the moon than to troubleshoot this system, but your best bet is to study the diagnostic charts  and diagrams in the factory manual for this car and see if you can figure

out the mess........you did say you are an engineer?

                Regarding question 4, All that is involved in converting to R134A is to screw the R134A fittings onto the existing R12 service ports, then disconnect all the A/C lines after evacuating the system and flush out all the lines, the evaporator and condensor, install a new drier and remove the compressor and dump out all the oil, then reassemble everything after putting 11 ounces of R134A compatible refrigerant oil in the system. Put the same amount of new oil in the compressor pan as what you poured out, then

distribute the R134A oil among the other parts equally for a total of 11 ounces of oil. You will probably find that the compressor has

about 4 ounces of oil in it. Be sure to replace all O-rings that you disturb while flushing the oil out of the system. Then evacuate the 

A/C with a vacuum pump for about an hour to get all the air out of the system. Then close the valves on the gauges and remove the

vacuum pump and let it sit for a few hours. If the system is still holding 30 inches of vacuum after a few hours, you don't have any leaks and you can charge the system with R134A. The correct amount will be 10 per cent less than the amount of R12 called for

by Buick on the compressor label. Good luck with your Riviera!

[Guest Buick Felix]

Hello Seafoam,

 

I found an American ACDELCO power steering fluid at ebay Germany.Do you think this would be ok? (Please refer to picture)

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, Buick Felix said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Buick Felix said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Buick Felix said:

I am new at the Riviera forum and and a new ROA member. My name is Peter (Stuttgart area / Germany) and last year at my family's USA trip the whole family (my wife, I and our 4 kids) fell in love with a 67' Riviera.  Welcome and congratulations. 

At our very first morning in Yucca Valley (Joshua Tree Park) we found this sleeping beauty in the backyard of my friend's house (please refer to picture). It turned out that this was the car of my friend's mother who was the only owner and bought it in 1967. She drove it for 79k miles until 1995. So my friend was thrilled to get this car up and running again and I got it for a very good price.

Now she (everybody calls the Buick "Old Lady") is in my garage. She takes care that we never get bored and never have to think about what to do with our money.

 

The good thing is: the engine (430) is running perfectly though the original carburetor is a bit touchy. Over the weekend we try an Edelbrock 1407 from a friend. Let's see. Transmission and steering seem to be ok, too. The headlights have already been changed to European standard.

 

Now there are some questions:

1. What's the appropriate power steering fluid? Most folks use Automatic transmission fluid.  It expands so don't fill it to the brim.

2. We changed the engine oil with filter and filled 5 Qts. of oil in the engine (like the owner's manual tells) - but the dip stick tells us that we are about one inch above maximum level. I'd venture to say that until you start the engine there's no oil in the filter.  When the filter fills, check the dip stick again.  If the filter was full and you added 5 quarts, you're one quart over.  If both of these are done to specs, then check the part number on the dip stick against a reputable reference.

3. Unfortunately we have climate automatic. I studied the whole manual and ordered a big amount of vacuum hoses. Flying to the moon was a piece of cake in comparison ;-). Any comments in getting this thing up and running again are highly appreciated (or ideas for converting to a manual mode) Unfortunately being the operative word here; fun and games are just beginning.

4. A/C: there is still pressure on the system. But it is impossible to get R12 in Germany anymore. So I got a complete R134a-conversion kit from "Classic Auto Air" in Florida. If somebody has already installed this kit and could  send me a picture would be great.  If you're just converting the OE system, the instructions with the kit are pretty straight forward.  If you're retrofitting a complete unit - compressor, condenser, controls, etc - that's something totally different.  If you search the Buick forums, not just Riviera Owners, you'll see complete swaps pictured.

 

So I think these are enough questions for the beginning.

 

Being an engineer with Mercedes life could have been easy if we would have fallen in love with an old Mercedes... ;-)

 

[RoadShark]

4 hours ago, Buick Felix said:

She takes care that we never get bored and never have to think about what to do with our money.

 

 

LOL. 

[Seafoam65]

              As Ed stated, you can use transmission fluid , but the main reason I would never do that is that if you develop

a leak under the car, it is easier to decipher whether you have a transmission  or cooler line leak or a power steering leak as the

trans fluid is dyed red, and power steering fluid is honey colored. It is easy to tell power steering fluid from engine oil by the difference in smell, even though they are the same color. Trans fluid and power steering fluid smell the same so it is helpful

to have them be a different color. As for the dipstick issue, I made the assumption that you would know that you have to start

the engine to fill the filter and then the stick level goes down. You said you were an engineer for Mercedes so I am assuming

you are past the basics, NO? Regarding fluid colors.......I only use green coolant in my cars so I don't have to guess what the hell

it is when I have a coolant leak.....red coolant looks just like trans fluid. I despise Dexcool, and drain it out of my own cars shortly after

I buy them. The big big and I do mean BIG problem with red Dexcool coolant is that if it ever gets low due to a leak and oxygen

gets into the system from air in the system, the resulting chemical reaction turns the whole system to RED RIVER MUD in just a few days clogging up your radiator and heater core and it can take days to flush the mess out if it can even be done at all. If  I was

president of GM I would fire the guy who designed the stuff.

[1965rivgs]

On 9/29/2016 at 0:56 PM, Seafoam65 said:

                  Regarding question 2, sometimes the dipsticks read a little off, but usually this is caused by a dent in the bottom

of the oil pan displacing the area where the oil has to sit, thus raising the level on the stick.

                  Regarding the first question, the car takes plain old fashioned power steering fluid available at any parts store. this fluid

was used for decades on American cars. European and late model Asian cars use a slightly different formula.

                   Regarding question 3, you are right it would be easier to build a spacecraft to go to the moon than to troubleshoot this system, but your best bet is to study the diagnostic charts  and diagrams in the factory manual for this car and see if you can figure

out the mess........you did say you are an engineer?

                Regarding question 4, All that is involved in converting to R134A is to screw the R134A fittings onto the existing R12 service ports, then disconnect all the A/C lines after evacuating the system and flush out all the lines, the evaporator and condensor, install a new drier and remove the compressor and dump out all the oil, then reassemble everything after putting 11 ounces of R134A compatible refrigerant oil in the system. Put the same amount of new oil in the compressor pan as what you poured out, then

distribute the R134A oil among the other parts equally for a total of 11 ounces of oil. You will probably find that the compressor has

about 4 ounces of oil in it. Be sure to replace all O-rings that you disturb while flushing the oil out of the system. Then evacuate the 

A/C with a vacuum pump for about an hour to get all the air out of the system. Then close the valves on the gauges and remove the

vacuum pump and let it sit for a few hours. If the system is still holding 30 inches of vacuum after a few hours, you don't have any leaks and you can charge the system with R134A. The correct amount will be 10 per cent less than the amount of R12 called for

by Buick on the compressor label. Good luck with your Riviera!

Great advice however I have done many, many conversions including fleets of 150 units and more and we never dismantled the systems to remove the R12 type oil. We just used refrigerant oil which is compatible with both R12 and 134 oils. Never had any more issues with compressor lockup or cooling efficiency than was normal...and saved ALOT of unnecessary labor. Just my experience...

  Tom Mooney

[1965rivgs]

On 9/29/2016 at 7:08 PM, Seafoam65 said:

              As Ed stated, you can use transmission fluid , but the main reason I would never do that is that if you develop

a leak under the car, it is easier to decipher whether you have a transmission  or cooler line leak or a power steering leak as the

trans fluid is dyed red, and power steering fluid is honey colored. It is easy to tell power steering fluid from engine oil by the difference in smell, even though they are the same color. Trans fluid and power steering fluid smell the same so it is helpful

to have them be a different color. As for the dipstick issue, I made the assumption that you would know that you have to start

the engine to fill the filter and then the stick level goes down. You said you were an engineer for Mercedes so I am assuming

you are past the basics, NO? Regarding fluid colors.......I only use green coolant in my cars so I don't have to guess what the hell

it is when I have a coolant leak.....red coolant looks just like trans fluid. I despise Dexcool, and drain it out of my own cars shortly after

I buy them. The big big and I do mean BIG problem with red Dexcool coolant is that if it ever gets low due to a leak and oxygen

gets into the system from air in the system, the resulting chemical reaction turns the whole system to RED RIVER MUD in just a few days clogging up your radiator and heater core and it can take days to flush the mess out if it can even be done at all. If  I was

president of GM I would fire the guy who designed the stuff.

Lol....I still have my `96 Suburban, which we purchased new, which is approaching 350K miles. I believe this was either very early in the Dexcool conversion or it may have been the first year? The truck still has the original radiator in it, with the exception of having to reseal the side tanks once, and the core is clean as a whistle, like brand new, absolutely zero corrosion evident. The cooling system has been exposed to free air temporarily many times due to various causes such as a water pump, especially intake gaskets, etc...so my experience is totally different. We have used this coolant in fleet use with the same results. I have read about at least one horror story on the internet but, again, my experience has been totally different.

I strongly  suspect the creation of "red mud" in the cooling system is a combination of poor maintenance and mixing different types of antifreeze, old type with new.

If you think about exposure of the coolant to air this constantly occurs in the overflow tank. As the coolant expands into the tank and is drawn back into the cooling system the coolant which is in the overflow tank is exposed to air because the overflow tank is not pressurized and is exposed to fresh air via the overflow hose. The exposure is less than a top tank which is filled with air but in time I would think the exposure significant enough to cause issues. Again, not in my experience...

 Tom