New 1939 Special Torque Ball Set Up, Need a Little Help

[Bob H]

I have a new torque ball for my 1939 Special and can't find any info on the initial set up. There is information in the shop manual and in Motors but they describe how to adjust a torque ball that has been in service rather than setting it up initially. 1939 owners and fans know that the '39 torque ball is unique and was used one year only, this is part of the challenge of owning one of these fine cars. The point is, information for other years simply doesn't apply.

 

The replacement torque ball I am using is NOS and the original parts it will be mated with are in excellent condition. I have two new shim packs. When I trial fit the parts loosely in the order they go the shim gap is 0.25", way wider than the original .075" thick shim stack. So I assembled the parts in order on my hydraulic press and leaned on them. At the point where the press was quite tight the shim gap was 0.150", nearly all the shims in both new packs. I let the pressure off the press and the torque ball assembly "relaxed" to a gap of 0.175". I think that the "tight" setting might be too tight and damage the fabric on the ball and the relaxed setting is probably too loose. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

I am attaching some photos of the parts and my process in what is probably random order. Thanks! Bob H

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Bob H (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

I am trying to remember mine.  I think the spacers went between the tube itself and the cup, not between the cup and the ball.  My memory is vague though. 

 

What you are squeezing is how they wear.  Over time they need may need to be tightened as they loosen up.  When installing you have to get it tight, but not too tight.

Edited May 16, 2016 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[sleeve-valve]

Bob:
I replaced the torque ball on my 39 Special a few years ago. I used a rebuilt one from Bob's that was coated in rubber, not an NOS fabric one, I'm sure either is fine. I initially set it up with the same thickness of shims that was in there before disassembly, reasoning being that was likely what was put in at the factory. It seemed way too tight to me, by hand I could not move it at all. I just kept putting in more shims until I got what seemed like a snug fit with no play but with effort I could move the pieces relative to each other. I figured it was because the rubber coated torque ball came out thicker than original but who knows for sure. I think the snug but moveable fit is ok because it has been over 3 years now and it seems fine to me. PM me and I can send you my phone number if you would like to chat. Dave

[Bob H]

Dave:

Thanks, you have experienced the problem and made observations that are similar to mine. Do you have any idea how thick your shim stack ended up? I have the luxury of having the torque tube torn apart and being able to isolate the procedure. Measuring and record keeping are sort of how I tackle things. Unless someone with more information checks in I am going to shim it between the 0.150" tight gap and the 0.175" relaxed. I'll assemble the torque ball without the driveline  and, as you did, try to fine tune it by "feel". Thanks again for sharing your solution. Bob H

 

[Guest]

Greetings

             When I assembled my 39 drive line I read the service text that says tight enuff so the unsupported front shaft will not fall on its own when bolts are evenly tightened. Did the checking with complete drive shaft assembled but not installed. Seems good so far. Original cloth lining that book says no grease, oops, greased it, still seems OK. Bought another nos cup for backup. Bob's pretty proud of his, prolley with good reason. Good luck. After finally getting a quiet 3.9 rear, I'm cleaning the 3.6 I found to try to keep up with the freeway crazies! Are the reproduction torque cups from Bobs installed dry or greased?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Guest
Dim bulb (see edit history)

[sleeve-valve]

Bob:
I did not record the thickness I ended up using. I think I ended up using all the shims that came in the repro shim kit plus one or two of the originals I removed. The more I put in there the more unsure I became but it turned out ok. Dave

[sleeve-valve]

2carb40:
I believe the rebuilt torque cups from Bobs go in dry. I hope so anyway because I think that's how I did it!

[Guest]

Thanx 4 getting back. Last year I had time to drive back and forth to off site storage, so not to much stress on the car that way.

[39BuickEight]

2 hours ago, sleeve-valve said:

2carb40:
I believe the rebuilt torque cups from Bobs go in dry. I hope so anyway because I think that's how I did it!

I did mine the same way.

[Bob H]

Okay everybody, thanks for your support! The consensus appears to be assemble the joint neither too tight nor too loose but, in Goldilocks fashion, just right. How you get there seems to depend on each individuals ingenuity. I have separated the torque ball dilemma onto two parts. First, the fit or preload on the ball, and second, aligning the assembly in the car's frame. The first we have discussed here and the second I intend to try a little different approach. I have determined and marked the frame centerline below where the torque ball mount goes. Next I will assemble and align the front tube, the rear tube  and the torque ball assembly without the drivelines or differential. This way I am not fighting the weight and bulk of the entire rear end assembly. Once I have the alignment spot on then I can tear down the empty tubes and reassemble the driveline and rear end. Of course I have the luxury of having the rear end torn apart. At least it may be an opportunity to learn how this unusual driveline joint and support should fit. If you are interested, I could post my progress with this experiment. Thanks again, Bob H

[Guest gmorse]

I will add my recent experience. I installed the ball without any "measurement" . As the shop manual states, the front shaft should just drop slowly by itself (from its own weight).. After several tries, I got to this condition, and put it all back together. So far, so good.

Just my two cents worth.

Gary

[Bob H]

What shop manual has the "slow drop" test for proper torque ball clearance? Bob H

[Dynaflash8]

I am away from home, but I have both the shop manual and the abridged service bulletins.  I'm not sure which one it is in, but the description says that it should not be immovable, nor should it fall to the floor easily, but it should be adjusted so that is very slowly moves toward the floor.  Over the years I've replaced several.  Going back to 1967 when I knew nothing of NOS parts availability, we discovered the torque ball had all the rubber worn off the bottom to the metal.  My mechanic simply turned the thing upside down and reinstalled it.  That worked okay for a number of years.  However, after I rebuilt the engine in 1969 I did experience a vibration.  I had a vibration for a lot of years, even after a new torque ball as I recall, but it seemed to go away on its own after a new clutch or two.

[Jim Addington]

Hi all,

I am a proud owner of my 1939 Buick Series 41 4 door.

It is mostly vintage with some restoration. My current issue is 

to find a workable torque ball.  I have tried Bobs and others with no luck .

Could anyone help me with info on where to find one? I drive it here in Florida

and do local car shows. Any help is appreciated.

Jim Addington    jama9980@gmail.com

[Bob H]

Jim: When I was chasing parts for my 1939 Special driveline I bought quite a number of hard to find bits from BCA member Pat Riley. However, at my last parts request he told me that he had sold all his parts to Pete Philips. Don't know if Pete Philips is offering the stuff for sale or using it himself, might be worth a try. I have a well-used torque ball that could be used as a last resort if nothing else comes up. Also have another 1939 parts source that I will contact for you. Bob H

[Jim Addington]

Thanks Bob, 

I hope to find a good used or possibly a new one. I have found a very used one, but it's pretty ragged. Any help is appreciated. 

Jim A ?